Duel40a (May 27, 2015)

[AlexMax]

I noticed just one person can select the rand pick to choose it?

That is intentional. I didn't want to add a second point where a standoff was possible, and it makes "skips" count that much more in my stats.

[AlexMax]

Allright. In addition to fixing the bug - I think that I have enough information to give you guys an idea of what maps I'm adding and removing.

REMOVE
- BRIT11 MAP01
- BRIT11 MAP05
- DWANGO6 MAP01
- LAZARUS1J MAP01
- STYXDM01 MAP02

UPDATE
- EONDM1F MAP14

ADD
+ ARGDUELM MAP02
+ COLL_N_DEVI_07 MAP02
+ DWELLER2 MAP02
+ GREENWAR MAP16
+ LAZARUS1J MAP16
+ SIPOOMA

You'll notice that I actually have more ADD's than REMOVE's. I'm undecided about what to do.

- If I remove six maps instead of five, I can't decide between removing Brit10 MAP07, Exodus1on1 or Exec MAP03.
- If I only add five maps instead of six, I can't decide between not adding Argduel MAP02, Greenwar and Lazarus MAP16.

[Combinebobnt]

I recommend removing exec map03.

[Galactus]

I recommend removing exec map03.

Seconded. Keep brit10 map07, I like that map.

[capodecima]

I agree with all maps for removing, but dont add dweller map 02, one dweller map in pack is enough i think. Also i think lazarus map 01 is better than 16.

[ZZYZX]

I don't really understand why isn't Eon map14 removed yet, but instead updated and kept around. It's played by like 3.5 skilled players, disliked or just not picked by all other skilled players and completely unplayable for everyone else.

On topic:
Brit10 MAP07 > Exec MAP03 > Exodus1on1
Greenwar MAP16 > Lazarus MAP16 > Argduel MAP02 (wtf?)

[Kara Kurt]

Why remove Brit10 MAP07? Woah.

[Nati46]

I don't really understand why isn't Eon map14 removed yet, but instead updated and kept around. It's played by like 3.5 skilled players, disliked or just not picked by all other skilled players and completely unplayable for everyone else.

On topic:
Brit10 MAP07 > Exec MAP03 > Exodus1on1

Other way around.

[AlexMax]

Duel32f is released.

At the end of the day, I decided to not add Argentum's map. I'll save it for Duel48. Unless a bug is found, I expect this to be the final version for a while.

[Fsn76]

I played some duels on the new maps today with Ch0wW. Here is my opinions, starting first with maps i think they are good to be in Duel32. I will suggest too some maps you can maybe add in Duel32.
============================================================
Coll_n_devi :
This map is nice balanced. Nice to play rushy or safe.

Eyedea :
A perfect map for play very fast. I just love maps, where you don't always spawn on a ssg and where you can take the control of them.

Eondm1f map05 :
I think this map is one of my favorite map in Duel32. A total pleasure to play on it. Can take a nice spawnkill control on the middle, without to be exaggerate too. 5/5 rustking.

Class219:
A little moo2d style. Pretty map, its playable.

============================================================
Now the maps who i think they don't have their place on this wad are:
============================================================

Exposed:
A room in a room in a room in a room. To many wall, and a big place near the bfg where nobody play here. Its just focused on ssg.

Eondm1f map14:
3 long corridor, 2 inside, 1 inside maked it not just large, but long too. Making this map easy to get some frags with random rocket frag on their corridor. Safe game make this maps veryyyyy long to play and play rushy make you head hurt in all wall of this map. Should be very nice to play on FFA anyway.

Dweller 2 map02:
Ah, this map. I think this one don't have his place on Duel32. Let's take a example of two maps with the same style. Judas and Dweller 2 map11. Both maps use to much height differences. Its nice to play this style on a small map. We can find this feeling on dw2m2 but the problem is this is to big for playing with this height difference. To many dark corner and a place when you can camp bitching when you take the bfg teleport.

============================================================
Some maps you can maybe pick for the next version of Duel32
============================================================

32in24 map10:
I played a tourney in the past on this map, it was a total pleasure. All weapons of this map are usefull. I really suggest this map, you should take a look!

King2:
I think this map was added in a old version of Duel32, correct me if not. But this map is maybe better or the same level of King1. Should be cool to saw it again in the duel scene.

Lazarus Map12:
A fucking nice balanced map by a great mapper. ( GhouSlayeR )

MancerX Map01:
Very oldschool style. I had some old intense game on this map.

============================================================

I hope my feedback was clear and understandable. I'm sorry for my bad english and i hope to see more people with their opinion on this topic. Im glad to help you Alexmax for testing maps and more if its needed :)

[AlexMax]

Here are Duel32f stats as of August 2nd, 2014:

http://tinyurl.com/duel32-maps

These are now arranged into a Google Docs spreadsheet. All of the categories are annotated now, so you know exactly what column represents what. You can also make a copy of the spreadsheet for doing your own sorting and filtering.

It's been around 7 months since the last release, so it might be time to update the WAD soon. Stay tuned, you might not have to put up with dweller2 map02 for too much longer...

[Kara Kurt]

Alexmax:

You can get up on the upper side faster by jumping and without using the ladder but in OS that shouldn't affect the gameplay; you'd have to hit the switch then use the ladder to get the Plasma and you should be able to take it.

---

Actually D2DUEL5 fits more for oldschoolism since it has less verticality.

[AlexMax]

After a long time on the back burner, I'm probably going to be doing another release soonish.

REMOVE
Coll_n_Devi MAP02
Dweller2 MAP02
EonDM MAP14
Eyedea
Greenwar MAP16
Lazarus1J MAP16

POSSIBLE REMOVE
Boo
Exec MAP03
Exodus1on1

DEFINITE ADD
Eyedea_ (MAP02 of that WAD)
Skirmish MAP02
Styx8 (Yep, it's back!)
Uptight Deathmatch MAP08 (Modified)

POSSIBLE ADD
Chill3 MAP07
Exec MAP08
Skirmish MAP01
Skirmish MAP15
Uptight Deathmatch MAP31 (Modified)
Uptight Deathmatch MAP32

If you're wondering what I use to determine what stays and what goes, it's part gut intuition, but partly based on statistics I collect on my NJ server, which you can view here.

If you feel strongly about any of the Possible Add's, now's the time to say so. I also wouldn't mind adding back some of the older maps that were taken out of earlier versions, especially considering that the older maps were taken out before my new Random implementation (which is IMHO a much better measure of how good a map is compared to other measures). If you're having trouble remembering what some of the old maps were, they're visible in the various tabs of the statistics linked above.

[Watermelon]

Boo
Exec MAP03
Exodus1on1

Is there a reason these are up for removal? I can understand Exec cause it feels more like a DM map with 2 GA's and tons of item spam, though Boo is a solid ZDDL map. Exodus always played good (IMO) and was in a few duel tournies. Did stats show cold reception to those two?



Is there a reason Sipooma isn't on the axe list? I'm surprised if that's played a lot.

Lazarus1J MAP01 would be cool to see again, though I think we'd want some more 'yes' votes.

[AlexMax]

Boo
Exec MAP03
Exodus1on1

Is there a reason these are up for removal? I can understand Exec cause it feels more like a DM map with 2 GA's and tons of item spam, though Boo is a solid ZDDL map. Exodus always played good (IMO) and was in a few duel tournies. Did stats show cold reception to those two?

Map popularity kind of plays into it, but what I also take particular note of is the number of times a map was skipped in Random select. You're basically giving players a choice between a map that they know or blindly picking any other map in the WAD, and despite the fact that both players have to vote to skip a map, some maps have north of 50% skip percentages.

It's not the only thing I look at. A map like Eyedea has a very low played count, but you'll notice it's not skipped very often at all, which tells me that the map is allright, just not very well known. A map like DOOM2 MAP01 is skipped very often, but is still quite popular. Boo is neither - it's the sixth least played map in the pack (seven if you count BFG5M1) and the fourth most skipped map in Random. Exodus1on1 fares only slightly better, though part of me wonders if I should special-case that map to use Ultra-Violence ammo counts so there's a little less BFG spam.

Is there a reason Sipooma isn't on the axe list? I'm surprised if that's played a lot.

Sipooma is middle-of-the-pack in both popularity and skip percentage. This is why having data is good, hunches can sometimes be misleading.

Lazarus1J MAP01 would be cool to see again, though I think we'd want some more 'yes' votes.

Some other maps I wouldn't mind bringing back are any of the BRIT11 maps, UDM3 MAP03 or XFIRE5. BRIT11 maps and Lazarus MAP01 were taken out because they were so rarely picked, but looking back at my stats I feel UDM3 and XFIRE5 were taken out rather arbitrarily.

Also, I need a better secret map. The old DUEL16 secret was pretty fun, but I feel like it's a waste of a map slot when it's just SHOOT 2.0. Still, BRITISH9 MAP01 and BFGD5M1 almost never got any play, so I feel like I need to put SOMETHING interesting in it.

[AlexMax]

It's about time.

Lots of new maps, most of which are from our community. Lots of old favorites that have returned because why the hell not. A new secret map that will make you groan. The usual. Except this time it's 40 maps, not 32.

I am hosting test sessions for a first release candidate of duel40a. It's a release candidate due to the massive amount of changes that have gone on, plus I'm using a batch build system for the first time. Please do not host the release candidate on your own servers. I would also not recommend recording any demos with it either. If nothing is broken after a few days, the release candidate will be renamed to the final release., and you can feel free to re-host and record demos.

REMOVED

• COLL_N_DEVI_07_1 MAP02
• DWELLER2 MAP02
• EONDM MAP14
• EXEC MAP03
• LAZARUS1J MAP16

UPGRADED

• EONDM MAP05
• EYEDEA

ADDED

• Chill3 MAP07 by Rottking
• Geography Class Warfare by HeavenWraith
• Uptight Deathmatch MAP08 by Shane
• Uptight Deathmatch MAP31 by X-Ray
• Skirmish MAP01 by Argentum
• Skirmish MAP02 by Argentum
• Doomkid's Duel Zones MAP01 by Doom_kid

RETURNING

• BRIT11 MAP01 by Danny Lancashire
• BRIT11 MAP05 by Stuart McKendrick
• LAZARUS1J MAP01 by Chaindude
• STYX8 by Richard Jaspers
• UDM3 MAP03 by deathz0r
• XFIRE5 by Lee Szymanski

[Catastrophe]

REMOVED
COLL_N_DEVI_07_1 MAP02

THANK GOD

[ZZYZX]

UPGRADED

• EYEDEA

This is not an upgrade. To quote myself.

<Siferah> you do realize that your censored new eyedea plays like udmx
<Siferah> and looks like udmx
<Siferah> and everything like udmx
<Siferah> while the old eyedea was more like fuloser

So basically I liked both versions, but its not a valid upgrade, its just one distinct map replaced with another distinct map. The difference right now is as big as d5m1 vs d2m1. Yes, they share half of the map pixel-to-pixel, yet the second half changes everything.

Now for the new maps

ADDED

• Chill3 MAP07 by Rottking
• Uptight Deathmatch MAP08 by Shane
• Uptight Deathmatch MAP31 by X-Ray
• Skirmish MAP01 by Argentum
• Skirmish MAP02 by Argentum

Playable maps

• Doomkid's Duel Zones MAP01 by Doom_kid

Boring map.

• Geography Class Warfare by HeavenWraith

Unplayable map. Like, completely. Jwar claims that it requires special tactics. I think it's just very bad.

...eon14 removed... :(

Overall impression — 9/10 way better than current Duel32

[AlexMax]

I have fixed an issue with improperly looping music in UPTIGHTDM UPTDM31, but I don't think that it's worth cutting a new release candidate just for that one change. However, that change does mean that release candidate 1 will not be the same as duel40a's final release.

UPGRADED

• EYEDEA

This is not an upgrade. To quote myself.

<Siferah> you do realize that your censored new eyedea plays like udmx
<Siferah> and looks like udmx
<Siferah> and everything like udmx
<Siferah> while the old eyedea was more like fuloser

So basically I liked both versions, but its not a valid upgrade, its just one distinct map replaced with another distinct map. The difference right now is as big as d5m1 vs d2m1. Yes, they share half of the map pixel-to-pixel, yet the second half changes everything.

Most players who I ran the upgrades past vastly prefer the new version of the map to the old one. It's much easier to move around in, the spawns are more balanced, and the gimmick of BFG denial actually works in this version. I know you prefer the old one, but you were literally the only Zandronum player who did, the only others being a few Odamex-only players (maybe Dragon did too, I forgot). Besides, I don't think it would be a good look - it might give the appearance that I'm playing favorites with my own maps if I include both.

<Siferah> you do realize that your censored new eyedea plays like udmx

That's not how that word works.

[Slosumo]

The new eyedea is better for me. As Alex said, is easier to move around. Just my opinion though.