All Out War 2.2 - r050518 Released

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
Lollipop
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#61

Post by Lollipop » Tue May 30, 2017 12:50 pm

That is a thought I have had as well, I think it would facilitate a higher degree of cooperation. I just wonder how to implement this in a way that would function reliably and without stutters or the like.

I understand and approve of fixing problems first though. Adding cool stuff wouldn't do much if the core gameplay has issues.

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#62

Post by jdagenet » Tue May 30, 2017 2:33 pm

Ivan wrote:
fr blood wrote:I don't know if it's codable but something very amazing would be some sort of mechs having more than 1 place inside(a driver, a gunner, some passengers), I'm pretty sure that it would improve the gameplay and also brings something original.
Great idea to be honest but I'm sure jason wants to fix the more glaring bugs and balance problems first, from what I heard at least.
Precisely.
We had a pretty decent game yesterday that allowed people to discover new bugs that I was able to fix. So yeah at the moment, new content that can greatly alter the existing gameplay isn't exactly a priority, but may be sometime in the future and I'll definitely keep the ideas in mind.
<Dynamo_>uh
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#63

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Tue May 30, 2017 8:03 pm

I've tossed the idea around for some sort of transport mech to Jason before. Everyone generally has good ideas for a transport mech but that's just what it is: an idea. I'm certain if someone actually did the hard work of coding it and submitting it, Jason would likely add it to the mod.

Btw, whatever happened to Riclo's map? Any updates?

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#64

Post by Catastrophe » Tue May 30, 2017 9:17 pm

Ru5tK1ng wrote:I've tossed the idea around for some sort of transport mech to Jason before. Everyone generally has good ideas for a transport mech but that's just what it is: an idea. I'm certain if someone actually did the hard work of coding it and submitting it, Jason would likely add it to the mod.

Btw, whatever happened to Riclo's map? Any updates?
Old tortoise was literally a transport mech. The old code is still there if he wishes to convert it.

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#65

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:34 am

Riclo wrote:
jdagenet wrote: [spoiler]Image
This entire room is a meme, there's literally no reason to go here. Connect it to somewhere else so players have at least two ways in and out.[/spoiler]
I kept that in on purpose so that it's not just a long hallway which would be really easy to defend. It's pretty much useless for red team aside from turrets but it's good for the enemy because of the meds and cover; I'll make the elevator already lowered at start and I'll make it so that you can drop down to the left from there.

I'll see what I can do with connecting in the rooms in a way that's balanced but I think removing the whole cave isn't a good idea. I'll most likely do what you suggested in the first pic

It looks like you're able to see the node problems when GZdoom builder. I'll fix whatever I can find but I'll probably need you to fix anything that's left once the map is done since I can't see any of that with Doom Builder
It's been a while, but any updates on the map?

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#66

Post by Riclo » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:18 pm

Ru5tK1ng wrote: It's been a while, but any updates on the map?
Nah I haven't really touched it since the last update, I might as well finish it though since it's already like 90% done anyway. Here's the current changelog although there isn't much there

[spoiler]- Made all the lifts start from the floor and lift upwards, with the exception of the one to the left of mid-field and at the end of red base's tunnels for balance reasons
- Added an exit to the front of red base through the room that the lift in the tunnels leads to (Not the one at the top end)
- Changed the midspace texture to a railing by the red base's refinery so it's no longer a dead end
- Lowered the midgrate texture at red base where the stairs are so it's now possible to jump over them, and made it possible to drop down to the sides for more manuverablility in that area[/spoiler]
I'll try to have it done before the end of the month

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#67

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:24 pm

Sounds good hopefully this new version plays well. The map is detailed and looks great; Jason approved?

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#68

Post by Riclo » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:10 pm

Okay I've tested the map online and everything seems fine so far. Download link: allfearthesentinel.net/download?file=tenementsaowriclojuly21st.wad

Changelog:
[spoiler]- Made all the lifts start from the floor and lift upwards, with the exception of the one to the left of mid-field and at the end of red base's tunnels for balance reasons
- Added an exit to the front of red base through the room that the lift in the tunnels leads to (Not the one at the top end)
- Changed the midspace texture to a railing by the red base's refinery so it's no longer a dead end
- Lowered the midgrate texture at red base where the stairs are so it's now possible to jump over them, and made it possible to drop down to the sides for more manuverablility in that area
- Put one-sided lines at the middle construction where the powerup crate is to help with lag
- Connected the two sniper camp places at the entrance of red base with a 3D floor, made a groove in the floor for turrets at the window, and made a hallway at the right room connecting it to the nearby room to the north-east
- Made the two areas at the end of the caves on the left side less bottle-necked
- Put more physical objects in both bases and detailed them more
- Connected the cave area on the blue side in-between the tiberium field and the exit to the blue refinery with the flower area
- Connected where the two big colored circles are in the silvery place (to the right of mid-field) with the initial hallway
- At the left of mid-field, where blue base's cave extends into the building, I made it possible to drop down from there
- Added more detail, especially in areas where you can't see much so the extra stuff doesn't hinder performance
- Fixed as many HOM/node errors that I could find by looking around the map in-game[/spoiler]
One of the things I had thought alot about was connecting the two following rooms circled in yellow:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
I kept these unconnected though for the following reasons: for one it would make the entire area on the left side (the cave area) obsolete. There'd pretty much be no point in going over there except for a more roundabout way of getting into the enemy base, and even then I don't think it would offer that much of an advantage. Another reason is because I think it would also make the whole area on the right pretty much obsolete as well (The silvery place) because there'd be no reason to go over there anymore. Take a look at blue base where the green circle is. This route offers a pretty quick way to get from the shaded yellow area over to mid-field or even to red base, without having to go through the entire cave on the left. If the two rooms were connected where I circled in yellow, there'd be no reason to go here because the other route would be much more efficient. The same goes for the red side as well. One last reason is because it would change up how mid-field plays too much. The easiest and only way to get from one base to the other, without going through the areas all the way on the left and right, is where the blue circles are-- everything is funneled through here. Having a connected path where the yellow circles are would make those small areas prone to heavy traffic since it's such a fast way to get around the blue-circled funnel area, and because it's so fast, it might overwhelm players trying to defend. This also refers back to the two previous reasons-- there's no point in taking the time to go to the right or all the way to the left if you can just go through these areas. So that's why I kept them unconnected. To make the silvery room in the bottom-left yellow circle have a use though, I changed the two stimpacks to two medkits, so it's useful now for health and the windows offers a good viewpoint to see other players in mid-field or elsewhere in that area.

I see where Jason and others are coming from though, by connecting these rooms, getting rid of the cave area, and then making the silvery section on the right just as efficient as the left side. I'd rather not do that though because I think it's gonna make the map too small, and we already have plenty of maps like that. This way we can have a non-mech map that (hopefully) won't turn into a spammy super fast-paced clusterfuck that maps like AOW08 turn into with really high player counts (26+)

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#69

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:59 am

That's pretty cool you managed to finish it; Jason is a big fan. Hopefully it can be tested online during the weekend with a good number of players.

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#70

Post by jdagenet » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:53 pm

Riclo wrote:Stuff
Alright my little Riclo, I have a task for you...

Load up your map in Software. I don't think I need to say anything else rofl...
By the way, what node builder do you use? I've never seen so many node errors in a map before, but whatever it is just throw it away and get you a nice state of the art ZDoom node builder and rebuild those nodes nice and strong.

Oh and the big door in front of blue base that opens up is upper unpegged -- that's a no-no.
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - RC1

#71

Post by jdagenet » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:52 am

Gonna go ahead and publicly announce RC1, which includes various bug fixes to maps, weapons, and gameplay mechanics as well as some balance changes.
Here's the changelog:
[spoiler]

Code: Select all

================================================================================
===== Changelog: May 31st, 2017
================================================================================
+	Reworked Karasawa.
-	Tiberium Autorifle projectiles buffed.
-	Bouncing grenades from the Grenade Launcher use DOOMBOUNCE now.
-	Jetpack Troopers can now pick up items when their jetpacks are enabled.
-	Armor increase from Team boosts will now carry over to your class if you didn't have a class at the time of the boost.
-	Players will no longer get disarm crate if they have the TimeGun or Karasawa.
~	Sniper Rifle can no longer be bugged on Research Terminals.
~	Turrets can now be placed on stairs and platforms.
~	Chemical Turrets on the Blue team were displaying their wrong sprites.
~	Instant Juggernaut could be aquired from Powerup Crates on light mech maps.
~	Timed C4 and Remote C4 explosion flames no longer hurt other players on your team.
~	Proximity Mines were disarming in a near instant.
~	Proximity Mines could be disarmed with Flashbangs.
~	One of the Purchase Terminals on AOW03 would not let its desired team go back to the spawn room.
~	The Blue Barracks on AOW03 was not being colored to red when it was detroyed.
~	MCT's on AOW03 and AOW12 now display a blue screen when the appropiate terminal is destroyed.
~	Fixed node and ladder issues on AOW10.
~	Players can no longer obtain "infinite" jetpack fuel.
~	Chronobow is now refilled upon entering the spawn room.
~	Fixed an issue where ejecting from a mech on the repair pad would result in the player going over their max health.
~	Repair Gun would not be given to you if you went over rank Major.
~	Capacity increase for frags/flashbangs would be forgotten if you went over rank Colonel.
~	If one team had their Refinery destroyed, the opposing team could not refine even if they still had their Refinery.
~	Some of the more detailed buildings would make it difficult to place geometry near the doors.
[/spoiler]
The Karasawa has also been completely reworked into a chain lightning weapon that can bounce from one target to the next in a single shot, so it should be a lot better to use now. The weapon could stand for a bit more testing and balance changes, so for right now, don't assume the weapon is completely finished...

In recent testings we also found some issues that needed fixing sooner than later so I'm also releasing a small hotfix for those as well. It basically contains a Karasawa balance and a few small bug fixes.
<Dynamo_>uh
<Dynamo_>did you just take the thread away
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

#72

Post by Ivan » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:25 pm

Riclo wrote:Okay I've tested the map online and everything seems fine so far. Download link: allfearthesentinel.net/download?file=tenementsaowriclojuly21st.wad

Changelog:
[spoiler]- Made all the lifts start from the floor and lift upwards, with the exception of the one to the left of mid-field and at the end of red base's tunnels for balance reasons
- Added an exit to the front of red base through the room that the lift in the tunnels leads to (Not the one at the top end)
- Changed the midspace texture to a railing by the red base's refinery so it's no longer a dead end
- Lowered the midgrate texture at red base where the stairs are so it's now possible to jump over them, and made it possible to drop down to the sides for more manuverablility in that area
- Put one-sided lines at the middle construction where the powerup crate is to help with lag
- Connected the two sniper camp places at the entrance of red base with a 3D floor, made a groove in the floor for turrets at the window, and made a hallway at the right room connecting it to the nearby room to the north-east
- Made the two areas at the end of the caves on the left side less bottle-necked
- Put more physical objects in both bases and detailed them more
- Connected the cave area on the blue side in-between the tiberium field and the exit to the blue refinery with the flower area
- Connected where the two big colored circles are in the silvery place (to the right of mid-field) with the initial hallway
- At the left of mid-field, where blue base's cave extends into the building, I made it possible to drop down from there
- Added more detail, especially in areas where you can't see much so the extra stuff doesn't hinder performance
- Fixed as many HOM/node errors that I could find by looking around the map in-game[/spoiler]
One of the things I had thought alot about was connecting the two following rooms circled in yellow:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
I kept these unconnected though for the following reasons: for one it would make the entire area on the left side (the cave area) obsolete. There'd pretty much be no point in going over there except for a more roundabout way of getting into the enemy base, and even then I don't think it would offer that much of an advantage. Another reason is because I think it would also make the whole area on the right pretty much obsolete as well (The silvery place) because there'd be no reason to go over there anymore. Take a look at blue base where the green circle is. This route offers a pretty quick way to get from the shaded yellow area over to mid-field or even to red base, without having to go through the entire cave on the left. If the two rooms were connected where I circled in yellow, there'd be no reason to go here because the other route would be much more efficient. The same goes for the red side as well. One last reason is because it would change up how mid-field plays too much. The easiest and only way to get from one base to the other, without going through the areas all the way on the left and right, is where the blue circles are-- everything is funneled through here. Having a connected path where the yellow circles are would make those small areas prone to heavy traffic since it's such a fast way to get around the blue-circled funnel area, and because it's so fast, it might overwhelm players trying to defend. This also refers back to the two previous reasons-- there's no point in taking the time to go to the right or all the way to the left if you can just go through these areas. So that's why I kept them unconnected. To make the silvery room in the bottom-left yellow circle have a use though, I changed the two stimpacks to two medkits, so it's useful now for health and the windows offers a good viewpoint to see other players in mid-field or elsewhere in that area.

I see where Jason and others are coming from though, by connecting these rooms, getting rid of the cave area, and then making the silvery section on the right just as efficient as the left side. I'd rather not do that though because I think it's gonna make the map too small, and we already have plenty of maps like that. This way we can have a non-mech map that (hopefully) won't turn into a spammy super fast-paced clusterfuck that maps like AOW08 turn into with really high player counts (26+)
Hey man jason wanted me to tell you that he's a big fan of yours and well there's a bit of a problem with your map. Jason has a huge crush on Hell themed maps, if he could marry them he would, it's that bad. So, he wants you to turn the map into a hell themed one and he said he'd add it if you did it! I think that's a golden deal man don't miss on it.
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - RC1

#73

Post by Catastrophe » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:19 pm

jdagenet wrote: The Karasawa has also been completely reworked into a chain lightning weapon that can bounce from one target to the next in a single shot, so it should be a lot better to use now. The weapon could stand for a bit more testing and balance changes, so for right now, don't assume the weapon is completely finished...
You actually got it to work? Nicely done.

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - RC2

#74

Post by jdagenet » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:12 am

RC2 is out, here's the changelog:
Spoiler: (Open)
================================================================================
===== Changelog: October 12th, 2017
================================================================================
+ New map: Tenements (By: Riclo500).
+ Players are awarded Enhanced Timed C4 when they're Officer rank or higher (Imported from 2.1).
* Enhanced Timed C4's behave the same way as 2.1's, in that they take a bit longer to disarm and they do more damage.
- Grenade/Flashbang/Selfheal/Remote C4 shortcuts will always return back to the weapon you had out.
- Empty Grenades/Flashbangs wont clutter your inventory.
- Nail Machinegunner's altfire is now instant.
- The Flamethrower isn't so devastating.
- The Chemical Sprayer has been buffed to be on par with the Flamer.
- Chemical Warrior price reduced to match the Flamer's.
- The Chemical Sprayer's maximum ammo has been increased to 400 (Same as Flamer's).
- Players can no longer abuse the donation system by spectating and rejoining.
- Minigunner is 14% faster.
- Shotgunner was given a buff in damage to kill more easily up close.
- SMG's Altfire has now replaced the primary fire. No more altfire.
- Chronobow damage adjusted.
- Tiberium/Combustion Autorifle damage adjusted.
- Missile Launcher's Rockets are now a lot more reliable when homing in on targets.
* Speed of the homing rocket adjusted just slightly because of this.
- XP bonus on the Field Medic reduced greatly.
* 50 XP was way to high, now it's the same as Engineer/Technician.
~ Nail Bombs are now replenished upon entering the spawn room.
~ Sniper Rifle no longer has a range limit when scoped.
~ Fixed an issue with the Grenade/Flashbang/Self Heal shortcuts.
* Unusable Self Heals were also branching from this so that is gone as well.
~ Fixed an issue with "Killing Spree" being printed globally.
~ Stealth Laser Rifle couldn't be used when picked up from the ground.
~ Full Refill packs weren't giving Mechs ammo.
~ Mini-Refinery death wouldn't reset credit flow.
~ Mechs would appear as 'A's on the radar.
~ Fixed an issue with the Stealth Trooper cloak not returning after taking damage.
~ Ammo Cache drops weren't giving ammo for the Chronobow (and probably other classes).
~ Fixed an issue with Self Heal not going over 100 HP.
~ Team balancer should finally be fixed.
* I realized I made a mistake when I revised it several versions ago. Should be fine now.
~ Nail Machinegun and QuadShotgun now have obituaries (overlooked for some time).
~ Going to the spawnroom would refill Timecop ammo.
I'm also testing some experimental gameplay changes. Each team is now starting with 250 tickets at the beginning of the match. I'm doing this to hopefully cut down on stalled matches that lead to Sudden Death (which is nearly every game).
Depending on how you look at it, it can be good or bad for you. Player's who are efficient at killing will play a bigger role in the overall outcome of your team. On the flipside, players who are careless with mechs or just general infantry work will suffer, so hopefully this will encourage players to try harder and eventually develop their own tactics when it comes to supporting their team.

Of course, if this idea doesn't work out I can always revert the change, it's two simple CVAR's.

Anyways, be sure to report any bugs/problems you may have here in this thread.
<Dynamo_>uh
<Dynamo_>did you just take the thread away
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<FusedQyou>ask the thread

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - RC2

#75

Post by Arghantyl » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:36 pm

I appreciated all the changes you made and your work is still impressive, but the 250 tickets rule is awful.
It turns litterally the game into a TDM and the winning situation is to make RQ the opponent team.

I played 3 games and it was all in the stacking of skilled players and the rape of noobs.
The main objective should be to destroy the ennemy base and provide fun to Pro-Terminators AND recreative players.
Mechs are already weak against infantry and Pro-Terminators doesn t need really a better role in game.

Trying to solve the Sudden Death problem is a noble reason tough and i wished humbly to give few ways :
Levels of Fixing Limit for buildings : If the HP of a building go below 50% percent ,the max HP of his building becomes 50%.
It would allow true warfare instead of repetitives infiltration missions.

Buff Heavy mechs agaisnt buildings : The descriptions of heavy mechs are laughable ."Designed to be the tool of total annihilation of buildings" Lmao.
Even the nuke does 4% .Titan and Juggs should definetely become some kind of artillery against main buildings.

PS: 1)I like really the Lancer :D
2) sorry for my weird english

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - RC2

#76

Post by Mobius » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:35 pm

Arghantyl wrote: I appreciated all the changes you made and your work is still impressive, but the 250 tickets rule is awful.
It turns litterally the game into a TDM and the winning situation is to make RQ the opponent team.
Players ragequit anyway. 30 minutes in if a building is destroyed you're going to get a dip in players.
Arghantyl wrote:I played 3 games and it was all in the stacking of skilled players and the rape of noobs.
The whole "A3 stack" meme has been around before the new system was implemented so I don't see a point. Most players in AOW can barely get double digit frags in 50 minutes it wouldn't make a difference.
Arghantyl wrote:The main objective should be to destroy the ennemy base and provide fun to Pro-Terminators AND recreative players.
The main objective is to win whether it's tickets in sudden death or destroying bases. Players who can without needing go go terminator or whatever "recreative" is. You don't need a Terminator to win a game. That's what you got Time Cop or Stealth for. You want to help? Be a good minecraft player and go Utility. Wanna help kill and push the enemy back? You have a shit load of classes to pick from (I am a Flamer/Chem Sprayer player).
Arghantyl wrote:Mechs are already weak against infantry and Pro-Terminators doesn t need really a better role in game.
Mechs are actually pretty good against infantry and other mechs. They are weak against specific infantry type that counter them.
Arghantyl wrote:Buff Heavy mechs agaisnt buildings : The descriptions of heavy mechs are laughable ."Designed to be the tool of total annihilation of buildings" Lmao.
Even the nuke does 4% .Titan and Juggs should definetely become some kind of artillery against main buildings.
That's a terrible idea. Mech rush is still viable except for really campy maps. I do kind of agree about the building heal but then it makes time cop or any demolition class completely unforgiving powerful
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - RC2

#77

Post by madcat » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:16 pm

In my opinion the 250 tickets feature totally changes the spirit of the AOW - it makes players fear of losing by tickets and the only solution they see is a massive mech rush at the start (provided that mechs are allowed), winning by buildings. Also if a team is successful in killing both buildings and enemy players, then that team is winning by both buildings and tickets/lives which degrades this mod - hoping that despite Im being beaten at lives I can still turn the tides by destroying buildings (and vice versa) has always been one of the key characterictics of AOW. Also whats the point of Sudden Death in the maps where building attacks are out of the question? And the donations being restricted...I understand that if someone keeps joining, donating, then spectating and joining again, repeating this process, then the restriction can prevent just that, but the most crucial donations usually occur even before the players get the corporal rank - how about making the donations possible after the player has 50 experience? (of course, just my opinion). Also the flamer/chemsprayer turrets - I find them overpowered because they are simply too good defense against stealths - they can alert everyone visually (who would not have noticed that there is a huge flame/spray at his own obelisk, even from a mile away?)

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - RC2

#78

Post by Galactus » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:20 pm

re-add the pistol, I need my trinkle damage when sporting the sg/ssg class.

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - RC2

#79

Post by Catastrophe » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:32 pm

Ok my opinions on the latest patch.
  • SMG Nerf was a godsend and the balance has greatly improved because of this. I am seeing much more diversity in terms of combat and that's great. Please don't undo this.
  • I think getting higher ranks should -not- give so much HP. 150 is far too much and should be reduced to 125 max. High level players don't get punished enough for mis-plays because of this.
  • The pistol being removed is definitely a plus. I like that you are trying to de-clutter the players inventory. I think if there's a lot of complaints, a good middle-ground would be to add a keybind that lets you swap to pistol and not be able to sell the pistol for money anymore.
  • Not allowing players to donate via spectating/rejoining is good too.
  • The color for building health keeps changing if its greyed out, that needs to be fixed.
  • The ticket system is a mistake. People play All Out War as a casual game and are (mostly) ok with the grind. This change punishes you for dying too much.
  • Ranking up shouldn't refill you to max health - it's op.
  • I think there should be a nerf to how fast a building repairs. It should repair in diminishing returns instead of stacking.
  • Honestly the main reason people scream "OP" is based on how fast someone is moving and how tanky they are. I think you should balance out speed vs health.

Mobius
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - RC2

#80

Post by Mobius » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:55 pm

catastrophe wrote: The ticket system is a mistake. People play All Out War as a casual game and are (mostly) ok with the grind. This change punishes you for dying too much.
Good. Maybe players should stop feeding the same 6 people with 50+ frags every game. There's a reason why high ranking players who happen to also be really good players dominate so much.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

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