All Out War 2.2 - RC1

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta

Post#41 by jdagenet » Wed May 17, 2017 3:44 pm

madcat wrote:Here is another try of mine:
Image

Does it look better than the previous ones?

Yeah those look better, though there's still something off about it...
It might be the front of the turret. Maybe make it a more dark grey and shorten the end of it just a tad and see how that looks.
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta

Post#42 by Komodo » Wed May 17, 2017 9:40 pm

^
I think It just needs some more contrast between the inside and the outside bit of the barrel in the second and forth angle

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta

Post#43 by jdagenet » Thu May 18, 2017 2:42 am

Released beta 12. Fixed even more bugs, both core and map related. Here's the changelog:
Spoiler (Open)

Code: Select all

------------------------------------------------------------
----- LEGEND
------------------------------------------------------------
++ Major Change
+ New Content
- Balance / Tweak
~ Bugfix
* Note

+   Dying will now return the killer's armor type.
+   Two new Utility turrets: Flame and Chemical (credit to Madcat for the sprites).
~   Fixed a bug with OpenDeck not giving desired selections.
~   Fixed a bug with Tiberium bot marines playing sounds for no reason.
~   Fixed node errors in AOW01.
~   Fixed not being able to shoot your weapons on AOW12 and AOW15.
~   Team Switcher is no longer broken.
~   Flame Thrower, Chemical Sprayer, and Plasma Cannon's decay effects should not hurt teammates anymore.
~   Fixed an issue that would reset the ammo of a mech when you would eject and re-enter it.
-   The Minigunner class no longer spawns with Bullet Resistance.
-   Increased the Flame Thrower's rate of fire to compete with the Chemical Sprayer.
-   Madcat has increased movement speed. Health increased from 4000 to 5000.
-   Tortoise now only has the Blaster and Impact Grenades, no more machine gun. Health increased from 2500 to 3000.
-   Rhino has increased movement speed and is now a medium mech designed for killing mechs and infantry.
   *   Comes with Rockets, a Plasma Cannon, and a Chemical Sprayer.
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#44 by Combinebobnt » Thu May 18, 2017 6:18 am

ok ill do more top science with the new mech changes seeing how u have the gunman department handled...

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#45 by Espio » Fri May 19, 2017 3:19 pm

Ever thought about using the Nod EVA for Nuke beacon announcements? I personally thought it fit better via modding them in. It gave a better sense of actually going against another type of a team with a different announcer monitoring the battlefield.

I can provide them too if such a small thing matters at all(Probably doesn't).

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#46 by Riclo » Sat May 20, 2017 10:12 am

I've got the map that I posted screenshots of earlier finished. The download link is here:

allfearthesentinel.net/download?file=tenementsaowriclomay20th.wad

I'd really appreciate it if everyone looked at the map to see if something like that is good for AOW. One thing i will mention is that the map is asymmetrical but I think it's done in a way that benefits the map

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#47 by k4r4t3k4n4k4s » Sat May 20, 2017 4:07 pm

Riclo wrote:I've got the map that I posted screenshots of earlier finished. The download link is here:

allfearthesentinel.net/download?file=tenementsaowriclomay20th.wad

I'd really appreciate it if everyone looked at the map to see if something like that is good for AOW. One thing i will mention is that the map is asymmetrical but I think it's done in a way that benefits the map


I like the idea you have remaking another map into something usable for AOW. However as someone who actually have experience in making maps that are played by the community ( and opposed to some opinionated in this thread :) ) I think you need to shrink and remove a lot of the side passages to make this good. The mostly played maps are pretty straight and simple but are providing lots of opportunities for action. If maps are too large and spread out players won't find each other, it will be hopeless to defend base and game will be boring.

That said:
- make all lifts shootable/bumpable and faster so they are easily accesible. Test and feel that the "game flow" is good entering and using. Prefferably I think they should start lowered and raise when you enter sector.
- Remove, shrink or add secondary entrance to the one entrance sniper camp close to prime base opening
- Tiberium may be far and hard to get to from base. Remember this is the basis for action as games without cash will be very boring games for one team
- Remove "the big doors" to areas and/or make them shootable
- Put one sided lines in the middle for performance. Now you have one "line of sight" from one base end to another which will be hard on low end computers.
- Put more effort in designing base area. I'd say after overall design this is the most important. It's here users will spend a lot of time defending or trying to enter. It should be fun to stealth your base for example.

Also make sure to do real world testing and do listen to input from players. This isn't something you can do yourself so I would suggest putting this up on a real server and have them come here to discuss. Or if you know enough players you can test private first.

Texturing and visuals looks promising. Here you dont need any input. :)

I'll provide more feedback if appreciated.

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#48 by Ru5tK1ng » Sat May 20, 2017 6:05 pm

Riclo wrote:I've got the map that I posted screenshots of earlier finished. The download link is here:

allfearthesentinel.net/download?file=tenementsaowriclomay20th.wad

I'd really appreciate it if everyone looked at the map to see if something like that is good for AOW. One thing i will mention is that the map is asymmetrical but I think it's done in a way that benefits the map

Based on first impressions and general design, this is what I have to say:

Visually: It's on par with and even better than some AOW maps. However, there are many HOMs and floor/wall glitches all over the map. There are spots where you can see behind walls or into another sector. Blue Tiberium has an impassable line or something blocking the brown walkway so you can't traverse one of the sides. There are several bleeds and slimetrails; what node builder are you using? I know it's a WIP, but take another moment to clean up the structure and refine all the issues before you set up any serious play testing.

Some of the lifts could be a bit faster, but playtesting will determine which ones truly need adjustments.

The backs of the bases are barren and just feel full of empty space. Perhaps extend some of the existing side entrances further into the base so everyone won't just concentrate defense solely in the front end of the base.

Speaking of empty spaces, there quite a number rooms that don't really have much going on, perhaps shrink some here and there.

The pathways are good, but still need more streamlining. They need improvement on flow and general direction. Make the pathways more intuitive and less maze like. You have a decent premise but there are things that can be made better if you take the time and put in the effort. Don't let your map be shit like immortal kombat.

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#49 by Riclo » Sat May 20, 2017 6:58 pm

I agree with most of what you said k4r4t3k4n4k4s but there's a few points I'd like to make
k4r4t3k4n4k4s wrote:I think you need to shrink and remove a lot of the side passages to make this good. The mostly played maps are pretty straight and simple but are providing lots of opportunities for action. If maps are too large and spread out players won't find each other, it will be hopeless to defend base and game will be boring.

Alot of people have mentioned this one way or another so far but I don't see where they're coming from. There's only three main paths to this map:
Spoiler (Open)
Image

You have the blue line which is essentially a straight line from one base to the other, and then you have the two paths on each side, which only have one path that can lead from one base to the other. These are interconnected with mid-field. I guess what I can do is get rid of the divider that I circled in yellow, but I put that there on purpose so it wouldn't be too easy for players to get from one tiberium field to the other. If I do get rid of that though I'd have to redesign that whole left area to make it faster. The right mid-area seems fine, maybe a bit roomy though so I might shrink it down just a little.
k4r4t3k4n4k4s wrote:- Remove "the big doors" to areas and/or make them shootable

The big-doors open once you get near them and then they stay open for the entire game. It's more of a design aspect and I don't think it's that much of a problem
k4r4t3k4n4k4s wrote:- Put more effort in designing base area. I'd say after overall design this is the most important. It's here users will spend a lot of time defending or trying to enter. It should be fun to stealth your base for example.

I don't know if by design you mean detail or the overall building placement. The building placement seems fine (Pretty much the same as Shattered Remains) and the blue base seems great when it comes to detail. I'll probably add more physical objects for cover/stealths for both bases and detail red base more

---
Ru5tK1ng wrote:However, there are many HOMs and floor/wall glitches all over the map. There are spots where you can see behind walls or into another sector. Blue Tiberium has an impassable line or something blocking the brown walkway so you can't traverse one of the sides. There are several bleeds and slimetrails; what node builder are you using? I know it's a WIP, but take another moment to clean up the structure and refine all the issues before you set up any serious play testing.

I seriously don't know what's up with that because I've had to have fixed at least over fifteen of these damn things so far and I've never had this problem before. The impassable line at the blue tib field is just another HOM/node builder issue; I'll just have to fix these all one at a time when I find them or when someone else points them out
Ru5tK1ng wrote:The pathways are good, but still need more streamlining. They need improvement on flow and general direction. Make the pathways more intuitive and less maze like. You have a decent premise but there are things that can be made better if you take the time and put in the effort.

The right-side seems fine (maybe I can change it so getting to the red base isn't as long) so I'll have to mess with the left side.
Ru5tK1ng wrote:Don't let your map be shit like immortal kombat.

wtf chainsaw combat is a great map that should win a Cacoward

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#50 by jdagenet » Sat May 20, 2017 7:49 pm

Riclo wrote:I've got the map that I posted screenshots of earlier finished. The download link is here:

allfearthesentinel.net/download?file=tenementsaowriclomay20th.wad

I'd really appreciate it if everyone looked at the map to see if something like that is good for AOW. One thing i will mention is that the map is asymmetrical but I think it's done in a way that benefits the map

Alright so I was able to open this up and take a look. Better than V1 for sure, but as others mentioned there's still some issues that the people before me have already pointed out.

One of the major issues I came across were dead ends or areas that you could easily connect and at least open up to make the entrance not so bottle-necked.
Here's some examples of what I'm talking about:
Spoiler (Open)
Image
These two areas right here can easily be connected from the cave area to the tech room to open them up more. See how small that entrance is? Bad news.


Image
These two rooms serve no purpose, connect them so that they're not dead ends.


Image
Might not be a bad idea to open these up so players can drop down.


Image
Again, two dead ends. I get what you're going for here: so the Utility Guy can place turrets, but they're dead ends lol just void the sectors and put computer terminals there I don't know.


Image
This entire room is a meme, there's literally no reason to go here. Connect it to somewhere else so players have at least two ways in and out.


Image
You know the drill: connect it.


Image
Same here.

The west and east sides of the map also extend out really far. I'd advise probably just removing all or at least portions of the cave on the west and connect directly to the rooms that are already there. For example, at the top of the red tiberium rock stair case thing that is about to lead you into the water cave, just connect directly to the tech room. Ditch the cave.
I think for the room in the east all you'd need to do is just pull in that entire east portion and see how that looks.

Also, node issues are extremely easy to fix. I notice you have quite a few large ones and even one that interferes with gameplay that Rust already pointed out. In the area you're having issues, just move existing vertices around a bit and that will force the editor to rebuild the nodes in the map, fixing the artifact that caused the error in the first place.
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#51 by Riclo » Sat May 20, 2017 10:34 pm

jdagenet wrote:
Spoiler (Open)
Image
This entire room is a meme, there's literally no reason to go here. Connect it to somewhere else so players have at least two ways in and out.

I kept that in on purpose so that it's not just a long hallway which would be really easy to defend. It's pretty much useless for red team aside from turrets but it's good for the enemy because of the meds and cover; I'll make the elevator already lowered at start and I'll make it so that you can drop down to the left from there.

I'll see what I can do with connecting in the rooms in a way that's balanced but I think removing the whole cave isn't a good idea. I'll most likely do what you suggested in the first pic

It looks like you're able to see the node problems when GZdoom builder. I'll fix whatever I can find but I'll probably need you to fix anything that's left once the map is done since I can't see any of that with Doom Builder

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#52 by jdagenet » Sat May 20, 2017 11:18 pm

Riclo wrote:I'll fix whatever I can find but I'll probably need you to fix anything that's left once the map is done since I can't see any of that with Doom Builder

You don't need Doom Builder to see them, you can see them in the map. Just run the map, note the areas that have node issues, go to the editor, move some vertices in that area and that's it lol. Super easy.
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#53 by ibm5155 » Mon May 22, 2017 5:52 pm

what about having a mech that it could create some Shields over the map with by a limited time and make sentries turrets (kinda like a support mech)
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#54 by jdagenet » Mon May 22, 2017 6:00 pm

ibm5155 wrote:what about having a mech that it could create some Shields over the map with by a limited time

There was the suggestion of giving the Madcat some kind of shield to protect teammates, but personally I'd like to see the new mechs used a bit before I go off and start changing a whole lot of whats already there.
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#55 by k4r4t3k4n4k4s » Thu May 25, 2017 4:21 am

On aow11 renegade "large version" that has been reincluded you can get stuck. Near base, I think red, there is a ladder not working and the door can now only be opened from other side

Also this map is so large it could feature at least light mechs.

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#56 by k4r4t3k4n4k4s » Mon May 29, 2017 6:02 pm

Turtle blaster seems too strong used on building terminals. 1-2 turtles took down 3 buildings in SD (on Surface Tension) using blaster. This weapon can easily be used through doors since the turtle firing point is so low.

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#57 by jdagenet » Mon May 29, 2017 6:56 pm

k4r4t3k4n4k4s wrote:Turtle blaster seems too strong used on building terminals. 1-2 turtles took down 3 buildings in SD (on Surface Tension) using blaster. This weapon can easily be used through doors since the turtle firing point is so low.

Buildings take more damage specifically during sudden death. Combine that with mechs and those buildings aren't lasting too long...
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#58 by Catastrophe » Mon May 29, 2017 8:54 pm

So from the server. Increase the time frame to get double kills from 5 seconds to 10 seconds, and make it so chrono archer gets his ammo refilled upon returning to spawn.
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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#59 by fr blood » Tue May 30, 2017 11:40 am

I don't know if it's codable but something very amazing would be some sort of mechs having more than 1 place inside(a driver, a gunner, some passengers), I'm pretty sure that it would improve the gameplay and also brings something original.

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Re: All Out War 2.2 - Beta 12

Post#60 by Ivan » Tue May 30, 2017 12:31 pm

fr blood wrote:I don't know if it's codable but something very amazing would be some sort of mechs having more than 1 place inside(a driver, a gunner, some passengers), I'm pretty sure that it would improve the gameplay and also brings something original.


Great idea to be honest but I'm sure jason wants to fix the more glaring bugs and balance problems first, from what I heard at least.
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