Zandronum

Was playing this for the first time in a long time and i cant help but feel its worse then before, is it me or are zombies nerfed even more? they were already stupidly weak in old iterations of the mod, why are broken maps still a thing? why are even worse and more broken maps being added? how on earth can you claim this has any balance at all? most maps are still extremely one sided i still feel that camping should not be promoted but most maps clearly do as allot of spots are completely broken and overpowered. the sniper rifle is WAY too powerfull as it can kill a regular zombie in only a few shots, zombies get almost no chance to even come close to humans in ZM maps because the camp spots are too strong and the weapons are too good.

i would also like to point out that the sniper is too accurate being able to kill zombies from one side of the map to the other without the zombie being able to take cover or have any means to get close, coupled with the fact it does too much damage makes it almost completely pointless to even TRY when you are a zombie because there is absolutely nothing to force humans to get out of their camp spots.

but at the same time you get some maps that are nearly impossible for humans to win because all they consist out of narrow corridors with no room for maneuverability, so i do feel most of the balance issues come from the poor map design`.

Fused edit:

Fused wrote: That's because you weren't playing this mod. You were playing Beta28 with some bad weapon addon that's called ZH Revisited. The server you played on also added a "new mappack" that readds rejected or just plain bad and old maps.

I remember in old days that killing a zombie was almost impossible, weapon were weak and we there were no grenades so I understand the current buff and if I'm right here zombies got some stuff to deal with campers like acid and strategies like overrun and human tower, and it works, sometimes...

mr fiat wrote:Was playing this for the first time in a long time and i cant help but feel its worse then before, is it me or are zombies nerfed even more? they were already stupidly weak in old iterations of the mod, why are broken maps still a thing? why are even worse and more broken maps being added? how on earth can you claim this has any balance at all? most maps are still extremely one sided i still feel that camping should not be promoted but most maps clearly do as allot of spots are completely broken and overpowered. the sniper rifle is WAY too powerfull as it can kill a regular zombie in only a few shots, zombies get almost no chance to even come close to humans in ZM maps because the camp spots are too strong and the weapons are too good.

i would also like to point out that the sniper is too accurate being able to kill zombies from one side of the map to the other without the zombie being able to take cover or have any means to get close, coupled with the fact it does too much damage makes it almost completely pointless to even TRY when you are a zombie because there is absolutely nothing to force humans to get out of their camp spots.

but at the same time you get some maps that are nearly impossible for humans to win because all they consist out of narrow corridors with no room for maneuverability, so i do feel most of the balance issues come from the poor map design`.

I was there too and, just saying that's not the Extinction neither the offial zombie horde.
That's just another mod just like bagel horde, from people changing the way zombie horde is...
Actually, there are no offical servers running, if you do a quick search right now about "zombie", you are going to see 3 servers:
-[TSPG] Painkiller: [Addon] Zombie Horde - Classes f7.3 By styd051
-[Ireland] BlueIon's server with BAGEL HORDE!!! for Zombie Horde
[Ireland] BlueIon's server with Zombie Horde REVISITED!!! (Not The Extinction)

EDIT:
Also just saying, The Extinction is still in alpha stage, it requires zandronum 3.0 to run, and it doesn't even run right online yet...

mr fiat wrote:Was playing this for the first time in a long time and i cant help but feel its worse then before.

That's because you weren't playing this mod. You were playing Beta28 with some bad weapon addon that's called ZH Revisited. The server you played on also added a "new mappack" that readds rejected or just plain bad and old maps.

If you want the thread of the mod you're talking about, follow this: https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=7595

Fused wrote:

mr fiat wrote:Was playing this for the first time in a long time and i cant help but feel its worse then before.

That's because you weren't playing this mod. You were playing Beta28 with some bad weapon addon that's called ZH Revisited. The server you played on also added a "new mappack" that readds rejected or just plain bad and old maps.

If you want the thread of the mod you're talking about, follow this: https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=7595

oh that would explain some things...

mr fiat wrote: Fused edit:

Fused wrote: That's because you weren't playing this mod. You were playing Beta28 with some bad weapon addon that's called ZH Revisited. The server you played on also added a "new mappack" that readds rejected or just plain bad and old maps.

First of all, ZH Revisited is NOT a bad addon. I don't see any complaints about it, Fused.

But yes, I do realize about the Sniper crap. And it's fixed in ZH Revisited now.

NourPrince wrote:
First of all, ZH Revisited is NOT a bad addon. I don't see any complaints about it, Fused.

But yes, I do realize about the Sniper crap. And it's fixed in ZH Revisited now.

Oh well you can't be objective when you criticize your stuff right.

Ivan wrote: Oh well you can't be objective when you criticize your stuff right.

Well, you're maybe right, but you can be objective after you realized you did something wrong (example, my BH: SA.) :P

No complaints does not mean that a mod is good. I just so happen to open my mouth about it unlike the rest, and I do know a range of people that share my opinion. I'm not trying to flame you or the mod, I'm just dissapointed to see bad weapon addons happen so much to mods that are popular (or used to be popular).

This would be a good example because you really haven't put in too much effort to create this, because we've all seen these weapons before. There might be a slight edit in some weapons, and the sounds might differ, but it's still unoriginal and in my opinion not fun to play with at all.

I realise ZH has stock doom 2 aswell, but I'd rather use the old formula than use an overused one.

NourPrince wrote:

mr fiat wrote: Fused edit:

Fused wrote: That's because you weren't playing this mod. You were playing Beta28 with some bad weapon addon that's called ZH Revisited. The server you played on also added a "new mappack" that readds rejected or just plain bad and old maps.

First of all, ZH Revisited is NOT a bad addon. I don't see any complaints about it, Fused.

I was playing it two days ago. It sucked. Humans won almost every round.

Ænima wrote:

NourPrince wrote:

mr fiat wrote: Fused edit:

Fused wrote: That's because you weren't playing this mod. You were playing Beta28 with some bad weapon addon that's called ZH Revisited. The server you played on also added a "new mappack" that readds rejected or just plain bad and old maps.

First of all, ZH Revisited is NOT a bad addon. I don't see any complaints about it, Fused.

I was playing it two days ago. It sucked. Humans won almost every round.

Well, you played the one without the sniper nerf.

NourPrince wrote:
Well, you played the one without the sniper nerf.

The sniper "nerf" is quite possibly the dumbest addon ever made for ZH. You should really just remove it.

Galactus wrote:

NourPrince wrote:
Well, you played the one without the sniper nerf.

The sniper "nerf" is quite possibly the dumbest addon ever made for ZH. You should really just remove it.

Why would I? Tell me a good reason why would I. Problem no scoping? Don't worry. v2 is here and the no scopes can be quite accurate and deal 75 damage.

Apart from that shameless self-promotion here, I want to know what's with 100% accuracy when no scoping.

NourPrince wrote: Why would I? Tell me a good reason why would I. Problem no scoping? Don't worry. v2 is here and the no scopes can be quite accurate and deal 75 damage.

Ummmmmmmmm...

NourPrince wrote: deal 75 damage.

Really? That's so low that it is just not worth using it at all. Even shotgun is now stronger, with faster reload. Sniper damage has always been 125-250-375. Sorry, but this is something that just doesn't make sense. If you want to nerf something, choose between accuracy and damage. Not both. (Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth learned this lesson with Azazel.) BTW, great job copying COD gameplay.

There is also a second problem. Since Beta 28 the sniper automatically unscopes after shooting. And I believe it can be making it frustrating to use, when unscoped sniper is almost worthless, weaker than shotgun and possibly chaingun too.

Klofkac wrote:

NourPrince wrote: Why would I? Tell me a good reason why would I. Problem no scoping? Don't worry. v2 is here and the no scopes can be quite accurate and deal 75 damage.

Ummmmmmmmm...

NourPrince wrote: deal 75 damage.

Really? That's so low that it is just not worth using it at all. Even shotgun is now stronger, with faster reload. Sniper damage has always been 125-250-375. Sorry, but this is something that just doesn't make sense. If you want to nerf something, choose between accuracy and damage. Not both. (Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth learned this lesson with Azazel.) BTW, great job copying COD gameplay.

There is also a second problem. Since Beta 28 the sniper automatically unscopes after shooting. And I believe it can be making it frustrating to use, when unscoped sniper is almost worthless, weaker than shotgun and possibly chaingun too.

Well, I did that. And also, I forgot to mention that 75 damage thing multiplies by something, that's Decorate mechanics for you.

And it's common sense that Snipers don't shoot that 100% accuracy when unscoped. It's just... wrong. ZH Logic man. :P

Note: Zooming makes the damage stronger. Like 110. :P

(btw, I can fix the automatic un scoping if you guys want to.)

Well this is becoming quite a derail on the topic author's mod... I come here looking for updates and I see a discussion about another mod.

I don't see the point of trying to fix what wasn't broken in the first place. The zh sniper in vanilla zh was balanced and fair. The revisited one pre-patch was ludicrously overpowered and post patch is now useless. Chaingun sniping does more damage now which completely defeats the purpose of having a sniper rifle. Just because your opinion differs from everyone else's, doesn't make you right.

sorry nourprince but some aspects of your mod just don't work, shotgun is way too op and the sniper (as many have suggested) sucks ass, ssg sprite is horrible as well, credit where it's due for the chaingun however, i thought the re-work on that was good

On-topic this is looking mighty good fused, can't wait to play this once it's out :D

Honestly, I don't think you should rely on the random multiplication done in decorate at all if it comes to the sniper. Your best solution would be increasing the zombie's starting HP, and base it alot more on the amount of players that are playing.

Ivan wrote:Well this is becoming quite a derail on the topic author's mod... I come here looking for updates and I see a discussion about another mod.

I agree, and I will split this. It will remain open for discussion because I don't need any of this in the main thread.

why not merge it into the Revisited thread?