[WIP] Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
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Killer2
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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#161

Post by Killer2 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:18 pm

Is there some way to make Ammo sphere only work with complex+LCA guns? It currently breaks some pretty popular addons for LCA by making weapons that are balanced by really scarce ammo (DBFG, Pyro) or really low ammo counts (Black Hole Generator) completely broken, especially on Replacer than can replace most monsters with legendaries. If it's not possible, perhaps it should be moved to higher tier monsters (cyber and mastermind tier), since the powerup is really strong, even without said addons. I don't think zombies are strong enough to drop it.
Also, LCA 1.1.9 when?

EDIT:And if possible, could we get rid of this stop and pop gameplay? The ridiculous amount of invulnerability frames and things you have to wait out (redeemer death, behemoth yellow balls attack, legendary bfg clouds etc.) make it feel a lot more like a cover based shooter (i.e.:CoD) than fast paced Doom action. I know LCA is supposed to be it's own thing, but do people really enjoy the gameplay these situations provide? I personally think people play this mod to the death because of the very nice difficulty/skill ceiling hardcore survival feel and the really nice visuals, not to wait behind a door for 30 seconds because some monster just decided to use some bullshit attack. Just my 2c.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#162

Post by Ivan » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:33 pm

Killer2 wrote:Is there some way to make Ammo sphere only work with complex+LCA guns? It currently breaks some pretty popular addons for LCA by making weapons that are balanced by really scarce ammo (DBFG, Pyro) or really low ammo counts (Black Hole Generator) completely broken, especially on Replacer than can replace most monsters with legendaries. If it's not possible, perhaps it should be moved to higher tier monsters (cyber and mastermind tier), since the powerup is really strong, even without said addons. I don't think zombies are strong enough to drop it.
Also, LCA 1.1.9 when?

EDIT:And if possible, could we get rid of this stop and pop gameplay? The ridiculous amount of invulnerability frames and things you have to wait out (redeemer death, behemoth yellow balls attack, legendary bfg clouds etc.) make it feel a lot more like a cover based shooter (i.e.:CoD) than fast paced Doom action. I know LCA is supposed to be it's own thing, but do people really enjoy the gameplay these situations provide? I personally think people play this mod to the death because of the very nice difficulty/skill ceiling hardcore survival feel and the really nice visuals, not to wait behind a door for 30 seconds because some monster just decided to use some bullshit attack. Just my 2c.
The stop and pop gameplay is the byproduct of the "skill ceiling" (you really used that term when there are many one shotting monsters? Just wow...) and so making it go away implies difficulty drops. Good luck having that achieved by the way, people seem to like their one shotting overpowered monsters.
=== RAGNAROK DM ON ... uh... dead forever? ===
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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#163

Post by Legendary » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:14 pm

Killer2 wrote:Legendary you should really update your first post. It still has LCA 1.5.5 and it's respective changelog. It's easier for people to get it from the first post, and most don't have the time or patience to sift through a threat to see if there's a newer version or not. This would really help get more people into LCA.
I would also appreciate Blood toning it down with the hate for other mods. They have a right to exist, just as LCA does (yes, even ILCA, LCA's slightly retarded love child).
Will do, thanks for telling me.
Galactus wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Think this mod is in great need of some balancing, when people have to actually change the map because a certain monster spawned.
I plan on removing the TLC and TLCard from the normal lca spawns as they are too difficult to kill in normal lca. The only way I'd keep them is if I found the time to nerf them and or add a new BFG type weapon to them which makes you able to fully damage all legendary enemies.
theundeadsoldierx9 wrote:I made improved legendary zombie and improved legendary assault captain since the actual ones are kinda horrible also the new leg zombie gonna hold a leg plasmatic-rifle instead of a gold railgun these ones it's gonna be in the next lca version release


Screenshot= https://gyazo.com/32345834928996b947372fb1020e518f
Nice Job, once you finish those I'll definitely be adding them to the pk3 for 1.5.9. :biggrin:
Killer2 wrote:Is there some way to make Ammo sphere only work with complex+LCA guns? It currently breaks some pretty popular addons for LCA by making weapons that are balanced by really scarce ammo (DBFG, Pyro) or really low ammo counts (Black Hole Generator) completely broken, especially on Replacer than can replace most monsters with legendaries. If it's not possible, perhaps it should be moved to higher tier monsters (cyber and mastermind tier), since the powerup is really strong, even without said addons. I don't think zombies are strong enough to drop it.
Also, LCA 1.1.9 when?

EDIT:And if possible, could we get rid of this stop and pop gameplay? The ridiculous amount of invulnerability frames and things you have to wait out (redeemer death, behemoth yellow balls attack, legendary bfg clouds etc.) make it feel a lot more like a cover based shooter (i.e.:CoD) than fast paced Doom action. I know LCA is supposed to be it's own thing, but do people really enjoy the gameplay these situations provide? I personally think people play this mod to the death because of the very nice difficulty/skill ceiling hardcore survival feel and the really nice visuals, not to wait behind a door for 30 seconds because some monster just decided to use some bullshit attack. Just my 2c.
It is, but that really isn't my concern since those are addons to lca. Someone would have to add a modified version of it to one of their addons.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#164

Post by Killer2 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:22 pm

Ivan wrote:The stop and pop gameplay is the byproduct of the "skill ceiling" (you really used that term when there are many one shotting monsters? Just wow...) and so making it go away implies difficulty drops. Good luck having that achieved by the way, people seem to like their one shotting overpowered monsters.
Well there is a skill ceiling, but it's based more on knowing stuff about LCA than actual skill (knowledge ceiling?), which I don't really mind per se, but I'd rather have oneshot projectiles that are supposed to be actively dodged instead of hid from, and monsters that test your skill (i.e. ability to dodge, focus the right target, be on the move constantly etc.) than your patience (really high hp and damage, dumb ass hell, enforcing hiding and shooting from behind corners/outside their range).
The difficulty doesn't have to drop to change the gameplay from stop and pop to fast paced. Think of Dark Souls for instance, most of the monsters are totally overpowered in terms of damage, but if you're skilled enough you can dodge every attack (or so I've heard, haven't actually played it).
Legendary wrote:It is, but that really isn't my concern since those are addons to lca. Someone would have to add a modified version of it to one of their addons.
What about making it drop from higher tier monsters? As I said, I think even in regular LCA with no addons it's too good to be dropped by cannon fodder.
Also, any plans to change the gameplay to be more fast paced?

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#165

Post by Legendary » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:26 pm

I think it's fine how it is, even the lower tier legendarys can kill you in one hit if you're not careful.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#166

Post by Killer2 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:37 pm

As I said, I don't mind the difficulty being too high or too low, I mostly think the "you must hide" type of gameplay to be less interesting than "you must dodge" type of gameplay. If anything, I think the latter can be a lot more difficult and more impressive to execute.
I don't think I'm in the minority about the stop and pop(hide for a while, shoot, repeat) gameplay, but I'm not sure. Maybe you could ask around or make a poll. This could perhaps bring new players to Complex that find the gameplay boring (I'm sure there are plenty of them), as well as reignite the interest of old players (IDK about others but I am starting to find LCA increasingly boring...once you learn the game perfectly there's very few interesting things you can do with it). Of course I might be wrong, and you don't have to do anything I say. This is merely a suggestion.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#167

Post by theundeadsoldierx9 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:36 am

Legendary wrote:I think it's fine how it is, even the lower tier legendarys can kill you in one hit if you're not careful.
True that what it make them way more hard to kill

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#168

Post by ThePlamzJoker » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:37 am

Hello again, people of LCA! Ever since I started my YouTube gameplay series with Alien Vendetta, I have had a few queries and suggestions regarding the mod:

Concerning my favourite weapon, why does it click when you press the main fire button to reload? This click is supposed to be a small indicator of the gun having no ammo to reload, but it's only the barrels that are emptied so it then reloads afterwards. I noticed Complex's original quad shotgun doesn't do this, nor does the double barrel shotgun, and this may sound trivial but it's irritating and costs a fraction of time that may be crucial in a tight situation. Could you fix this so the hexa doesn't do this click unless you actually cannot reload?
tarrasqueSorcerer wrote:This playlist has almost all tracks. It doesn't have Leg Redeemer (it's still not identified), as well as the recent Leg Soul/Leg Tormentor.
I see my playlist of LCA's soundtrack has been mentioned already, which is convenient because I was meaning to ask on this thread - what is the song for the Legendary Redeemer? I have been trying to find it for absolutely ages now, and I've still got no answers. I figured it might be an Audiomachine song because of the shorter length and less tremendous use of instruments like those from Two Steps From Hell, but I still can't find it anywhere. Additionally, could you also tell me the three new songs (Legendary Soul, Tormentor etc) because Shazam is useless and I would love to finally complete that playlist! :P

I noticed the Freezer Behemoth has the same sight and attack sound as the Legendary Behemoth's sight sound, which is extremely jarring and unfitting. I was hoping you'd find a unique set of sounds for it in future...but I've also wanted to advertise myself as a possible help to the mod for ages! I once worked with a guy on his small-time mod project, and I dabbled with a bunch of coding and produced my own sound effects, which I took from Doom, PSX Doom and several other games, but edited and modified in some way to sound different and original. Here's some examples of what I made (the broken elevator sound is one of my best pieces, lol)

It would be a dream to be taken on board to contribute anything to this mod, and if you need some sound effects made, I could be your guy :biggrin:

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#169

Post by theundeadsoldierx9 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:19 am

ThePlamzJoker wrote:Hello again, people of LCA! Ever since I started my YouTube gameplay series with Alien Vendetta, I have had a few queries and suggestions regarding the mod:

Concerning my favourite weapon, why does it click when you press the main fire button to reload? This click is supposed to be a small indicator of the gun having no ammo to reload, but it's only the barrels that are emptied so it then reloads afterwards. I noticed Complex's original quad shotgun doesn't do this, nor does the double barrel shotgun, and this may sound trivial but it's irritating and costs a fraction of time that may be crucial in a tight situation. Could you fix this so the hexa doesn't do this click unless you actually cannot reload?
tarrasqueSorcerer wrote:This playlist has almost all tracks. It doesn't have Leg Redeemer (it's still not identified), as well as the recent Leg Soul/Leg Tormentor.
I see my playlist of LCA's soundtrack has been mentioned already, which is convenient because I was meaning to ask on this thread - what is the song for the Legendary Redeemer? I have been trying to find it for absolutely ages now, and I've still got no answers. I figured it might be an Audiomachine song because of the shorter length and less tremendous use of instruments like those from Two Steps From Hell, but I still can't find it anywhere. Additionally, could you also tell me the three new songs (Legendary Soul, Tormentor etc) because Shazam is useless and I would love to finally complete that playlist! :P

I noticed the Freezer Behemoth has the same sight and attack sound as the Legendary Behemoth's sight sound, which is extremely jarring and unfitting. I was hoping you'd find a unique set of sounds for it in future...but I've also wanted to advertise myself as a possible help to the mod for ages! I once worked with a guy on his small-time mod project, and I dabbled with a bunch of coding and produced my own sound effects, which I took from Doom, PSX Doom and several other games, but edited and modified in some way to sound different and original. Here's some examples of what I made (the broken elevator sound is one of my best pieces, lol)

It would be a dream to be taken on board to contribute anything to this mod, and if you need some sound effects made, I could be your guy :biggrin:
Legendary soul music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MbtEecMTXU

Legendary Tormentor music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9dNrmGD7mU

Legendary Redeemer Music : I didn't find it yet

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#170

Post by Legendary » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:26 am

theundeadsoldierx9 wrote:
ThePlamzJoker wrote:Hello again, people of LCA! Ever since I started my YouTube gameplay series with Alien Vendetta, I have had a few queries and suggestions regarding the mod:

Concerning my favourite weapon, why does it click when you press the main fire button to reload? This click is supposed to be a small indicator of the gun having no ammo to reload, but it's only the barrels that are emptied so it then reloads afterwards. I noticed Complex's original quad shotgun doesn't do this, nor does the double barrel shotgun, and this may sound trivial but it's irritating and costs a fraction of time that may be crucial in a tight situation. Could you fix this so the hexa doesn't do this click unless you actually cannot reload?
tarrasqueSorcerer wrote:This playlist has almost all tracks. It doesn't have Leg Redeemer (it's still not identified), as well as the recent Leg Soul/Leg Tormentor.
I see my playlist of LCA's soundtrack has been mentioned already, which is convenient because I was meaning to ask on this thread - what is the song for the Legendary Redeemer? I have been trying to find it for absolutely ages now, and I've still got no answers. I figured it might be an Audiomachine song because of the shorter length and less tremendous use of instruments like those from Two Steps From Hell, but I still can't find it anywhere. Additionally, could you also tell me the three new songs (Legendary Soul, Tormentor etc) because Shazam is useless and I would love to finally complete that playlist! :P

I noticed the Freezer Behemoth has the same sight and attack sound as the Legendary Behemoth's sight sound, which is extremely jarring and unfitting. I was hoping you'd find a unique set of sounds for it in future...but I've also wanted to advertise myself as a possible help to the mod for ages! I once worked with a guy on his small-time mod project, and I dabbled with a bunch of coding and produced my own sound effects, which I took from Doom, PSX Doom and several other games, but edited and modified in some way to sound different and original. Here's some examples of what I made (the broken elevator sound is one of my best pieces, lol)

It would be a dream to be taken on board to contribute anything to this mod, and if you need some sound effects made, I could be your guy :biggrin:
Legendary soul music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MbtEecMTXU

Legendary Tormentor music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9dNrmGD7mU

Legendary Redeemer Music : I didn't find it yet
Thanks, I would have done it but I've been really busy lately.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#171

Post by theundeadsoldierx9 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:45 am

Legendary wrote:
theundeadsoldierx9 wrote:
ThePlamzJoker wrote:Hello again, people of LCA! Ever since I started my YouTube gameplay series with Alien Vendetta, I have had a few queries and suggestions regarding the mod:

Concerning my favourite weapon, why does it click when you press the main fire button to reload? This click is supposed to be a small indicator of the gun having no ammo to reload, but it's only the barrels that are emptied so it then reloads afterwards. I noticed Complex's original quad shotgun doesn't do this, nor does the double barrel shotgun, and this may sound trivial but it's irritating and costs a fraction of time that may be crucial in a tight situation. Could you fix this so the hexa doesn't do this click unless you actually cannot reload?
tarrasqueSorcerer wrote:This playlist has almost all tracks. It doesn't have Leg Redeemer (it's still not identified), as well as the recent Leg Soul/Leg Tormentor.
I see my playlist of LCA's soundtrack has been mentioned already, which is convenient because I was meaning to ask on this thread - what is the song for the Legendary Redeemer? I have been trying to find it for absolutely ages now, and I've still got no answers. I figured it might be an Audiomachine song because of the shorter length and less tremendous use of instruments like those from Two Steps From Hell, but I still can't find it anywhere. Additionally, could you also tell me the three new songs (Legendary Soul, Tormentor etc) because Shazam is useless and I would love to finally complete that playlist! :P

I noticed the Freezer Behemoth has the same sight and attack sound as the Legendary Behemoth's sight sound, which is extremely jarring and unfitting. I was hoping you'd find a unique set of sounds for it in future...but I've also wanted to advertise myself as a possible help to the mod for ages! I once worked with a guy on his small-time mod project, and I dabbled with a bunch of coding and produced my own sound effects, which I took from Doom, PSX Doom and several other games, but edited and modified in some way to sound different and original. Here's some examples of what I made (the broken elevator sound is one of my best pieces, lol)

It would be a dream to be taken on board to contribute anything to this mod, and if you need some sound effects made, I could be your guy :biggrin:
Legendary soul music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MbtEecMTXU

Legendary Tormentor music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9dNrmGD7mU

Legendary Redeemer Music : I didn't find it yet
Thanks, I would have done it but I've been really busy lately.
I didn't be able to find leg redeemer music btw legendary then u got some time we need you in the irc pls

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#172

Post by Legendary » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:49 pm

Oh sure, I might have some time to get on later today.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#173

Post by Gibs » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:04 am

I recently was working on a legendary rail gun but got carried away and ended up with this.
Hopefully you guys can be able to add it in somewhere :D, I have, empty/ready/fire/and holdfire frames finished for it. just shoot me a message if you'd like to use it and ill send you the zipped frames. thanks!

[spoiler]Image Image Image[/spoiler]
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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#174

Post by Killer2 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:07 am

It doesn't really look like a railgun though. Maybe a legendary version of the freezer rifle or a replacement for the legendary rifle sprites.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#175

Post by Gibs » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:11 am

yeah i gots a bit carried away lol, it charges up, who knows it could be a BFG variant!

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#176

Post by Killer2 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:14 am

I guess it could work as a BFG, but I like the current legBFG :/
Yours is more gold and blue though, so I guess it fits a lot better thematically.

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#177

Post by Gibs » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:00 pm

I got it legendary freezer BFG :D

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#178

Post by tarrasqueSorcerer » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:48 pm

Here's an idea.
I think people have complained about leg fatso's homing slow shots lasting way too long and forcing players to hide and sit on their hands for a while and so on.
You can solve this by making those projectiles shootable and destroyable - so they require your attention anyway but don't force you to run or hide for their whole duration.
That shouldn't be hard to do. Here's an example of a shootable projectile for reference (taken from BURL TUMD):
[spoiler]

Code: Select all

Actor AgitatingFireball : RevenantTracer replaces RevenantTracer 
{ 
	Health 25
	Damage 0
	speed 15
	RadiusDamageFactor 0 
	+GHOST 
	+THRUGHOST 
	+SHOOTABLE 
	-NOBLOCKMAP 
	+NOBLOOD
	deathsound ""
	Mass 9999 
	states
	{
	Spawn:
		FATB A 0 A_JumpIfCloser(20, "Death")
		FATB A 2 Bright A_Tracer2
		FATB A 0 A_SpawnItemEx("BulletPuff2")
		FATB A 0 A_JumpIfCloser(20, "Death")
		FATB B 2 Bright A_Tracer2
		FATB A 0 A_SpawnItemEx("BulletPuff2")
		loop
	Death:
		FBXP A 0 A_PlaySound("weapons/rocklx")
		FBXP A 0 A_Explode(25, 32, 1, 0, 32)
		FBXP A 8 Bright
		FBXP B 6 Bright
		FBXP C 4 Bright
		Stop
	}
}
I think critical parts are Health, +SHOOTABLE, -NOBLOCKMAP, +NOBLOOD, and high Mass.[/spoiler]

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#179

Post by fr blood » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:25 pm

@Gibs that a beautiful weapon here! But as some people said it doesn't looks like a railgun, and we don't need anymore railgun IMO, but you can be sure that I could make a good use of that weapon for LCA, just send me a PM when you think it's ready.

@tarrasqueSorcerer a simple very good idea :)

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[WIP] Re: Complex Doom: LCA (Legendary Complex Addon)

#180

Post by Gibs » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:13 am

Thanks Blood! yeah the railgun was my original plan but I changed it lol im thinking BFG type legendary freezer that releases ice phantoms (like the velocerator necronomicon) upon exploding and/or either spawns ice columns around your target. BUT! your welcome to do whatever ideas you'd like to. I'm just glad to contribute. ;D I have just the Weapon item sprite and ammo item sprite to finish (and possible sounds) and ill send it your way! :D

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