Zandronum

A small map for 2 players with lots of height variation. Trying to create some more ns duel maps because there is a severe lack thereof.
There's not a lot of room horizontally but there is vertically. Software users beware :P
It doesn't play like your average OS duel map because that's the point, so keep an open mind and give me some feedpack if possible.

Old Screenshots:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]


http://wikisend.com/download/484534/nsduel_alpha3.pk3

there just needs to be more NS in general it baffles me people still have such a hardon for OS in a NS port.

The map has too much height variance along with small/thin hallways/pathways/rooms/everything, doom is too fast paced for this type of design to flourish. Also too much height variance can be a bad thing.

Razgriz wrote:The map has too much height variance along with small/thin hallways/pathways/rooms/everything, doom is too fast paced for this type of design to flourish. Also too much height variance can be a bad thing.

Don't see any problems regarding this. Except that bots can't play on this map.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

mr fiat wrote:there just needs to be more NS in general it baffles me people still have such a hardon for OS in a NS port.

NS port doesn't make much sense as it's adapted to all styles, but yeah, we need more NS orientated stuff.

Doomenator wrote:

Razgriz wrote:The map has too much height variance along with small/thin hallways/pathways/rooms/everything, doom is too fast paced for this type of design to flourish. Also too much height variance can be a bad thing.

Don't see any problems regarding this. Except that bots can't play on this map.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

There is a lot of things wrong with this map. Saying there is nothing wrong with this map is giving fritz the wrong type of critique. Are you a competent OS/NS dueler? No? Well how in the world are you suppose to know what is and isn't wrong with a duel map?

Since it's an Alpha, there is time to improve all the many things needing improvement.

This map is so damn cramped, it makes map01 feel like Greenwar20. The hallways and doorways are tight and it is very easy to get snagged on detail and corners. Using two textures causes everything to look the same and makes the map feel nauseating. But, I'm sure you'll fix this issue next release right?

I don't know how much of an issue the large heights are because the lack of breathing room in the map is a much larger problem.

Razgriz wrote:There is a lot of things wrong with this map. Saying there is nothing wrong with this map is giving fritz the wrong type of critique. Are you a competent OS/NS dueler? No? Well how in the world are you suppose to know what is and isn't wrong with a duel map?

I can play and feel comfortable on any map unlike competent OS/NS duelers.
If someone thinks that Doom still needs to be relatively flat and spacious, it's his problem in this case.
Perhaps this map is made specifically to destroy dull stereotypes. And criticism can be any. IMHO.

Doomenator wrote:I can play and feel comfortable on any map unlike competent OS/NS duelers.
If someone thinks that Doom still needs to be relatively flat and spacious, it's his problem in this case.
Perhaps this map is made specifically to destroy dull stereotypes. And criticism can be any. IMHO.

Nah it's not very good and it needs fixing. I will wait for next version to see what he does with it if there is another version.

I agree, it definitely needs fixing. The fact this map is pretty high and narrow would kinda obstruct gameplay. Plus the lack of variations in texture would make it even harder to play.
Another thing that bothers me is how would I be able to see my opponents sprite when aiming full down?

Also Doomenator, being comfortable on any map doesn't forcefully mean you're pretty good at them; in fact your way of playing duel or seeing it as a gamemode that consists of running around randomly like a zombie, not giving a shit about what's going on and picking up everything that crosses your path would have an impact on the correct way the map should be played. Unlike FFA there's alot more than "running randomly".

Thanks for the feedback, the experiment of this map was the height difference with multiple floors so i'm keeping that. I'll widen stuff up and add some texture variation and see how that goes.
In regards to looking down, i guess x/y sprite rotation?

Probably yeah. Unless you use Voxels :p

Frits wrote:Thanks for the feedback, the experiment of this map was the height difference with multiple floors so i'm keeping that. I'll widen stuff up and add some texture variation and see how that goes.
In regards to looking down, i guess x/y sprite rotation?

thing is x/y sprite rotation is OGL only, and i dont think everyone uses OGL.

software can't look down so we never have to worry

#swproblems

Kara Kurt wrote:Also Doomenator, being comfortable on any map doesn't forcefully mean you're pretty good at them; in fact your way of playing duel or seeing it as a gamemode that consists of running around randomly like a zombie, not giving a shit about what's going on and picking up everything that crosses your path would have an impact on the correct way the map should be played. Unlike FFA there's alot more than "running randomly".

Some people are well oriented in space while others cannot play in games such as Descent. First do not care what textures around, for the second this map will be a problem in any case.
Don't know how good I am in Doom now, but I have 23 years of experience in various FPS games. Doom, Quake, Quake 2, Quake III, Unreal Tournament, CSS (in active).
To me it is impossible to impose someone else's opinion, because I have my own. You can convince me? Try.
And for that would not running randomly, just study the map.

Doomenator wrote:

Kara Kurt wrote:Also Doomenator, being comfortable on any map doesn't forcefully mean you're pretty good at them; in fact your way of playing duel or seeing it as a gamemode that consists of running around randomly like a zombie, not giving a shit about what's going on and picking up everything that crosses your path would have an impact on the correct way the map should be played. Unlike FFA there's alot more than "running randomly".

Some people are well oriented in space while others cannot play in games such as Descent. First do not care what textures around, for the second this map will be a problem in any case.
Don't know how good I am in Doom now, but I have 23 years of experience in various FPS games. Doom, Quake, Quake 2, Quake III, Unreal Tournament, CSS (in active).
To me it is impossible to impose someone else's opinion, because I have my own. You can convince me? Try.
And for that would not running randomly, just study the map.

Feels to me you're rationalizing flaws as "innovations", implying ppl are not competent to play this map, etc.
Sure it may be your opinion which you are entitled to, but shooting down others' peoples criticisms by telling them to "deal w/it" is not only impolite, but you are also totally doing the opposite of helping the author. As a rule people will not adapt to what they do not like and the author needs to find the best implementation for what they have.
In this case I agree with what people said, this map is VERY cramped. the height variation could be acceptible however if this map were much bigger (at least 2x wide and even more in some areas).
Layout and weapon / item placement was pretty nice, it felt like a scaled down quake map which if given correct dimensions could be interesting tbh.
I am Waiting for the new version Gerald

Convincing someone is one thing, teaching him is another thing. As far as you can understand the mechanics and everything dueling involve the rest (skill, tactics, etc) might come later.

Doomenator wrote:

Kara Kurt wrote:Also Doomenator, being comfortable on any map doesn't forcefully mean you're pretty good at them; in fact your way of playing duel or seeing it as a gamemode that consists of running around randomly like a zombie, not giving a shit about what's going on and picking up everything that crosses your path would have an impact on the correct way the map should be played. Unlike FFA there's alot more than "running randomly".

Some people are well oriented in space while others cannot play in games such as Descent. First do not care what textures around, for the second this map will be a problem in any case.
Don't know how good I am in Doom now, but I have 23 years of experience in various FPS games. Doom, Quake, Quake 2, Quake III, Unreal Tournament, CSS (in active).

So because you have, '23 years of experience', you suddenly have the authority to tell people their feedback and criticism is invalid? What a nice and productive attitude to have. This is the first step into making people disregard what you have to say.

Perhaps you should have spent more of those 23 years interacting with people rather than sit and play video games.

Alright since this is quite an experimental map and because everyone's biggest complaint was the size I made a minimal example map just to test the size.
I've done this because the map has over 200 3D floors and changing it is impossible because everything overlaps like 3 times. I have to do it from scratch every time so i'd rather get the size right before polishing.

If anyone is interested is the new size too large/small? It feels to me now that i made everything wider it's really stretched out but that's doom i guess.
http://wikisend.com/download/354628/nsduel_SIZETEST.pk3

PS: pls no derail

The test is a nicer improvement, though if you feel it's too stretched out, I would say the area where you could make a little bit smaller would be the two circular rooms. Otherwise the map is fine, it feels big partially because there is 2 additional floors but overall the floors are small themselves.