[FINAL] [DM] Morgenstern - Released!

[Catastrophe]

wtf did you do to map14? its unplayable http://i.imgur.com/V5P1rgt.png had to task manager out


is there any particular reason why u need to add this much detail??? http://i.imgur.com/FBW1G4p.png no on in their right mind will ever leave the main base..... wtf are you thinking???


are u really forcing ppl to swim this far for a rocketlauncer http://i.imgur.com/ifdspRX.jpg when there already is one in the base??? http://i.imgur.com/Kn1Ai8q.png

the amount wrong in this wad is just.... incomprehensible idk if i should even bother giving feedback there is almost no logic that was put into this map..... idk what to say

[Combinebobnt]

Wow ppl quoting me when I'm trying to be nice, too late tho cuz troublemaker number 2 starting stuff as usual. That quote is true though.

Ok Tiger I've been keeping half an eye on this project and I'm going to give you some advice that will hurt but you REALLY need it. Prepare yourself and set aside your emotions for a moment: The problem with this project isn't taking criticism or anything like that, you've been fairly receptive and that's good. The real problem is at the core of planning and executing a project, which to be honest, is at an F+ rating here. You have a 100+ mb wad with maps bigger than some in boomtown.wad, have no good reason for not working in Zandronum 2.0 (fog actors with unnecessary +ACTORFLAGS, dumb detail stuff, and pointless hud editions are not good reasons to keep your wad unplayable without beta versions or other ports. GZDoom is NOT a multiplayer port), targets quake-like gameplay without solid foundation (trying to establish a new standard is tough bro), is generally laggy due to overdetail, playtested with bots instead of players, unclear development and releases (look at all the above posts questioning download links and beta version crap), expecting ordinary players to download off of github (so what if it isn't hard to use? provide a direct download ALWAYS. deathmatch is a gamemode where you need more players, and stupid easy = more players), and possibly a questionable map quality as LAST (I didn't play any of the maps so I can't comment.)

So yes, "Everything that could go wrong, did.'" What to do? You can do whatever you want. You could make 64 maps in the same style and release a 666 mb wad and it doesn't matter. This is MUTLIplayer. The 'I can do whatever I want and you can accept it or leave' mentality does not work for multiplayer unlike how it might fly in the zdoom forums or whatever. Why? Because if nobody accepts it, you get 0 net players. Deathmatch requires 2+ players for a game (not bots either). Even if people are straight up wrong about a project's direction or something trivial, they still contribute to a lack of playercount: Who is the real winner if you never give in sometimes?

Here is my most recommended plan for you to continue with a multiplayer mapping career. You don't have to follow it exactly or at all, but that's honestly not my problem. My post is this long because I'm here to help.

• Fix any immediate game-breaking bugs and remove unnecessary filesize bloat. Aeons of Death is in the 100's of mb's because it has shit tons of stuff. This project is just 16 maps, no excuse.
• Counter-intuitively STOP work on this project after that, and release what you have as a final version. Some things are just not worth saving, a tough lesson to learn. Then again, I read you deleted 31 maps before or something, so you should be able to cope with this step.
• Play a little bit of deathmatch with players (not bots!) to know what the hell you are mapping for in the first place. #deathmatch will be happy to help you play some games. You can look at other wads to see how they are good and whatever, but I'm sure you know that already.
• After a little bit of play time, then it is time to START SMALL. No more big projects allowed. Map numbers should not reach double digits.
• You need to make small projects and reach a CONSISTENT decent quality to them. Imitation is not a vice here, it is encouraged. You can be inspired by pretend vanilla or try a lazarus 3 or whatever. Don't get caught up in a cobweb of management, detail, or 'new' crap, and just keep it simple, please! Hell you can even try speedmapping. Speedmapping forces you to consider and implement what makes maps good and to cut everything excess and dumb detail. This may help or hurt you. You won't know until you try.
• Make packs like these until they start becoming good. This is where criticism from the community comes into play. Small packs keep you from investing too much time into a shitty project; if it sucks, quit and make something better!
• After you are consistently making good stuff, that's when you try for a big project like this with 'new radical quake gameplay' and crazy crap.

I hope this post helps you and you seriously consider what I wrote. Remember, you can't chase a dream if you don't know how to run first.

[Tiger]

I think the biggest problem is - that I am not elaborating as to what I have planned. But could you exactly blame me for it? You could say yes and maybe you're right. But for so long in development hell with this project, I get excited that its moving along closer to its final release.

have no good reason for not working in Zandronum 2.0 (

I believe I ran into UDMF issues before the assets rolled in; Zandronum's engine is ancient compared to the latest developments with (G)ZDoom. If I were to focus on specifically Zandronum 2.x, I would have to ultimately drop UDMF for Hexen. In turn, then I would have manually align and resize textures as-well as work around UDMF only features specifically - which I will not do. Zandronum 3.x engine look promising and getting close to - what this project needs.

(look at all the above posts questioning download links and beta version crap), expecting ordinary players to download off of github

No. The download has never moved from the original topic. If I left the download buried in posts, then its merely just that - buried. No one is going to be willing to dig through posts for a download link when it could be already there in the front page. Moverover, I don't understand why people are assuming that they should compile it themselves for an announced beta, rather pointless direction. The filesysetm used on the project's GitHub does NOT follow ZDoom's archive standards -- the build that I provided does follow the standard. My next phases in development is the wiki, so compiling will finally be feasible for users who wish too.

Fix any immediate game-breaking bugs and remove unnecessary filesize bloat. Aeons of Death is in the 100's of mb's because it has shit tons of stuff. This project is just 16 maps, no excuse.

This will be done and already has been planned (since 2013 when the texture format was standardized in the project, to be a little precise). I am not going to bother wasting my time on filtering on each beta release -- wasting a few days work to make a filtered build is not worth it. I could possibly (and still debating) on doing REGEX and push it through the compiler, but - this could take weeks to finally get something stable. The priority for this complaint is low, there's still other parts of this project that needs more attention.

Play a little bit of deathmatch with players (not bots!) to know what the hell you are mapping for in the first place.

The lack of testers that I need for this project - does in fact hurt, and I would love to have testers provide as much feedback as possible. However, with the current maps - its long past. However, when I and if I create more maps for this project, I will need testers again.

After a little bit of play time, then it is time to START SMALL. No more big projects allowed. Map numbers should not reach double digits.

Would you like to see smaller maps as opposed to the current stock set? How many players should be focused? If 8, I could see what I can do. Luckily, I have plenty of grid paper

is there any particular reason why u need to add this much detail??? http://i.imgur.com/FBW1G4p.png no on in their right mind will ever leave the main base..... wtf are you thinking???

You are precisely correct! That map (MAP15) and MAP14 are reject maps; ie. WHAT NOT TODO. You might be asking yourself "WHY THE FUCKING HELL DID YOU INCLUDE IT THEN IN THE FIRST PLACE?!", that is because I will re-centralize the maps to a hub. Thus, maps such as those will be categorized and optional.
MAP14, MAP15, and MAP16 were maps that I - I guess finding my style; finding a balance of what works and what doesn't. MAP16's layout doesn't feel 'exactly' like a DM map, but that is merely my view.


Thanks for the feedback everyone!

[Dynamo]

I believe I ran into UDMF issues before the assets rolled in; Zandronum's engine is ancient compared to the latest developments with (G)ZDoom. If I were to focus on specifically Zandronum 2.x, I would have to ultimately drop UDMF for Hexen. In turn, then I would have manually align and resize textures as-well as work around UDMF only features specifically - which I will not do. Zandronum 3.x engine look promising and getting close to - what this project needs.

Err..... uhhhhhhhhhhh. What? I am 99.999999999999999% positive Zandronum 2.0 supports UDMF perfectly fine (I've played UDMF maps on it), in fact, I believe UDMF has been fully supported for a long, long time, even in relatively ancient versions of skulltag. What the hell are you on about?

As I use primarily GZDoom

This is without a doubt the most disappointing statement one could come up with when it comes to this thread. The sole fact you acknowledge this, without even the slightest hint of embarassment, makes me truly wonder why you would even consider making a DM wad. You are testing a MULTIPLAYER WAD INTENDED FOR ZANDRONUM with gzdoom. Then you act surprised when people point out bugs and flaws that you weren't aware of, and you also complain about the lack of testers when evidently, it is you in the first place who is incapable of properly testing this project.

I would highly advise to stop making deathmatch packs. Sorry to say but evidently you don't know how to develop one. Refurbish it for coop or something as it may have potential there.

[Catastrophe]

This will be done and already has been planned (since 2013 when the texture format was standardized in the project, to be a little precise). I am not going to bother wasting my time on filtering on each beta release -- wasting a few days work to make a filtered build is not worth it. I could possibly (and still debating) on doing REGEX and push it through the compiler, but - this could take weeks to finally get something stable. The priority for this complaint is low, there's still other parts of this project that needs more attention.

Is it really that hard to just remove songs you aren't using?

[Tiger]

Err..... uhhhhhhhhhhh. What? I am 99.999999999999999% positive Zandronum 2.0 supports UDMF perfectly fine (I've played UDMF maps on it), in fact, I believe UDMF has been fully supported for a long, long time, even in relatively ancient versions of skulltag. What the hell are you on about?

You might be right about Zandronum 2.0 support with UDMF, looking at some old posts and notes - the chief complaint was with Zandronum 1.x series when it came to UDMF and missing map geometry. However, it looks like Zandronum 2.x is not possible anyways due the Player Starts on 3D Floors and assets. Following up with Abandoned Misery thread
I apologize if I provided incorrect information about Zandronum 2.x's UDMF support, though do keep in mind I can't fully test every map with said engine.

EDIT [5April2016]
Correction; Zandronum (including SkullTag) does indeed have issues with UDMF

• UDMF-Based Vertex Slopes do not work.
• UDMF Line Scale Property broken

Which this project also requires.



Here is a small - yet old - image of Abandoned Misery using Zandronum 1.x

You are testing a MULTIPLAYER WAD INTENDED FOR ZANDRONUM with gzdoom.

Incorrect. GZDoom is the main target, which its derivatives also get support - if the child-ports are modernized. Zandronum falls right into the spectrum, which again - the next major version looks very promising and I am looking forward to its final release -- I have tried to intentionally hold off adding new features so TGRDM3 will stay compatible with Zandronum 3.0.

you also complain about the lack of testers when evidently, it is you in the first place who is incapable of properly testing this project.

I am not really complaining, but acknowledging that it is indeed a problem.

Is it really that hard to just remove songs you aren't using?

To address the issue efficiently, the music files are not the only data that takes up a lot of space. Unused textures would be the second heavy hitter in wasteful space, with that - I would need to use REGEX to filter out what is needed from the unused textures. The music files would merely have to go through this exact method as-well.

Honestly, at this point anything said to Tiger is a waste of text, and even more honestly anything said for this project is a waste of time and text too. Nobody will play it, Tiger thinks you guys are retarded, and all advice is worthless. Good game.

Thanks for your help and negative feedback that doesn't with making this project better. I'll keep this for all to see through-out my generalized careers, and I'll give you full credit! :)



EDIT: (5 April. 2016)
Added note that Zandronum\SkullTag doesn't fully support UDMF at the fullest yet as some claim it to be.

[The Toxic Avenger]

Cut it out, all of you.

[Ru5tK1ng]

Hmm, I'm not so sure Decay. I briefly went through his latest wad and I noticed he did listen to some of the feedback. He got rid of the fall damage and fixed most of his jump pads. Some of the later maps attempt to have a different look as opposed to everything being Quake1. I think I saw a few smaller maps instead of the large Single Player type maps as well.

Keep in mind whenever someone gives feedback on a product, they aren't entitled to anything. An author/creator can either ignore, listen or pick and choose said feedback. That's how it is and that's how it always will be. Whatever path he decides to travel in regards to his project development will route to the appropriate outcome.

[Tiger]

Good news, everyone!

I have just published a new beta build!

Some changes:

• Moved Shane Strife's music to an external package
• Added Project Doom midi's to the main project package.
• Compression and even more compression
• Changed the rain ambiance sound to something a bit more fitting.

>> DOWNLOAD <<

[Catastrophe]

24 MBs, thank you tiger. Will be checking this out soon.

[Tiger]

24 MBs, thank you tiger.

I hope this works for everyone. There's really not much more that I can do about the size of the main package as I hit a limit.

[Tiger]

[...]and fixed most of his jump pads. [...]

Thanks to Torr Samaho and Graf Zahl, I think the next build that I will release sometime tomorrow should correct the jumping pads once and for all - I hope. So far, this script seems to hold just fine. Though, I would highly encourage testing to be sure that the jumping pad are actually working as intended.

Also, I think very soon I can officially drop (TESTED) from Zandronum 3.0 ;)

[Tiger]

A new build is now available!

List of changes:

• Added BotSkillPicName property (for Zandronum only)
• Revised most of the jump pads

NOTE:
There's currently a bug with one of the jump pads with Zandronum, this is known and reported.

Together, we can make jump pads great again!
>> DOWNLOADS <<

[Tiger]

A new build is now available!

List of changes:

• Added Voxels!
• Added player jumping sound.
• Tried to standardize ammunition
  • This changes Skill Levels; all previously defined skill's have been thrashed for 'Standard' which uses 'Nightmare' GameSkill.
• Revised Item Respawning Timers
  • Weapons now spawn every 5 seconds instead of 30 seconds
  • Spheres now take 40 seconds to respawn
  • Health and Armour bonuses respawn at 20 seconds
  • All else is 30 seconds
• Added help screens
• Added Intermission screens
• Revised the grenade's gravity
• Changing weapons is now slightly faster
• Minor fixes

>> DOWNLOADS <<

[Tiger]

A new minor build is now available:

List of changes:

• The railgun now reloads, this behavior is adjacent SkullTag's Railgun.
• Fixed THING Z-Height placements in map Adios.

>> DOWNLOADS <<

[Tiger]

A new beta is now available, though the changes are merely within the internal project and most of them wont be entirely noticed - while others will be noticed. With this beta, I think the internal core is ready - and after testing, I don't think I'll add any new features. Thus, this could be the last beta build. Please let me know of any bugs that you come across and anything that might need to be changed.

Additionally, I have also constructed a wiki for this project. I have provided information as to what maps are included, recommended hosting DMFlags, and even compiling the TGRDM3 project. So please take a gander at the project's wiki! :)


List of Changes

• Added Music Player
  • This feature plays all the supported songs and transitions to the next song after approximately 1.30 minute, using SetMusicVolume as a fader.
• Added more remix midi songs from Project Doom. Any music that was defined for the maps in the ZMAPINFO has been removed.
• Added Console Background
• Added Title Screen
• Added StartUp Script
• Revised help UI to include 'R_DrawVoxels'. Thanks to Dark-Assassin for pointing this out
• Enforce SPRITE viewing angles
• Added Statues [Not Used at this moment]
• Added $Angled && $NotAngled for GZDB editor
• Fixed a typo in ZMAPINFO property 'DimAount' -> "DimAmount'. Thanks to Kappes Buur for pointing this out
• Removed Shane Strife's music. Explanation provided here
• Revised intermission music
• Revised player speed; from .85 ~> 1.0.
• Split SNDINFO to individual files for convenience.
• Player now screams when falling at a certain speed.
• Updated map Artis to provide a longer fall.
• Added Proximity doors; they will now open if the player is close to them, adjacent to Quake 3.
• Revised doors to point to a new script 'StdDoors', which is designed to unify their functionality.

>> DOWNLOADS <<

[Tiger]

[*] Again, if you are going for Quake 3 why are you not encouraging rocket jumping? That's way too much self-damage.

Looks like this very idea is on hold as a Feature Request. Until then, there's not much I can do to address this remark.

[Ænima]

TNT1 A 0 A_Explode(64,128,1)
TNT1 A 0 A_Explode(64,128,0)


Try that?

[Sean]

TNT1 A 0 A_Explode(64,128,1)
TNT1 A 0 A_Explode(64,128,0)


Try that?

If you like code to be readable:

Code: Select all

TNT1 A 0 A_Explode(64, 128, XF_HURTSOURCE)
TNT1 A 0 A_Explode(64, 128, 0)

[Combinebobnt]

You guys forgot that doesn't retain the original jump height. Here is how 2 fix:

ACTOR morgensteinplayer{
//apparently damagefactoring an explosion takes away damage but not thrust, same way HNS does it
damagefactor "oyeababyatriple", 0.5 //xd meme
}

ACTOR newrockkit{
damagetype "oyeababyatriple"
Damage 20*2 //don't forget missile impact damage!
states// (there are 50)
{
TNT1 A 0 A_Explode(128, 128, XF_HURTSOURCE) //explosion part
TNT1 A 0 A_Explode(128, 128, 0)
}
}

Tiger's link however IS STILL VALID, because this destroys the cooperative balance :-( ;-(. doesn't matter in a dm-only project of course