[FINAL] [DM] Morgenstern - Released!

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
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[FINAL] [DM] Morgenstern - Released!

Post#1 by Tiger » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:38 pm

Returning Readers
  • News: Finally uploaded to /idgames! (18.September.2016)
    Downloads


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Morgenstern is a project that focuses on the Deathmatch game mode while utilizing GZDoom's OpenGL specific features, such as lighting, 3D sloped floors, and rendering optimizations. This project tries to reimagine the Deathmatch scene in Doom by importing some of the ideas from Quake 3 Arena, such as weapons that the players use and how the maps are structured. In addition, this project contains maps of various sizes. To elaborate further, some maps can fit eight players nicely while others requires a larger audience of at least sixteen players. Though, there does exist some maps that are designed for two players or four players.

Feel free to share your feedback, I will try to routinely check this topic while the project is still in active development.


Requirements:


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Last edited by Tiger on Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:15 pm, edited 20 times in total.

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[FINAL] RE: [DM] Morgenstern

Post#2 by -_- » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:14 pm

Wow nice finally theres a maps that can rival with the best DM pack "awesome DM". GL with this.

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[FINAL] RE: [DM] Morgenstern

Post#3 by Decay » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:41 pm

Looks nice but does it play nice?

2 things. #1 if some maps require 16 players to enjoy, they are bad maps. I forget who said it, I think it was Bob, but every dm starts with a duel. Where are you going to get 16 players other than fnf? I'll tell you right now that maps suited for even 10+ players are simply too big to enjoy, and you will not have people playing them. Aim for a majority of maps that aims to support 6-8, 8 on the upper end because those always tend to be the most enjoyed. Most pub dm games do not exceed 10-12 players at their height (fnf excepted).

#2 in part addition to this, if the maps are OGL only/recommended, I want to reinforce the idea of shrinking some because you've already cut down your potential playerbase by doing this. Are 3D slopes REALLY that necessary?

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[FINAL] RE: [DM] Morgenstern

Post#4 by Ænima » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:05 pm

Wow, looks a little Sabbyt Martyr-ish with a pinch of GothicDM. I like the 3D floors too.

The lighting looks great too, but what's going on with the fog near the sky in that 3rd shot?
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[FINAL] RE: [DM] Morgenstern

Post#5 by Tiger » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:42 am

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I've responded to Decay's post in this thread, for those wondering.

Ænima wrote:The lighting looks great too, but what's going on with the fog near the sky in that 3rd shot?


That would be a point light combined with the fog, which - gives that effect.

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[FINAL] RE: [DM] Morgenstern

Post#6 by Tiger » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:19 am

Just letting everyone know that this project is still going strong. I only have one last map to build and complete, this project is officially at 90% completion rate. I am hoping to have an official beta build near the end of next month.

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[FINAL] RE: [DM] Morgenstern

Post#7 by Tiger » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:02 pm

Hallo,

Just letting everyone know that I am targeting Monday 14.March.2016 for the first beta release.

TODO List:
  • Finish working on the last map. <MILESTONE>
  • Update compiler to work with Bootless Star 1.5.4; implement Git functionality
  • Plan patches and beta rollouts; ease transitions with minimal effort for end-users.



What to expect in First Beta:

Regards,

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[FINAL] RE: [DM] Morgenstern

Post#8 by Decay » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:13 pm

You couldn't wait until putting out a beta before posting? Bad hype.

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[FINAL] Re: RE: [DM] Morgenstern

Post#9 by Tiger » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:34 pm

Decay wrote:You couldn't wait until putting out a beta before posting? Bad hype.


Oh my, this is going to be even worse hype that I have ever done then.... I just uploaded the first beta.... This is very disappointing and depressing.... I am sorry :(
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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#10 by Decay » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:41 pm

140 MB? Unless you provide a really good reason for this, fuck that.

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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#11 by Ru5tK1ng » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:19 pm

There is no reason to download it because it crashes Zandronum and ZDoom with a script error.

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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#12 by Tiger » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:29 pm

Ru5tK1ng wrote:There is no reason to download it because it crashes Zandronum and ZDoom with a script error.


Please read carefully:
Requirements:

If you use Zandronum 2.x, then obviously this wont work. Adjacent to running this with ZDaemon or Odamex, it wont work. I retested this with GZDoom 2.1.1, Zandronum 3.0 Alpha (r160229-1221), and even ZDoom 2.8.1, everything works for me. So again, please read carefully next time.
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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#13 by Ru5tK1ng » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:44 pm

My bad, the requirements slipped my mind due to the fact the beta was released several weeks after the topic. Ya know, the opposite of what people normally do.

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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#14 by Decay » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:58 pm

Who cares what it needs to run, it's not worth downloading anyway at 140 mb. I can't think of a single good reason for that. The 3.0 alpha is required for what exactly that could not be stripped down for this supposed demo?

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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#15 by Catastrophe » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:30 am

Okay first impression wise I'm thoroughly disappointed.

  • The changes to vanilla weapons are trash. What is the point of removing the reload from SSG? That makes it even more ridiculous than my own weapons mod rofl.
  • Speaking of which, if you intend for this to be a newschool mod, why on earth are you using default sprites with such trash animations? Look at this awful railgun, it doesn't even reload. Actually, WHY are you even bothering using sprites from Doom2 at all if the animations are just gonna be a downgrade? That is not the spirit of newschool.
  • Now some of you might be wondering from the railgun screenshot about why my sbar looks odd, it's because it is downright broken. And yes, I tried setting hud_scale true/false. Playing on fullscreen hud gives you this (also bad because the number overlaps the weapon).
  • So far the weapons themselves seem like a downgrade mixed with cop-out and downright laziness.
  • The maps were looking decent, but god damn please don't ever add bouncy pads, they are broken. Yours doesn't even work.
  • Falling damage is a terrible idea. Why.
  • I actually liked this until I realized teleporting holds you in-place. Fucking why? If you are going for a Quake3 feel, the last thing it should be doing is holding you in place.
  • Detailing wise the maps are excellent. But its laggy, too laggy. Even with dynamic lights off. I *highly* doubt this will get played actively, but we'll see.
  • Why did you change the slots of all the weapons? They're still Doom/Skulltag weapons. Absolutely pointless.
  • I think jumppads like this should have some particle fountains, they look kind of plain.
  • I'm a bit lost, is this supposed to be played with Skulltag Jump physics? Because currently with the default physics it is absolute garbage. If you are going for Quake 3, why would you not use Skulltag jump physics? The maps are way too big for you to adequately move around w/o bunny hopping.
  • Again, if you are going for Quake 3 why are you not encouraging rocket jumping? That's way too much self-damage.
  • I like what you did here with the smoke effects, it looks nice.
  • You know this map was looking nice until I realized you get instantly killed by water. Fucking water. Have you never played Doom 2? There is a reason damaging floors aren't water.
  • The grenade launcher sucks ass. Why even place this in large maps when its travel distance is pathetic?
  • I really cannot emphasize this enough, you need to make your weapons feel good. They are just so lackluster and boring that I might just fall asleep playing this. Look at terminus's video about this, it might help. You can also take a look at my weapons mod and see how I made the weapons feel good if you want. Stay away from weapon kickbacks/pitch adjustion, the last thing you want to do is mess up someones aim.
  • I guess my main gripe is that this mappack is too slow paced. The weapons suck, and the player movement is just ass.
  • Aside from the two smokey maps, all the maps just look the same. It's like plutonia all over again, you need to diversify the theme of this wad instead of having a generic brown/quakish theme.
  • Why aren't you de-randomizing the weapons? The damage should not be dealing random damage, imo. The chaingun is actually pretty OP for a starting weapon if you RNG hard enough.

Aaaand that's all I have to say. The maps are good, but everything else sucks. I'd give it a 4/10 at its current state.

Edit: ROFL why the fuck are you bloating up the wad with a bunch of songs you aren't even using???? NO WONDER this is 140 mb. What the fuck dude?

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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#16 by Tiger » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:26 am

Catastrophe wrote:Okay first impression wise I'm thoroughly disappointed.
Spoiler (Open)
  • The changes to vanilla weapons are trash. What is the point of removing the reload from SSG? That makes it even more ridiculous than my own weapons mod rofl.
  • Speaking of which, if you intend for this to be a newschool mod, why on earth are you using default sprites with such trash animations? Look at this awful railgun, it doesn't even reload. Actually, WHY are you even bothering using sprites from Doom2 at all if the animations are just gonna be a downgrade? That is not the spirit of newschool.
  • Now some of you might be wondering from the railgun screenshot about why my sbar looks odd, it's because it is downright broken. And yes, I tried setting hud_scale true/false. Playing on fullscreen hud gives you this (also bad because the number overlaps the weapon).
  • So far the weapons themselves seem like a downgrade mixed with cop-out and downright laziness.
  • The maps were looking decent, but god damn please don't ever add bouncy pads, they are broken. Yours doesn't even work.
  • Falling damage is a terrible idea. Why.
  • I actually liked this until I realized teleporting holds you in-place. Fucking why? If you are going for a Quake3 feel, the last thing it should be doing is holding you in place.
  • Detailing wise the maps are excellent. But its laggy, too laggy. Even with dynamic lights off. I *highly* doubt this will get played actively, but we'll see.
  • Why did you change the slots of all the weapons? They're still Doom/Skulltag weapons. Absolutely pointless.
  • I think jumppads like this should have some particle fountains, they look kind of plain.
  • I'm a bit lost, is this supposed to be played with Skulltag Jump physics? Because currently with the default physics it is absolute garbage. If you are going for Quake 3, why would you not use Skulltag jump physics? The maps are way too big for you to adequately move around w/o bunny hopping.
  • Again, if you are going for Quake 3 why are you not encouraging rocket jumping? That's way too much self-damage.
  • I like what you did here with the smoke effects, it looks nice.
  • You know this map was looking nice until I realized you get instantly killed by water. Fucking water. Have you never played Doom 2? There is a reason damaging floors aren't water.
  • The grenade launcher sucks ass. Why even place this in large maps when its travel distance is pathetic?
  • I really cannot emphasize this enough, you need to make your weapons feel good. They are just so lackluster and boring that I might just fall asleep playing this. Look at terminus's video about this, it might help. You can also take a look at my weapons mod and see how I made the weapons feel good if you want. Stay away from weapon kickbacks/pitch adjustion, the last thing you want to do is mess up someones aim.
  • I guess my main gripe is that this mappack is too slow paced. The weapons suck, and the player movement is just ass.
  • Aside from the two smokey maps, all the maps just look the same. It's like plutonia all over again, you need to diversify the theme of this wad instead of having a generic brown/quakish theme.
  • Why aren't you de-randomizing the weapons? The damage should not be dealing random damage, imo. The chaingun is actually pretty OP for a starting weapon if you RNG hard enough.


Aaaand that's all I have to say. The maps are good, but everything else sucks. I'd give it a 4/10 at its current state.

Edit: ROFL why the fuck are you bloating up the wad with a bunch of songs you aren't even using???? NO WONDER this is 140 mb. What the fuck dude?


Thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate the time you spent on this.


Now some of you might be wondering from the railgun screenshot about why my sbar looks odd, it's because it is downright broken. And yes, I tried setting hud_scale true/false. Playing on fullscreen hud gives you this (also bad because the number overlaps the weapon).

Are you positive that text scaling is disabled? I've had that issue before with other PWAD's when using Zandronum and I mistakenly or unknowingly had that enabled. To clarify unknowingly, I reused the GZDoom .ini file for Zandronum, the only thing that looked wonky - was what you mentioned.

The maps were looking decent, but god damn please don't ever add bouncy pads, they are broken. Yours doesn't even work.

This is one area that - I am unsure how to correct. The player's existing momentum appended when the 'Player Thrust' takes effect. If anyone knows how to resolve this, please let me know.

I actually liked this until I realized teleporting holds you in-place. Fucking why? If you are going for a Quake3 feel, the last thing it should be doing is holding you in place.

That is a good idea, I'll do some investigating first.

I think jumppads like this should have some particle fountains, they look kind of plain.

It's an idea that I will consider looking at.

I'm a bit lost, is this supposed to be played with Skulltag Jump physics? Because currently with the default physics it is absolute garbage. If you are going for Quake 3, why would you not use Skulltag jump physics? The maps are way too big for you to adequately move around w/o bunny hopping.

As I use primarily GZDoom, I would say stick with ZDoom's jumping physics. However, if SkullTag's jumping movement is better for you, by all means - use it.

Again, if you are going for Quake 3 why are you not encouraging rocket jumping? That's way too much self-damage.

I don't know how to pull this off myself, if anyone can submit a patch to do this, I will be willing to accept it.

ROFL why the fuck are you bloating up the wad with a bunch of songs you aren't even using???? NO WONDER this is 140 mb. What the fuck dude?

Of course the size will be further optimized for the project's final release ;)
Nicholas "Tiger" Gautier

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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#17 by Ru5tK1ng » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:29 am

Since I could not find anyone who could be arsed to download 3.0 to play this wad with me, I can only give first impressions.


Someone ripped off Quake 1, in a bad way.


Before I even get to the maps, I'll address a few other things.

- I didn't take a look at the code, so I'm assuming damage is vanilla, but the changes to the weapons seem awful for the most part. The grenades feel like they weight a ton and the railgun fires every second with little cool down in between. Trying to make the SSG like quake's just looks goofy and potentially it is even more over-powered. The SSG is literally the only weapon you do not want to change because people are very particular about how the SSG feels. SG and CG spreads are very bad if you did not change damage values. Removal of fist/pistol was fine however. No BFG in DM = No Fun

- Your jump pads are inconsistent. I couldn't tell if I needed to hold forward to reach my destination or simply hop on it. This resulted in either hitting something or falling short and taking damage or dying. In short, they are bad and break the flow in some spots.

- On average the fall damage is pretty minimal but I can't see any reason to even include it for a deathmatch pack. At some points in the middle of the pack, it just pisses me off.

- There is a Chaingun hovering in the automap

- It's probably my computer or my settings, but I lagged like hell in some maps due to the lighting effects. I'd rather play in SW even if it meant I couldn't see the sloped 3D floors just so I didn't get any FPS lag.

- The file size is fat as hell and as you see above, it's a deterrent to some people.

- OGG music is over 200 MB and I don't see any reason for it. I'd rather listen to actual good metal music as opposed to remixes of bad Bobby Prince metal rip offs.

- I hate death pits and voids where you die instantly. Some people love them, but having them every other map is tiring.


Maps

Map01: Texturing looks pretty decent with that Quake1 thing going on. However, the death pit is stupid as hell and the inner hallways on both floors all use the same texture and it gets disorienting and repetitive real quick. The blue jump pad in the western center of the map is trash.

Map02: Nice texturing and detail. The 2nd floor that connects to the soul sphere feels dull because it's almost mirrored on each side. The quake railgun gimmick you employed is annoying as hell. It's easy to fall short or fall off the edge of the railgun platform.

Map03: After I spawned, I felt as if I had just seen some of these rooms before in the previous maps. Wide open rooms with hallways seem to make you feel as if you're running in circles with no direction. The most interesting part of the map was the northern half.

Map04: The fog effect is nice and offers a breath of fresh air in the texture/detail department. The whole western half with the instant death water needs to be axed. That building is pointless and the map is already large enough. All the hallways just blend in together.

Map05: This feels like a mishmash of all the previous maps. The dreary Quake1 look is actually giving me a headache as I type this.

Map06: The only good thing about this map is that it has a different sky. The rooms are too large and wide open and the hallways are just too damn long. This could pass as a single player map.

Map07&08: These maps offer nothing different than what has already been seen.

Map09: Smallest map and probably one of the better ones due to the fact it isn't plagued by giant rooms/hallways and it actually has different textures.


Honestly, this pack just looks like a tech demo for Dynamic lighting, fog and Sloped/3D floors. There are some good ideas here, but seeing the same textures and architecture repeatedly is just tiring. There is nothing wrong with sticking to a formula, but this isn't a formula for success with regards to deathmatch. I can't see myself having fun on these maps and I don't see any real reason why someone would download a 140 MB map pack that suffers from RQRO.

Repetitive Quake Rip Off

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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#18 by Tiger » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:22 am

Catastrophe wrote:Now some of you might be wondering from the railgun screenshot about why my sbar looks odd, it's because it is downright broken. And yes, I tried setting hud_scale true/false. Playing on fullscreen hud gives you this (also bad because the number overlaps the weapon).


I re-examined this; this might be a Zandronum issue as it is not present in GZDoom 2.1.1. Since I use the GZDoom HUD on fullscreen, I never noticed this on Zandronum during tests.

As I explained in the Readme, Zandronum 3.0 is 'tested', and that is as far as I can go with it until its matched with (G)ZDoom.
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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#19 by Tiger » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:08 pm

Thank you everyone with testing this beta build and providing as much feedback as possible. The final build will be released within a month or two.
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[FINAL] Re: [DM] Morgenstern NOW WITH A FRICKIN' BETA! {WIP}

Post#20 by Tiger » Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:34 pm

I am pleased to announce that the B11-ND is now a requirement! Now we can have a fully immersive deathmatch environment that everyone can enjoy!


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