Zandronum

Hey everyone, I've been working on some more 2-4 player DM maps and could use a little bit of feedback.

UPDATE: http://www.mediafire.com/download/pnbdo ... shoes8.wad (8 maps)

The maps are 100% vanilla compatible. I know I know, I'm using stock textures but I like them. I'm more looking more for gameplay feedback than anything else, I don't want to release any more unbalanced WADs.

Currently they are laid out for OS flags (item respawn and jumping OFF). If you play with Item Respawn ON, the balance will be thrown off completely.

Screenshots:






Please let me know what you think, any critiques are happily welcomed.

These are nice but I think plasma ruins some maps.

After playtesting I tend to agree. Plasma placement will definitely be reconsidered, I've also noticed a few snags which need to be cut. Thanks for commenting!

I wouldn't mind taking at peak at these. I am going to be rather busy for the next several days, but if I have some spare time or I magically finish my objectives really early (doubtful), I'll take a gander at these on GZDoom. If incase I forget, just remind me on IRC when I am active.

Thanks Decay I'll take it from here:

I'll do a map by map review and I'll take *all* doom 2 deathmatch rules into effect while doing so as it is apparent to me this is the feel the wad is going for. Occasionally I'll take other multiplayer port rules into effect if and when needed if I locate anything rather breaking, because people could play this under any set of rules and should be judged for accordingly.

Map01 -- super simple roundabout of a map. Basically a fight to control the grass area seeing as most spawns are located here or a run to see who can grab the bfg and plasma gun (strangely located right next to eachother giving for a nice 400 cells if ammo is expended well) with a lovely berserk pack and backpack sitting next to eachother just in case if the player grabbing the bfg needs more health with which to deliver unto his opponent swift and untimely spamming. I was enjoying the theme after running around a couple times and the whole box style rooms really start to wear after a while, just seems sort of bland. Can see some rather ssl2 inspired mechanics here.

Map02 -- can't really make vertical small maps anymore without being obviously tied down to a judas ripoff. So map02, here we are in judas except in this case we no longer have a bfg and instead replace it with a soulsphere... Not going to lie, but this is not going well so far since even though this is a small map, it is a small map. The fact that the soulsphere can be grabbed in the same path as a green armor really makes that particular method overpowered as spawns in this map would be an incredibly easy thing to do coupled with the 30 second respawn timer on vanilla doom you could almost get a perfect game if you're lucky enough or got the steady aim needed. All in all it's *ok* but the soulsphere and green armor should be placed better or have the sphere taken out as powerups like that have no place in a small map.

Map03 -- no beating around the bush anymore. This is dwango right here, and I almost consider it taboo that I like how the map looks. However in spite of that this suffers a lot from map01's flaws with the bfg in a very opportune spot with a medikit on the lift up with a blue armor waiting for you as well as a berserk pack located on the map to recharge the health. Too easy to hold that lift off with a few well placed rockets and that shotgun spawn will not be enough to counter it.

Map04 -- this sort of makes me nostalgic back when I first started mapping and I thought the SHAWN2 texture was the coolest texture ever, gotta slap that shit all over my maps. There is ways to make said texture work, but in this map it does not work as it's the only decoration present all over the place. Again you have the bfg and plasma gun situated right next to eachother and to add more salt to the wound the soulsphere is located just above with yet another green armor on the way to it. When I timed this right I got 3 bfg shots out before I grabbed the soulsphere, then I could waste the other 2, press a switch and lower a blue armor, grab that, plasma gun located a pubic hair away and I'm back up to speed with most likely 200 armor and maybe just 100 health if someone was lucky enough to get me close enough with an ssg shot. And there is a berserk pack.

Map05 -- wow I can hardly believe I can witness a lazarus style map... At least the basics of one that is. Yet again I found a soulsphere right next to a green armor, with the benefit of the doubt yeah I can believe that it would be hard to get the soulsphere and armor at the same time, but that can also happen at any time. With this in mind I'm sort of okay with this however as this map does offer lots of cover and places to juke so maybe it gets a pass this time. Only complaint I can really give is that the plasma gun really shouldn't have a place here with the RL already making a good enough job of sweeping up players in one shot.

Map06 -- well hello there doom1 e1m1. For once I actually found a real 4 player style map which I have neglected to bring up before until now. Most of the maps leading up to this point all just seem like quick maps made to entice dueling more than deathmatch style play, really really unfair dueling punishing unsuspecting players, but dueling nonetheless. The bfg in this map is placed in a really awkward location making it easy as hell to sit behind the door and simply camp it if the player is just that dumb enough or just play around that area until someone opens the door and you can just rush in and kill the guy who obviously has to gun it for the door while escaping being shot at in order to grab it. Power ups in this map don't bother me much this time around as they are evenly spaced from eachother and do require a bit of navigation to get, but can easily get stolen by more alert players or just lucky players standing around the lift/door that needs to be opened to snag said power ups. In multiplayer ports it is possible to jump and grab the sphere.

Map07 -- every dm wad needs one!!!!! a circle map!! I'm not going to bother with the details on how I feel about this map as I've already dedicated a single map in my own wad showing my distaste towards circle dm maps. Kudos however for not making this yet another ridiculous dead simple rip off

Map08 -- a deathmatch circle map

Map09 -- this would be a duel map again, suffering from the reoccurring trope of soulsphere and green armor located right next to eachother yet again. With these small maps it is imperative to make it difficult to grab power ups or things that would give an otherwise significant advantage over other players especially when they can respawn after 30 seconds. I actually enjoyed the layout for the most part, but it's simply too tight in most areas making the trek indoors seem like a bad thing to do other than to pick up the ssg.

Map10 -- goth style, not looking good so far. Besides being true to what it is based off of. I can't really sit here and say I enjoy this style. This map is bringing up a trope I have not discussed yet and that is random switches, yes, random switches. Some switches are placed next to things that one would believe it would activate, but in actuality they are for objects located across the map requiring players to learn these maps before hand or otherwise be dealt a seriously bad hand. Not exactly a good idea for fun if you just want a pick up and play wad.

And that brings us to the end of our little old school wad. While I won't hark on the wad for not using any custom textures outside the doom2 stock and a few palette swaps, it's just an average wad. It's not incredibly awful and at the same time I don't see myself revisiting anything in this wad a second time, even after just running through in single player I regret to say that I don't think I'd ever casually join a dm server with this running. Most of the maps are packed with power ups in tight areas and the lot of it just seems like an absolute mess with more than 2 players. In reality not very many play 'classic vanilla doom' anymore as it is getting a bit out dated so really you need to accommodate for players who wish to play this outside of that format so it sees a bit more use than just something to look at. It's not up my alley and it is surely not something I would download dos box and gather a few friends to play.

Looking good!
Shane, could you comment that in a spoiler button?

Taking Shane's feedback into account, I'm going to make sure the powerups are fewer and further between. Personally I'm content with the visuals of the maps, oh and both of those circle maps are just going to be cut completely because they're pointless filler and I have no idea why I included them.

If people aren't able to figure out what switches do, they need to learn to pay attention, but otherwise I agree with most of your gameplay oriented criticisms. Thanks man!

EDIT: Also the font isn't large enough, I cant see it, please enlarge

in compliance with samuzero15tlh I have made my review much more simpler to future readers

Also I really need to make it clear that these are designed for OS flags (item respawn off) rather than being all ambiguous. I've already cut a bunch of soulspheres and shit but I frankly think these maps will completely unfair with items respawn on.

Little bit of an update: http://www.mediafire.com/download/pnbdo ... shoes8.wad

Cut the stupid ass circle maps and removed a fair chunk of powerups. Thinking about removing the plasma in map01 and maybe map07 entirely. Map06 (the e1m2 map) has a few stashes that I think are still too generous.

Going to be changing/adding more soon, I think with some slight refinements this could be far better. Also I have no idea why you guys hate shawn2, best texture ever

Oh can i give me some link?? or where did you get that link?

Alecto2704 wrote: Oh can i give me some link?? or where did you get that link?

Hey man, If you're asking for a download, it's here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/pnbdo ... shoes8.wad

The wad will be improved before release though, this is just a beta.

Gentlemen, please don't bring up that discussion of spoilers and whatnot. Discussions like this will be split. Please stay on topic.

Decay wrote: no mapinfo, doom2.wad textures only, iwad remixes

There's no mapinfo because it's a beta, obviously I'll name them and give them all skies. Also as we discussed on IRC I actually enjoy classic doom, like as in the IWAD maps, that's why I use stock textures and themes you find in the iwads. I'm not aiming for "uses the Doom engine but feels more like a Quake 3 Arena map with Hexen textures", I'm generally going for that iwad Doomy feel.

I know some people don't like it, some call it living in the past, some are bored of it, etc. but the fact is many of those old Dwango maps that use the stock textures are piles of crap in terms of gameplay and texture use, and there's not actually that much high-quality DM turf (that I'm aware of) which uses actual iwad themes. That's exactly the niche I want to fill, that is in terms of visuals. In terms of gameplay criticisms, you usually offer me a lot more to work with, and I'm glad Shane offered the critiques he did because I think it will definitely result in a more balanced set.

On one of those rare times our timezones actually allow us to give them a play, I'll throw them on a best-ever server. I removed a bunch of retarded plasma placement too, honestly I agree that I often cram way too many things into the map regarding items/weapons. I've halved basically everything at this point so I think the balance will already be heavily improved. Even though theyre meant for OS flags, I really really would prefer that they were also playable in NOS.

Yo people, I've fixed up two of the maps so far, but I think they'll be the only two and I'll make original turf for the rest. A bit of an overhaul.

It would be swell if you guys could take a peek and let me know what you think of the revamp: http://www.mediafire.com/download/0hivg ... orgera.zip

Hey there, there has indeed been some progress on this. I've got those 3 maps almost completely finished and am working on a 4th and 5th. I was gonna release it as a 3 pack, but fuck that, seems lazy, I'll have at least 6. Some playtesting of the retooled maps would be swell, ill send you a DL link here soon (once i upload it) or on IRC.

Doomkid if u want some good bob feedback 50,000 words like cgi, hl me on irc to play these with someone.

fuk yes thank u man

I'll HL you on IRC next time I see you