Prop Hunt - vb5 is out

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#181

Post by Hypnotoad » Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:13 am

I will look into making a cvar that disables the mod from being silent.

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#182

Post by Theshooter7 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:44 pm

Suicide Slim wrote:Stuff about no music
Honestly your complaint is pretty petty. It's up to the mod author's discretion of what they feel is best for their creation. Don't like it? Don't play the mod. It's like someone complaining that you can only play as Hunters or Props in this mod, and not Ghouls. After all, the music disabling doesn't actually affect any user settings (unlike some mods in the past might have, which the complaints were clearly understandable). To be fair though, implementing a cvar (defaulting to 'no music') that would take all of 5 minutes to create and thus give users an option is a reasonable action to take.
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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#183

Post by Slim » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:20 pm

Theshooter7 wrote:
Suicide Slim wrote:Stuff about no music
Honestly your complaint is pretty petty. It's up to the mod author's discretion of what they feel is best for their creation. Don't like it? Don't play the mod. It's like someone complaining that you can only play as Hunters or Props in this mod, and not Ghouls. After all, the music disabling doesn't actually affect any user settings (unlike some mods in the past might have, which the complaints were clearly understandable). To be fair though, implementing a cvar (defaulting to 'no music') that would take all of 5 minutes to create and thus give users an option is a reasonable action to take.
Thing is, you do not force a CLIENTSIDE OPTION off unless absolutely needed. This is an unneeded forcing off on an option, where as the silence provides little to no help anyway. Also if you read the above post, Hypnotoad is already seeing about a CVAR in the future for music. Creating a script that disables music on the first tic of gameplay was not exactly nessecary. It might help the hard of hearing but not too much. Since props taunt when hunters are 50 miles away anyway. :/
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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#184

Post by Combinebobnt » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:41 pm

So are you saying if I make a map and have its music be a silent midi I need to add a cvar to my map with acs now? Even though a cvar is probably the right option for this wad, there is no need for dumb logic as the reason. There is a difference between offering a choice on a gameplay aspect and going crazy/effectively barring an author from creating what he wants to, especially if it doesn't even use consolecommand() or toy around in your .ini or whatever.

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#185

Post by Frits » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:57 pm

Next update will feature clientside cvars to enable music and to disable taunts.
So cool your jets.

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#186

Post by Hypnotoad » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:17 pm

Suicide Slim wrote:
Theshooter7 wrote:
Suicide Slim wrote:Stuff about no music
Honestly your complaint is pretty petty. It's up to the mod author's discretion of what they feel is best for their creation. Don't like it? Don't play the mod. It's like someone complaining that you can only play as Hunters or Props in this mod, and not Ghouls. After all, the music disabling doesn't actually affect any user settings (unlike some mods in the past might have, which the complaints were clearly understandable). To be fair though, implementing a cvar (defaulting to 'no music') that would take all of 5 minutes to create and thus give users an option is a reasonable action to take.
Thing is, you do not force a CLIENTSIDE OPTION off unless absolutely needed. This is an unneeded forcing off on an option, where as the silence provides little to no help anyway. Also if you read the above post, Hypnotoad is already seeing about a CVAR in the future for music. Creating a script that disables music on the first tic of gameplay was not exactly nessecary. It might help the hard of hearing but not too much. Since props taunt when hunters are 50 miles away anyway. :/
I think I should clarify that no user/clientside settings are being changed when the mod calls the setmusic command.

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#187

Post by Theshooter7 » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:31 pm

Suicide Slim wrote:Thing is, you do not force a CLIENTSIDE OPTION off unless absolutely needed
Despite it already being stated, I will reaffirm that this is not the case. When you go back to your other mods or vanilla Doom 2 iwad, your music works immediately, no? It's not like the old hacks in WDI that forcibly disabled your crosshair settings, which I totally agreed with being a bad choice and am very thankful a compat flag was implemented for it (and on that note, you don't see any huge uproar over the mod's choice of disabling crosshair for instance, do you?).

I'm simply pointing out how you're going off the rails over a minute detail. The devs gave you solutions. And now they're implementing a cvar for your enjoyment. At the very least you can give them a thank you.

Which reminds me, good job on the PH_MAPPROPSONLY flag guys! No more Stalagmites on a Tech-base map, although it was hilarious
Last edited by Theshooter7 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#188

Post by Slim » Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:57 pm

Theshooter7 wrote:
Suicide Slim wrote:Thing is, you do not force a CLIENTSIDE OPTION off unless absolutely needed
Despite it already being stated, I will reaffirm that this is not the case. When you go back to your other mods or vanilla Doom 2 iwad, your music works immediately, no?
Let me reword then, you don't let a mod force changing from a map's default music to silence to account not having a cvar to toggle or advisory to snd_musicvolume 0.

EDIT: Thank you Hypno for considering a CVAR for music.
Last edited by Slim on Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"Your childish antics grow tiring. If you dare to fight me, then I accept your challenge: Anytime, anywhere." - Zero, Megaman X5
Spoiler: Quotes (Open)
5:54 PM - Slim: you're complaining about something so small that
5:54 PM - Lance: so? we do that all the time
5:55 PM - Lance: we're a bunch of losers complaining at a bar minus the bar
Spoiler: Galactus tried evading (Open)
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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#189

Post by SwordGrunt » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:20 am

Suicide Slim wrote:
Theshooter7 wrote:
Suicide Slim wrote:Thing is, you do not force a CLIENTSIDE OPTION off unless absolutely needed
Despite it already being stated, I will reaffirm that this is not the case. When you go back to your other mods or vanilla Doom 2 iwad, your music works immediately, no?
Let me reword then, you don't let a mod force changing from a map's default music to silence to account not having a cvar to toggle or advisory to snd_musicvolume 0.

EDIT: Thank you Hypno for considering a CVAR for music.
Yes they do, it's their mod. You don't tell them what to do either, you can suggest things without demanding them.

And if you think people only taunt when they are 100% safe you clearly haven't played this enough to say anything about how it works. If props didn't taunt they would win almost all games with decent team balance. But they do that, and get themselves killed a lot with it.

I personally don't mind the music being turned off and I think it was a good decision to implement it. I also think that typing bind k "changemus *" and pressing k when you want to listen to music is nothing incredibly difficult to do either...

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#190

Post by Kaminsky » Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:45 am

As a suggestion, music could be incorporated into this modification. For any users who prefer not to hear any music during the game, they may type in "STOPMUS" into the console. This should not take more than five seconds and isn't much of a hassle anyways.

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#191

Post by Catastrophe » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:39 am

Actually yeah, what's was the point of silencing music?

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#192

Post by Vivid » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:16 am

Catastrophe wrote: Actually yeah, what's was the point of silencing music?
Simple: you don't want to listen to it.

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#193

Post by Catastrophe » Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:02 am

Vivid wrote:
Catastrophe wrote: Actually yeah, what's was the point of silencing music?
Simple: you don't want to listen to it.
Don't tell me what to do

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#194

Post by TerminusEst13 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:51 am

Catastrophe wrote: Actually yeah, what's was the point of silencing music?
Hypnotoad wrote:There's a lot of musical taunts and they do tend to clash annoyingly with the music so it was turned off.
Kind of a silly reason, but eh.
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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#195

Post by Frits » Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:39 am

TerminusEst13 wrote:
Catastrophe wrote: Actually yeah, what's was the point of silencing music?
Hypnotoad wrote:There's a lot of musical taunts and they do tend to clash annoyingly with the music so it was turned off.
Kind of a silly reason, but eh.
Not really, during the first alpha testing session music wasn't silenced. Taunts (especially inf) clash pretty badly with the music. So i had to go and change the music volume all the time between ph and other mods.

Anyway the next version will have a cvar (for example: ph_enablemusic) that you need to set once and you'll always have music until you deactive it.
Last edited by Frits on Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#196

Post by Hypnotoad » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:30 pm

Frits wrote:
TerminusEst13 wrote:
Catastrophe wrote: Actually yeah, what's was the point of silencing music?
Hypnotoad wrote:There's a lot of musical taunts and they do tend to clash annoyingly with the music so it was turned off.
Kind of a silly reason, but eh.
Not really, during the first alpha testing session music wasn't silenced. Taunts (especially inf) clash pretty badly with the music. So i had to go and change the music volume all the time between ph and other mods.

Anyway the next version will have a cvar (for example: ph_enablemusic) that you need to set once and you'll always have music until you deactive it.
On top of the horrible clashing present, during testing players would turn the music off so they could actually hear the props properly and more clearly to assist their hunting, and complained it was a bad design choice for them to constantly have to turn the music off every map to actually play the game effectively. We feel that music off actually changes a bit the atmosphere and gameplay of our mod, and thus it is our design choice to present the mod in this way. We want to offer an optimal experience to new players by default, new players who do not know how to create an alias to turn music off each map without affecting their default settings. It is ultimately up to our discretion how we present and design the gameplay of the mod, and as theshooter7 pointed out no client settings are being changed when we set the music. Nevertheless we have now created a cvar for slim to archive, the only player to have complained about this so far and likely to use this feature (not counting one person who has music off regardless and does not actually play the mod, and another who has actually never played the mod).

In summary: music on was annoying for props, where it would clash gratingly with the taunts, especially if props got an infinite taunt - we received complaints about this when music was on.
Music on was also annoying for hunters, who would always turn the music off because being able to exactly hear where every noise is coming from without interruptions is essential to their gameplay - we received complaints about this when music was on.
Finally, music off changes the atmosphere of the game, and is part of our design choice in the overall presentation of our mod, something which is up to our discretion, and something that does not override any user settings. Yet, for those that really want it, we have provided a CVAR to archive to override our choice and have music again, in the next release.

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#197

Post by Espio » Thu May 01, 2014 12:23 am

I'll be honest I complained a little about setting a map's default music to silence, but not enough to have a cvar built in to stop it entirely.

Isn't that what WAD editing is for? Can just delete the silence files and that's it really. Sure gotta do it for each release but at least it's a personal preference I can fix manually on my own.
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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#198

Post by -Jes- » Thu May 01, 2014 12:34 am

Seriously? This is what we're bitching about now?
The serverside disabling of music in a mod where the ability to hear your opponents is important??

BRB complaining about every other arbitrary decision in every other mod ever.
For example, the COMPLETE and NONCANON removal of random sound pitch from Doom in Samsara.
Last edited by -Jes- on Thu May 01, 2014 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#199

Post by Slim » Thu May 01, 2014 1:16 am

Hypnotoad wrote: On top of the horrible clashing present, during testing players would turn the music off so they could actually hear the props properly and more clearly to assist their hunting, and complained it was a bad design choice for them to constantly have to turn the music off every map to actually play the game effectively. We feel that music off actually changes a bit the atmosphere and gameplay of our mod, and thus it is our design choice to present the mod in this way. We want to offer an optimal experience to new players by default, new players who do not know how to create an alias to turn music off each map without affecting their default settings. It is ultimately up to our discretion how we present and design the gameplay of the mod, and as theshooter7 pointed out no client settings are being changed when we set the music. Nevertheless we have now created a cvar for slim to archive, the only player to have complained about this so far and likely to use this feature (not counting one person who has music off regardless and does not actually play the mod, and another who has actually never played the mod).

In summary: music on was annoying for props, where it would clash gratingly with the taunts, especially if props got an infinite taunt - we received complaints about this when music was on.
Music on was also annoying for hunters, who would always turn the music off because being able to exactly hear where every noise is coming from without interruptions is essential to their gameplay - we received complaints about this when music was on.
Finally, music off changes the atmosphere of the game, and is part of our design choice in the overall presentation of our mod, something which is up to our discretion, and something that does not override any user settings. Yet, for those that really want it, we have provided a CVAR to archive to override our choice and have music again, in the next release.
Now I seemed to have gotten on most people's nerves, for a seemingly useless banter over this. But creating a script that works on all maps and creating a null sound was more time consuming, rather then at least advising STOPMUS or such. I never said it really had to be done, just wondering why bother to make a script and silence just for that.
-Jes- wrote: Seriously? This is what we're bitching about now?
The serverside disabling of music in a mod where the ability to hear your opponents is important??

BRB complaining about every other arbitrary decision in every other mod ever.
For example, the COMPLETE and NONCANON removal of random sound pitch from Doom in Samsara.
To be completely honest, again I just seem to think it was a little unnessecary to script something when there were other solutions.
Last edited by Slim on Thu May 01, 2014 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"Your childish antics grow tiring. If you dare to fight me, then I accept your challenge: Anytime, anywhere." - Zero, Megaman X5
Spoiler: Quotes (Open)
5:54 PM - Slim: you're complaining about something so small that
5:54 PM - Lance: so? we do that all the time
5:55 PM - Lance: we're a bunch of losers complaining at a bar minus the bar
Spoiler: Galactus tried evading (Open)
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RE: Prop Hunt - vb4 is out, featuring PH_MAPPROPSONLY and more!!!

#200

Post by Cyber' » Thu May 01, 2014 1:59 am

People complaining about no music:
Spoiler: Half of you play with music off and / or Itunes on anyway.
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