ZDoom Wars 1: v3.1f & Map Pack 1.8c (updated 11/29/17)

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#101

Post by Ivan » Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:54 am

A little problem I noticed: You should not use RANDOMIZE AT ANY TIME on ANY actor that is NOT CLIENTSIDE. That shit fucks up things! It's always fucked in many projectiles or actors, so don't use it. (I know it from RoTT TC port to Zandronum, it's unstable here.) Same with A_BishopMissileWeave, although it's not too bad; it was combined with RANDOMIZED and it can turn horrible. This makes the missiles "warp" randomly for some people. Please also take the time to remove this flag from your projectiles.
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#102

Post by ARGENTVM » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:57 am

I've been having an issue with ZDooM Wars where the game will occasionally crash after the client being open without an error report generating:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Basically, this has been happening with the client being open for long periods of time and usually when I am in-game. It seems to happen towards the climax of games and occurs upon an item pickup / summoning / et cetera without any sort of warning except for a three second pause upon the final action.

I can supply a demo upon request of a game where it happened (the demo does not captures that actual crash, but shows the final action that occurred when the game crashed), but it will be a large download.
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#103

Post by Mr. Repo » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:03 pm

Ah jeeze. I apologize for the delay here... life has been pretty busy lately (I technically have three jobs!! Woo!!) so this kind of took a back seat for a little while. Now without further adieu...

[spoiler='Ivan's Post @ 03-02-2015 12:12 AM']
Ivan wrote:
Mr. Repo wrote: Ah shoot you're right about that. It's not being used and it should be. I'll fix that guy too.

Still I'm appreciative of you finding all these bugs no one would have otherwise noticed. Definitely helps out a lot.
The only reason I am able to find is we going "oh that unit is useless" on TS, and I'm like "hmm wonder why" and trying to find some actual data to back it up. Another weak upgrade that comes to my mind is the Heretic's mummy upgrade. It's randomly spread and it does very little damage to be of any use IMO, for it's price that is.

You might also want to decrease the turret retrofit cost by 1 mana as it ends up costing the same, 8/1 + 3 => 11/1.

My other question is, why does the virus ground upgrade actually increase their units' cost? The upgrade adds some health, thats good, but the units are already very costly and mostly very situational. I don't get the balance reasons behind this. (Perhaps the treadmill gets stronger very much, I can relate to this, but the meshwalker is very crappy regardless at melee/mid range) A similar complaint I have is for the Leader. This time I've seen it being used. I don't know where you brought up that DPS fact the other day, but he sure as hell does not use that yellow stream attack as often. I can compare this unit to a unit of similar task: Death Wyvern. Cheaper and more consistent compared to the Leader. IMO, the whole red blaster attack it has is pathetic, I saw the damage value on that. I think the average value is less than 50, which is quite horrible and it retorts to this attack quite often for some reason. Now, I won't deny, that yellow projectile stream attack is actually VERY good, but it doesn't even use this attack very often to make a difference. I think Leader could use some treatment. Maybe it could use the red projectile attack if and only if it's target is a player, as well as making the projectile very fast?

An ages old complaint of mine, Heresiarch. Why is his useless flame head attack still useless? :P It just runs up to walls or gets stuck on the floor to make that awful bounce noise non-stop. I know his attacks are hard-coded, but surely something can be done about it.

And finally, I suggest you take a look at certain projectiles in Virus' units, mainly the explosive ones. They have these weird "2.1, 2.4" etc numbers that are the multipliers for damage values. Those are not only redundant, but look weird too. 2.1 only differs from 2.0 at certain values, which makes them bigger by only 1 (and 2 on some cases). IMO, they should be rounded or changed altogether. An 0.1 is not enough to give you any sort of advantage on the battlefield.

Also there seems to be a mistake on Suppression and Suppression2 types. The latter has damagefactors on normal LMS but the former has some only in TLMS modes. Some monsters like Chaingunguy and Mancubus use the former, but they have no effect on anything in LMS. Can you correct this?

Programmer also seems to be much rarely attack now compared to before, it seems to be mostly on just pure retreat instead of attacking even enemies surrounding it. Might change stances more often perhaps?
Disagree about the Mummy upgrade. For the cost, and in melee swarms it's I feel it's useful to some degree.

Good point about the Turrets. Will adjust the cost.

Virus monsters that are affected by the ground upgrade get health for level 2, and even more health plus '+MISSILEMORE' for level 3. Honestly I agree about the cost increase being weird compared to other upgrades and it should be edited to be consistent.

About the Leader... I don't use DPS to measure these things, but if anything I said it was more useful overall. I know for a fact the leader can hold its own against a Wyvern now plus the cost difference is negligible at this point. I believe the Wyvern is 70/55 and the Leader is 75/50. The chance for the stream or blaster is half and half at this point, but I did see the blaster shot and that is pitifully low and should be reworked. Doing this will require me to rebalance the Leader so consider that done.

Wellll for the Cubesiarch's flame head, it's screwed up because as you said the native 'A_SorcFX1Seek.' I have no idea how to tackle this, but if you have any ideas please let me know.

Actually the damage values for projectiles are all over the place because I never directly changed them from the old releases. I only adjusted the values of certain monsters and moved on where as the melee values were actually worked out from the ground up and completely rebalanced. This is just an example of this not being changed and is long overdue to be made a lot more cohesive.

I actually was informed of the strange suppression 2 and 3 damagetypes about a week AFTER 3.0 was released conveniently. This is a leftover from TZDWars and the old 302 release and will be fixed.

Thanks for the feedback on the Programmer. This is exactly what I wanted and I'll keep trying to figure out what to do from here.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler='Grymmoire's Post @ 03-02-2015 08:31 AM']
Grymmoire wrote: I've been looking at the DECORATE recently and I noticed that the ghost mummy is actually cheaper if you use the altfire from the normal mummy summoner. It checks for 4 mana but then only takes 3. If you use the regular ghost mummy summoner you spend the full 4 mana.

In addition, I dunno if this issue has been addressed or brought to attention yet, but dual pain elementals only summon 1 lost soul missile. They are frozen in place for the duration of time that they would fire a second lost soul, but they don't actually fire it. That makes dual pain elementals completely useless.

I second Ivan's suppression mention. I noticed it some time ago but I wasn't sure if there were actually two different forms of suppression damage going around, but as it turns out there is only one. Monsters that would take additional damage from suppression take it from "suppression2" though - of which I can't seem to find. Even if there are two forms going around, it doesn't make sense to advertise suppression monsters as doing extra damage that isn't consistent across all suppression dealing monsters.
Oof, thanks for pointing that out. I'd never notice the cost being off and it'll be fixed for the next release.

It looks like the Elementals had the tics doubled instead of the 'F' frame on the soul missiles. Again, thanks for pointing this out as well.

I can relate to not being 100% sure because when I combined and redid all the decorate, I didn't really check specifics for Suppression 1 & 2 and made the same assumption that it might be useful. As stated above, this will be fixed too.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler='fr blood's post @ 03-02-2015, 03:09 PM']
fr blood wrote: BTW I still don't understand the goal of the defense drone.
Me either. I think it's the only useless monster in the game and is long overdue to be redone. I do have plans for redoing this guy though and will take a crack at it soon.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler='Ivan's post @ 03-05-2015, 05:49 AM']
Ivan wrote: Another complaint: Why are treadmills resurrectable? AFAIK no other blue mana unit is resurrectable. This can give the upperhand quite easily. Oh and virus teleport projectile can hurt monsters, I've seen this abused to distract projectile suppression units that constantly attack to distract them or even hurt/kite melee units. This might need some attention.
The truth? Treadmills have always been able to be resurrected so I never touched it for that reason. Mana color aside, it's cost still isn't outrageously out of place compared to monsters that can be revived... even while they're level 3. Sniper Templars and Homing Serpents are within it's price range and yes, it can be argued that preretrofitted monsters are a different beast here, but they are also pretty lethal themselves. I just don't agree this needs to be changed is all.

The same goes for all monster removers and teleporters actually. They're all in desperate need to be damagetyped off. Thanks for the reminder.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler='Ru5tK1ng's post @ 03-05-2015, 08:38 AM']
Ru5tK1ng wrote: Another note after playing a few games, the Programmer seems to be really passive. I understand this was done to keep him from having a deathwish and charging into an army solo, however it seems he went from one extremity to another. The Programmer now retreats faster than a Frenchman when confronted by even single units. I would suggest either making it so he attacks while retreating or making him slightly more aggressive. Additionally, his lightning attack is a bit weak compared to other Strife Heroes and could use a little buff. The only other option would be to make him a normal unit and adjust mana costs appropriately if his current behavior is to remain the same.
I like the retreat analogy. As I said in a post above, yeah I'm definitely going to consider all this and definitely appreciate the feedback here because that is exactly what I wanted. This will come in handy for sure.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler='Ivan's post @ 03-05-2015, 09:00 AM']
Ivan wrote: Also why does the super cyclops not hit ghosts from far? This isn't mentioned on tooltips.
The Super Cyclops has always had +THRUGHOST -THRUGHOST on the projectile every 8 tics so I wouldn't say it doesn't hit ghosts from afar. This is noted on the fullscreen hud cost, but not on the HUD messages so I'll definitely fix it. Thanks for pointing it out.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler='Ivan's post @ 03-07-2015, 03:54 PM']
Ivan wrote: A little problem I noticed: You should not use RANDOMIZE AT ANY TIME on ANY actor that is NOT CLIENTSIDE. That shit fucks up things! It's always fucked in many projectiles or actors, so don't use it. (I know it from RoTT TC port to Zandronum, it's unstable here.) Same with A_BishopMissileWeave, although it's not too bad; it was combined with RANDOMIZED and it can turn horrible. This makes the missiles "warp" randomly for some people. Please also take the time to remove this flag from your projectiles.
Has this been confirmed on the tracker? I only ask because I'm pretty sure the Doom projectiles by default have +RANDOMIZED so I'm admittedly kinda skeptical on this. If you can show me confirmation then I'll definitely take the time to remove the flag from the projectiles.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler='ARGENTVM's post @ 03-11-2015, 11:57 AM']
ARGENTVM wrote: I've been having an issue with ZDooM Wars where the game will occasionally crash after the client being open without an error report generating:

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

Basically, this has been happening with the client being open for long periods of time and usually when I am in-game. It seems to happen towards the climax of games and occurs upon an item pickup / summoning / et cetera without any sort of warning except for a three second pause upon the final action.

I can supply a demo upon request of a game where it happened (the demo does not captures that actual crash, but shows the final action that occurred when the game crashed), but it will be a large download.
I'm actually interested in this. This used to sometimes happen to me randomly a long time ago, but it's been eons since I've experienced it. Please upload the demo because I'm curious to see if the mods causing it and if it would be possible to fix on my end.
[/spoiler]

Oh and expect there to be a huge announcement regarding 3.1 next week. That's all for now folks!
Last edited by Mr. Repo on Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#104

Post by Ivan » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:43 pm

The RANDOMIZE thing is apparently fixed sometime ago so I guess it's not necessary to get rid of them.

For the Heresiarch, you can go for two things: Either code your own flame head actors (that behave similar to some extent) or just increase the damage of them, by a lot. (Not against players though) The thing is, they either just go all the way up to the ceiling or stay stuck on the floor, that is reason enough to do something, anything, about it. Sometimes staying completely true to the original is bad, and in this case it's similar. To be honest, I'd suggest them doing explosive damage instead of a huge direct hit damage projectile. That'd give it some more use. (Maybe even giving them +FORCERADIUSDMG? That'd make him useful against bosses and some other units too, to some extent. And this would help make them different compared to the purple projectile attack which doesn't have that flag.)
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#105

Post by Combinebobnt » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:21 pm

More bugs for the bug farm:
Spoiler: 6 legged bug (Open)
Image
The revenant costs 24/6, but the hud part down there wrongly says 26/8
Last edited by Combinebobnt on Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#106

Post by Arctangent » Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:35 pm

Ivan wrote:Either code your own flame head actors (that behave similar to some extent)
These two seem to be mutually exclusive, even in ZDoom. The homing function that the heads use only affect their 2D properties, while the standard homing function will always affect all three dimensions. So either they have to not home at all, which would be a pretty huge change, or keep using the buggy behavior.

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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#107

Post by Mr. Repo » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:07 am

^ Pretty much exactly what I meant by if you had any ideas how to tackle it because replicating the attack would be a nightmare. I can't think of any conceivable way of recreating that thing at all. As far as the radius damage goes, the projectile already does explosive damage in addition to projectile based damage. Unfortunately this doesn't exactly fix the buggy behavior sadly.

Speaking of bugs, noted the incorrect cost for Revenants. Thanks for letting me know! I think overall I need to double check all the mana values for the summoner, messages, and hud values for discrepancies. These still pop up every so often and it's kinda pathetic on my end at this point.
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#108

Post by Ivan » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:20 am

Then why not make the heads just home in with a very slow turn speed? I mean, that's essentially what it is. If you actually want to recreate the balls, find the respective action functions it calls here: Source Have fun replicating this.
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#109

Post by Arctangent » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:33 pm

Ivan wrote: Then why not make the heads just home in with a very slow turn speed? I mean, that's essentially what it is. If you actually want to recreate the balls, find the respective action functions it calls here: Source Have fun replicating this.
... Because A_SeekerMissile also alters the virtual pitch, which means the heads will ignore gravity and just act like Revenant missiles.

There are no alternatives that only affect 2D movement, they all affect 3D movement.

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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#110

Post by Ivan » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:14 pm

I know, that's why I suggested it. There's no real easy way to save their functionality so why not change it altogether?
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#111

Post by De-M-oN » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:23 pm

In addition, I dunno if this issue has been addressed or brought to attention yet, but dual pain elementals only summon 1 lost soul missile. They are frozen in place for the duration of time that they would fire a second lost soul, but they don't actually fire it. That makes dual pain elementals completely useless.
Maybe this explains I found them always spawning not much souls xD

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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#112

Post by Mr. Repo » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:35 am

Okay so here's the gameplan from here on out.

I'm going to release a bugfix/minor nuisance release within the week to address the stuff talked about primarily in this topic. After this I'll likely maintain the project's fire with said revisions as necessary. With that being said...

The thought process behind this revision system is because 3.2 is going to be the final release of the mod(see how everything comes full circle?). As for 3.1? Think of it as a semi closed beta that will have periodic testing done whenever I can get a nice group of people together. Everything I've planned over these past few years is going to be attempted and likely added if possible into these next releases. Some of these said plans include several new features, including new game modes, and lots of other pretty surprises along the way among whatever else can be pulled off. No idea how long this will take, but I'll update and keep an eye on this topic as things develop. I've also began recruiting and have a few guys to help out along the way, some of which are far more skilled than I am to pull this off. Should be rather interesting. I'm also aware that public tests are a lot more legitimate than private so I'm putting money on 3.2 being revised a few times after it's out.

I'd also like to add that maps are still being accepted for the project so if you folks have any you'd like me to check out please feel free to link 'em here, or contact me via PM, irc or what have you. If anything it would be great to replace a few of the maps that aren't so great that are in the pack currently. Same goes for ideas, suggestions, and comments about how much you hate me too. I'm all ears.
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0h

#113

Post by fr blood » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:35 pm

There is a problem with the cvar "ZDW_MonsterTeleporter", when I set it to 1 somehow it comeback to 0 after a game.

I don't know how, maybe with a vote without intermission.
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0i

#114

Post by Mr. Repo » Tue May 19, 2015 1:51 am

^ Can't reproduce this.
Spoiler: Data V3.0i Changelog (Open)
General:

-Created a very basic CVar query list to see which CVars are currently altered in game in real time. Type 'CvarQuery' in console to toggle on and off. CVars only will be listed if they're altered from their default values and this list will automatically fade after 5 seconds

Balance:

Hexen:

-Ettin(Enchanted): I suppose this is balance related. I removed A_RadiusThrust from the Enchanted Ettin magic projectile. This will probably lower the damage some, but it also means Flembranes don't lose most of their health in two hits

Strife:

-Programmer: Fiddled with the Close Too Close values and states. Watch as I accidentally make this guy way too powerful for its own good, or even more worthless

-Entity: Reverted the Entity's changes from the prior version with +FRIGHTENED and what not

Virus:

Turret(Spreadshot): Raised the cost by two on all Spreadshot Turrets so now the retrofit cost makes sense

Bugs:

-If 'ZDW_Herolimit' was turned off, Silver, and Yellow LMS Leaders; along with Silver TLMS Leaders would not have a cooldown and always reimburse

Doom

-Revenant: Revenant's cost message on the fullscreen hud said 26/8, not 24/6

-Pain Elemental(Dual): Dual Pain Elemental's on LMS would shoot 1 soul only and wait two seconds afterwards.

Heretic

-Mummy: Altfire ghost Mummies only cost 3 mana

-Undead Knight(s): The Red Axe projectile from both varieties of Undead Knights were able to pass through ghosts

Strife

-Acolyte: Burned Acolytes hit with the repair drone would die twice instead of fading away

Chex

-Super Cyclops Flemoid: Corrected full screen hud and cost message that stated Super Cyclops can hit ghosts. Should be partially hit ghosts

Virus

-Spore(Upgraded): Upgraded Spores did not fire the upgraded projectile
Download: http://zdwi.neszone.net/downloads/ZDoomWarsIv3.0i.pk3
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0i

#115

Post by Razgriz » Tue May 19, 2015 3:42 am

Woah you reverted the entity? Now it's gone back to being useless, now strife has nothing that can kill a cyberdemon, gg
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0i

#116

Post by fr blood » Sat May 30, 2015 3:43 pm

Mr. Repo wrote: -Entity: Reverted the Entity's changes from the prior version with +FRIGHTENED and what not
Why ?! Just Why ?! Now the Entity is useless as before, because he leave the battlefield, no one complained about the "normal entity", so why ?!
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0i

#117

Post by Ivan » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:05 am

The Entity change was a step towards the right direction IMO, it unleashed a good portion of it's potential as a damage dealer/front line. Now it'll be barely any useful. I see the random glitches with the Spectres are not mentioned here as well (them going randomly too passive, trying to move outside the map etc) so I think some little changes to those should happen.
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0i

#118

Post by Combinebobnt » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:19 am

The programmer stays in its frightened state for too long to be useful, although the rare occasion when it does attack, they beast and fire out like 5 lightning spots at once

Edit: He once got stuck in his attack state for some reason too, but not firing anything

The entities' shitty new behavior is probably because you set its run away range to 2500 map units. Thats usually like half the map (sometimes almost all of it), and either way, its too busy running away because of this insane range. Before it could be used as a sniper if you took care of it or even as a good melee unit (one of strife's decent answers to the cyberdemon), but now its reduced to a liability that can only be used on the huge maps or as a waste of mana.
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0i

#119

Post by Razgriz » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:38 am

Yea reverting the entity is probably the best thing you can do. And programmer is alright I guess, kind of like a cheaper entity that also runs like a frenchman.
<PUN1SH3R> Cube has a magnetic effect
<PUN1SH3R> all other clans are in orbit with us, they just dont know it
<PUN1SH3R> occasionally cube will pull a player into it's system
[Quote=DwangoUnited Website] Eyes has tainted the DWANGO name in World of Warcraft. Eyes owes several thousand gold to friends that offered to loan it to him. He's since cut us off completely, and is not planning on gaming or paying back what he owes leaving DWANGO United with the debt. You have hurt us in more ways than you can know, pal. I hope you're happy that we've bent over backwards for you. Thanks for paying us back with a spit in the face and a cold shoulder. By the way pal, your bfg skills suck ass.[/quote]
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RE: ZDoom Wars 1: v3.0i

#120

Post by fr blood » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:38 am

And btw, when a monster is frightened he is less agressive, that why entity can't have this flag for that cost.
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