Samsara - No longer under active development.

Maps, modifications, add-ons, projects, and other releases for Zandronum. Also includes announcers.
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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#21

Post by President People » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:47 pm

Wow. That was pretty cool, love the sounds for it. However, it fires rather strangely for me:
Spoiler: [color=#ff0000 (Open)
Don't look at this[/color] until you've seen the Spear yourself]Image

Something similar happens to me in Super Skulltag. SST's plasma projectiles have a similar semi-sphere effect, but that effect is halved when I fire them (and only when I fire them; I see other players' effects as normal). So I'll have to see someone else fire it in Multiplayer to be sure.
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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#22

Post by Ænima » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:53 pm

President People wrote: Wow. That was pretty cool, love the sounds for it. However, it fires rather strangely for me:
Spoiler: [color=#ff0000 (Open)
Don't look at this[/color] until you've seen the Spear yourself]Image

Something similar happens to me in Super Skulltag. SST's plasma projectiles have a similar semi-sphere effect, but that effect is halved when I fire them (and only when I fire them; I see other players' effects as normal). So I'll have to see someone else fire it in Multiplayer to be sure.
Whoa. Now I know what you were talking about. That's weird.
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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#23

Post by TerminusEst13 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:02 pm

Hm.

Out of curiosity, Aenima, is the angle for your projectiles also random(-180,180)? Maybe we need to up it to random(-360,360).

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#24

Post by Ænima » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:04 pm

TerminusEst13 wrote: Hm.

Out of curiosity, Aenima, is the angle for your projectiles also random(-180,180)? Maybe we need to up it to random(-360,360).
That shouldn't even be necessary. random(-180,180) is the same as random(-360,360) or random(0,360) anyways.

This problem only seems to happen to PP, and I'm not sure why. I myself have never observed it, even when F12'ing him online.
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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#25

Post by someplayer » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:21 pm

God this mod, I think I'm enjoying this a bit too much. Never felt more rewarding than killing heretic monsters with Doomguy's SSG or making hordes of doom monsters teleport away with Chexwarrior's 'rockets'. Not to mention my favorite weapon always being early in any level, that is of course the firemace from Corvus.

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#26

Post by Animal Mother » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:38 am

I only kept singleplayer in mind with my suggestions, if some of these suggestions will break multiplayer then I'll understand if you don't include them

-original starting melee weapons should not be removed, and now that the knife is a pick up, give Blazkowicz a new starting melee attack, perhaps a kick attack (he was shown kicking a Nazi in the cover art after all)
-in conjunction with the first suggestion, make the berserk for Doomguy act like how it was originally again (boosts fist attack instead of chainsaw)
-add an option to have another melee weapon key bound, the current melee weapon key is placed at slot 0 and it's kinda out of reach so I had to change it manually through the .ini file
-starting weapons should consume slot 1 ammo
-slot 2 ammo should give more slot 1 ammo for Blazkowicz instead of just 1:1
-the weapon pick up icons should disappear after picking them up, they should also be able to be picked up even if you already have the weapon to be given additional ammo, basically like original behavior
-the backpack should act as normal but additionally give the supershotgun and its equivalents for the other heroes so we can have fun in Doom 1
-I think it would be neat if you could replace the "kills" on the HUD and intermission screen with "returned" or something to that effect when playing as Chex Warrior

Also, the archvile is still able to revive enemies after they are returned by Chex Warrior. Maybe it'll be too much of a perk for Chex Warrior, but I'd rather that the archvile wouldn't be able to do so.

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#27

Post by TerminusEst13 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:26 am

God this mod, I think I'm enjoying this a bit too much. Never felt more rewarding than killing heretic monsters with Doomguy's SSG or making hordes of doom monsters teleport away with Chexwarrior's 'rockets'. Not to mention my favorite weapon always being early in any level, that is of course the firemace from Corvus.
Thank you very much. I'm glad you enjoy it.

-original starting melee weapons should not be removed, and now that the knife is a pick up, give Blazkowicz a new starting melee attack, perhaps a kick attack (he was shown kicking a Nazi in the cover art after all)
-in conjunction with the first suggestion, make the berserk for Doomguy act like how it was originally again (boosts fist attack instead of chainsaw)
-starting weapons should consume slot 1 ammo
Why shouldn't the melee weapons be removed? From my consideration, they're eclipsed in every single way even by the starting weapon and cause needless clutter in scrolling through. If you end up needing to use the Fist, then there's a bit of a problem, and infinite ammo starting weapon usually helps to alleviate it.
Not to mention, several potential future characters I've been considering (and B.J.) lack two melee weapons.
-slot 2 ammo should give more slot 1 ammo for Blazkowicz instead of just 1:1
I'm wary of giving any character special resource treatment, especially since Zandronum doesn't appear to support A_Log at the moment, but I'll consider it. How much extra ammo should he get?
-the weapon pick up icons should disappear after picking them up, they should also be able to be picked up even if you already have the weapon to be given additional ammo, basically like original behavior
This was in the original alpha testing build, and it turned out to be a disaster in multiplayer. People were scrambling to grab weapons in co-op, and in larger DMs only a few lucky people could use non-starting weapons. Sorry.
-the backpack should act as normal but additionally give the supershotgun and its equivalents for the other heroes so we can have fun in Doom 1
Eehn. Perhaps not the backpack, considering how frequently it's gotten before the SSG, but I'm currently trying to figure out Doom I support.
-I think it would be neat if you could replace the "kills" on the HUD and intermission screen with "returned" or something to that effect when playing as Chex Warrior
I don't think I can change the intermission screen text for simply one class without multiplayer issues, but later on I'm hoping to give everyone a unique HUD. If I do, Chex Warrior's will definitely say Returned or Zorched.
Also, the archvile is still able to revive enemies after they are returned by Chex Warrior. Maybe it'll be too much of a perk for Chex Warrior, but I'd rather that the archvile wouldn't be able to do so.
Too much of a perk indeed, I think, since it's effectively neutering what makes them so vicious in the first place. But I agree that the Archvile reviving returned/zorched enemies from an invisible corpse is very, very strange. Maybe summoning them back, a la Doom 3?

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#28

Post by Ænima » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:35 pm

Or just put "Stop" at the end of their zorched death state.

It's the same reason why Lost Souls and Pain Elementals can't be resurrected.
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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#29

Post by Animal Mother » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:47 pm

TerminusEst13 wrote:Why shouldn't the melee weapons be removed? From my consideration, they're eclipsed in every single way even by the starting weapon and cause needless clutter in scrolling through. If you end up needing to use the Fist, then there's a bit of a problem, and infinite ammo starting weapon usually helps to alleviate it.
As far as singleplayer goes at least, infinite ammo kinda gives the player the mindset to just hang back and plink away at enemies instead of having to think which weapon is best suited for the situation at hand to conserve ammo, and non-infinite ammo weapons become only used during desperate situations. If the player wanted to save ammo, he'd have to risk punching out imps and timing attacks instead of easily blasting away with the pistol. In multiplayer, there should never be shortage of ammo so I don't see why needing to use the Fist becomes the issue. I think the problem is that MAYBE some maps give berserk packs and use punchouts as a theme for the map but they don't give chainsaws making the lack of fists a problem.
Not to mention, several potential future characters I've been considering (and B.J.) lack two melee weapons.
I figured since you already made a new weapon, it wouldn't hurt to add a basic melee attack similar to all the other starting melee attacks. Like I said, a kick.
I'm wary of giving any character special resource treatment, especially since Zandronum doesn't appear to support A_Log at the moment, but I'll consider it. How much extra ammo should he get?
Eh, I'm not really sure. I think they definitely need to be increased but by how much depends if you're going to make the starting pistol use ammo or not. I've only tested playing as Blazkowicz on Congestion 1024 and I found myself having to use the pistol pretty much always, the only time I burned through ammo so far (still only at MAP09) was on Dead Small and burned through ammo I did. That level, much like Dead Simple, hinged on using the SSG so it had lots of shell box pickups which should have been more than enough to kill all the enemies with that weapon alone but since they only gave 20 bullets a piece it meant almost nothing for Blazkowicz, all you could kill with the total bullets you'd get were three or four mancubi, you end up having to use almost all your rockets and fuel for the rest and the arachnotrons.
This was in the original alpha testing build, and it turned out to be a disaster in multiplayer. People were scrambling to grab weapons in co-op, and in larger DMs only a few lucky people could use non-starting weapons. Sorry.
I thought there were server options for that? The system I was proposing is just the same as original Doom behavior and I played several multiplayer matches on Skulltag where the pickups behaved the same way as they do right now in your mod i.e. several people can pick up the same weapon pick up.
Eehn. Perhaps not the backpack, considering how frequently it's gotten before the SSG, but I'm currently trying to figure out Doom I support.
Maybe I just haven't played many megawads but I find that typically the SSG is given earliest on the second map. Like I said, I haven't played many megawads but the only time I recall a backpack being given in the first level is Plutonia, and even then that first level also had a SSG, though I admit the backpack is kind of an easy snag compared to the SSG.
Last edited by Animal Mother on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#30

Post by TerminusEst13 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:38 pm

I thought there were server options for that?
There are, but Samsara's weapons work in a different way. The tl;dr of the matter is that they're actually inventory drops, not weapon drops, because CustomInventory allows you to do checks on Pickup but Weapons can't. So, with inventory drops and checks, I can see what class the player is and give them their respective weapon.
In multiplayer, the flag doesn't affect CustomInventory drops at all--so even with the flag on, they'd still vanish on pickup.
As far as singleplayer goes at least, infinite ammo kinda gives the player the mindset to just hang back and plink away at enemies instead of having to think which weapon is best suited for the situation at hand to conserve ammo, and non-infinite ammo weapons become only used during desperate situations.
You are the very first person I've ever seen that does that, haha. I really want to avoid the "just make a new weapon for them!" slope--B.J.'s Spear of Destiny was made because there's a lot of levels that practically require a room-clearing ultimate weapon, and I'm hoping to make that the only brand-new weapon. Including new weapons just for the sake of filling a slot is going to very drastically change gameplay, I think far more than just tossing the fist.
I'll consider it, but to be honest it really depends on others' feedback and seeing how others play as well.

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#31

Post by Animal Mother » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:50 pm

TerminusEst13 wrote: There are, but Samsara's weapons work in a different way. The tl;dr of the matter is that they're actually inventory drops, not weapon drops, because CustomInventory allows you to do checks on Pickup but Weapons can't. So, with inventory drops and checks, I can see what class the player is and give them their respective weapon.
In multiplayer, the flag doesn't affect CustomInventory drops at all--so even with the flag on, they'd still vanish on pickup.
I wonder, would it be possible in the future for the developers to add flags for that? Or are there already flags for it but you opt not to have them be used with this mod?

I really want to avoid the "just make a new weapon for them!" slope--B.J.'s Spear of Destiny was made because there's a lot of levels that practically require a room-clearing ultimate weapon, and I'm hoping to make that the only brand-new weapon. Including new weapons just for the sake of filling a slot is going to very drastically change gameplay, I think far more than just tossing the fist.
I'll consider it, but to be honest it really depends on others' feedback and seeing how others play as well.
I don't see how including a regular melee attack that you already say is "eclipsed in every single way" can be drastically game changing. The main point is that since you made the knife a weapon pick up now, and I want the original melee attacks to be restored, we'll have to give Blazkowicz an equivalent.

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#32

Post by President People » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:51 pm

Animal Mother wrote:
I really want to avoid the "just make a new weapon for them!" slope--B.J.'s Spear of Destiny was made because there's a lot of levels that practically require a room-clearing ultimate weapon, and I'm hoping to make that the only brand-new weapon. Including new weapons just for the sake of filling a slot is going to very drastically change gameplay, I think far more than just tossing the fist.
I'll consider it, but to be honest it really depends on others' feedback and seeing how others play as well.
I don't see how including a regular melee attack that you already say is "eclipsed in every single way" can be drastically game changing. The main point is that since you made the knife a weapon pick up now, and I want the original melee attacks to be restored, we'll have to give Blazkowicz an equivalent.
He just said he'd consider it. You're asking Terminus to add things he said he doesn't want to (restore melee weapons, including a new one), all for the sake of another thing you want him to add (berserk packs for all classes), because of another thing you wanted him to change (finite ammo for pistol equivalents).

It's his mod; you're being a bit overbearing here. He already said he's trying to take other player's opinions into consideration as well, and personally I like the melee/starting weapon situation as it is.
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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#33

Post by Animal Mother » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:59 am

President People wrote: He just said he'd consider it. You're asking Terminus to add things he said he doesn't want to (restore melee weapons, including a new one), all for the sake of another thing you want him to add (berserk packs for all classes), because of another thing you wanted him to change (finite ammo for pistol equivalents).
You misunderstand the part about berserk packs. I explicitly and clearly stated that I was only referring to its effects for Doomguy. And that is not the reason why I want the original melee attacks to be restored, rather, it is something to be added on top of the restoration of starting melee attacks, the entire point is that it's supposed to be closer to the original gameplay. Since the other games of the other characters don't originally have berserk packs, it only makes sense for them to be given different effects that are present in those games like Terminus has already done so I agree with that design choice. Though you did get the point about how their restoration is supposed to be in conjunction with the finite ammo for pistols, because again, that is what is closer to the original gameplay.

I'm just stating my opinions just like you are, it just so happens that my opinions need to be elaborated further since they are critical in nature as opposed to yours which just happens to be on the opposite side, the side which expresses agreement with what's already there and needs nothing else to say but of course your opinions are just as important and valuable as mine are. He can put his foot down if he's really opposed, but since he's still supplying very concrete reasons why he thinks this or that shouldn't be done, I find that as room to explain my view and give back concrete reasons.

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#34

Post by XutaWoo » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:45 am

Animal Mother wrote:critical in nature as opposed to yours which just happens to be on the opposite side, the side which expresses agreement with what's already there
holy run on sentence batman

I don't think you've ever been in a real debate, here.[/size]
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Image

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.14. B.J.'s ultimate ain't shit anymore!

#35

Post by Animal Mother » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:08 pm

Oh yeah, I'm wondering, are there any soon-ish plans to include the guy from Hacx? Everybody seems to be forgetting him in both this thread and the thread at ZDoom even though it seems like he could be a top candidate since he's also a part of the Doom engine family and he's not so hard to balance compared to the Hexen and Strife characters. Maybe Xaser will let you use the enhanced weapon sprites his team has made so far for Hacx 2.0.

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.15

#36

Post by TerminusEst13 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:59 pm

v0.15 is out. Now that the biggest bugs and idiosyncrasies have been squashed, now I can focus on hero development. I think I can safely say that the next release (Not the next update! The next release! There's a difference!) will include a new hero.
are there any soon-ish plans to include the guy from Hacx? [...] Maybe Xaser will let you use the enhanced weapon sprites his team has made so far for Hacx 2.0.
I sent a request to Xaser a while back asking about whether he'd be okay with me including Danny, and/or if it'd be all right if I used some resources from 2.0. Alternatively, if I should make my own version that are similar in behavior to 2.0.
He didn't reply, which I'm assuming is a "No", and I'm happy to respect that.
Last edited by TerminusEst13 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.15

#37

Post by Animal Mother » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:39 pm

Some minor cosmetic quips
-hellstaff's and phoenix rod's projectiles don't leave blast marks on walls
-tomed ethereal crossbow's projectiles have a different looking trail than the original, they slightly trickle down in the original but they don't here

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.15

#38

Post by Zupoman » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:51 pm

You should notice that Blazkowicz didn't had any armor in Wolfenstein 3d. But here he can have it freely.

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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.15

#39

Post by TerminusEst13 » Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:11 pm

-hellstaff's and phoenix rod's projectiles don't leave blast marks on walls
Noted and will fix, thank you.
-tomed ethereal crossbow's projectiles have a different looking trail than the original, they slightly trickle down in the original but they don't here
Later on, when heroes are in and things are less buggy, I'm hoping to do graphical enhancements to prettify everything that don't affect gameplay in the vein of Perkristian's Smooth Weapons thinger. I thought the projectiles looked nicer not trailing down, but I can restore their gravity if it doesn't look good.
You should notice that Blazkowicz didn't had any armor in Wolfenstein 3d. But here he can have it freely.
I did notice, aye. Not letting him pick up any armor would be pretty brutal, so I chalked that up to Wolfenstein 3D simply not having any armor rather than an inability to use armor.



[spoiler]Image

Hm.[/spoiler]
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RE: Samsara (Concept build) - v0.15

#40

Post by Animal Mother » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:02 am

-mini and dual zorchers' shots don't produce light like the other hitscan zorcher weapons
-HUD message when picking up slot 2 ammo for Blazkowicz hasn't been changed to correspond to the ammo and amount he gets from them (or is it not possible to change it for a specific character?)

Also I wonder how you'll implement the ammo and weapon types for the Hexen characters? I was thinking maybe they could correspond to the various inventory items in the game, and the weapon pickups would be kind of like spellbooks or recipe books that allow you to use those items at the cost of the ammo. For example, the slot V weapon will be a recipe book for flechettes, and you can make and throw flechettes at the cost of 1 or 2 pieces of ammo 3, and then you can pickup a recipe book for porkalator and you can cast them at the cost of 5 ammo 3. But I guess you have a better idea of how it'll work.

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