Samsara - No longer under active development.

[BlueHattedEngie]

All right, so enough time has passed, I think.

The total amount of votes are 48 for the Redeemer, 10 for the Quadshot, and 4 for Other.
That is a massive landslide in favor of the Redeemer, and I can see why. It's pretty much the big bruiser of the Unreal Tournament franchise--I've told a lot of people about Prisoner 849 in Samsara, and practically the very first thing they asked was "Does this mean the Redeemer?". Not to mention, code was volunteered for the damn thing, which pretty much takes all the work out of making it. Hooray!
That being said, it is strictly an Unreal Tournament weapon--and those that have said that out have a point as well. While I'm not beyond reaching out to other games in order to fill a roster (see: Duke Nukem 3D's Explosive Shotgun, Ranger's Dissolution of Eternity/Scourge of Armagon weapons), Unreal Tournament is a markedly different beast from Unreal than Duke Nukem 64 is to Duke Nukem 3D and Dissolution of Eternity is to Quake.

It will require a little bit of extra work on my part, but I want to give people options so that they can play the way they want. So, what I'll be doing is setting up another (serverside) console variable--it'll just be a simple swap between the Redeemer and another Unreal weapon for the VII.
That way, players who want a pure Unreal experience won't have to bother with the Redeemer at all, and players who love the Redeemer and want to see it in will get it and get to use it. Everyone gets what they want.

Thank you all for your input and feedback. Would a mod mind closing/removing the poll, please?

Maybe a berserk for the Redeemer? And (staying true to UT) have only 2 ammo max for the Redeemer.

[HexaDoken]

Berserk does not fit for anything major due to the fact that it's not really often used in maps, and when it is used, it's usually not intended as a weapon but rather as a 100% health refill. And when it IS used as a weapon, that means there will be quite a bunch of close quarters encounter soon after.

Redeemer? Close quarters? Yeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

That being said, what the alternate ultimate is going to be?

[BlueHattedEngie]

Berserk does not fit for anything major due to the fact that it's not really often used in maps, and when it is used, it's usually not intended as a weapon but rather as a 100% health refill. And when it IS used as a weapon, that means there will be quite a bunch of close quarters encounter soon after.

Redeemer? Close quarters? Yeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

That being said, what the alternate ultimate is going to be?

For some characters in Samsara, Berserks are used as extra weapons, like Ranger picking up a Berserk would give a Laser Rifle.
I was thinking of a tactical use for 849's Redeemer/Berserk as a limited-use weapon that is discarded after 1-2 shots.
Not the best weapon in close quarters, I have to agree, but I think this makes the player think tactfully on when or where to use the bringer-of-doom weapon (along the lines of my limited-use idea).

[Ijon Tichy]

For some characters in Samsara, Berserks are used as extra weapons, like Ranger picking up a Berserk would give a Laser Rifle.

That doesn't mean that the unique pickups are just a "lol new weapon" thing. They're meant for items that are pretty cool, have some nifty use, but don't really change much in terms of how easy/hard a map pack is. The Laser Cannon is Ranger's only way to use cells pre-BFG9000, and so is more important than the other uniques in that regard, but it's still nowhere near essential. Ranger can easily play a game without burning a single cell.

The Redeemer is something else entirely. It makes slaughtermaps much, MUCH easier, and it can basically slaughter anything on a direct hit (but good luck doing that if your target is shooting at the missile). Its blast radius is going to have to be reduced a lot if it's going to be more useful in general situations, but even so, one shot can clear out an entire platoon of hell knights. That's far, far above unique power.

[Ænima]

Do what I did for the SST BFGball's radius damage: Make 2 seperate A_Explode's; the one with the bigger radius deals no self-damage, the smaller radius does.

That way, if you still shoot it point-blank, yeah you're gonna die. But if you're forced to use it in a tight-ish (or anything less than "wide open") area, you won't be punished too severely.

[Untitled]

"one shot can clear out an entire platoon of hell knights", hell that's better than most ultimates, if it fired conventionally. (40 cells per shot) Which is why it most likely isn't :V

[Ijon Tichy]

Do what I did for the SST BFGball's radius damage: Make 2 seperate A_Explode's; the one with the bigger radius deals no self-damage, the smaller radius does.

Except the Redeemer doesn't just use a giant A_Explode. The shockwave isn't just for effect!

It'd still murder you unless I made the self-damaging explosions do all of 4 damage. And then it becomes even easier to use. That's not a good thing here.

[Catastrophe]

If you do that then redeemer must be the ultimate by default.

[CloudFlash]

[Heresy]
Why not make Redeemer do a smaller but more powerful explosion? Like, say, power of bfg in the blast radius of rocket.
[/Heresy]

[Ijon Tichy]

[Heresy]
Why not make Redeemer do a smaller but more powerful explosion? Like, say, power of bfg in the blast radius of rocket.
[/Heresy]

that's worse on both radius and raw damage

[Untitled]

Redeemer does faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more damage than a bfg shot. hell, it does more than a LAZ shot!
AS MUCH as I hate to say it, we're probably gonna have to nerf the redeemer a bit.

[-Jes-]

I have to agree. The 'Deemer, in it's native UT99 form, just doesn't fit in. It's simply too rare and too powerful to fit in Samsara.

[BlueHattedEngie]

After thinking, I don't know how else the Redeemer could be implemented.
Would be a nightmare in multiplayer as well, everyone would go P849 to get the Reedeemer to pwn everyone.

[Cruduxy]

More like they'll go ranger or duke for frag harvest weapons...

[Catastrophe]

I'm ok with redeemer being nerfed, as long as it's still the redeemer and not the quad shot.

[Triple S]

The thing about the Redeemer is that you get VERY few shots with it, so while you can nuke a group of enemies once or twice, you can't go nuts with it like the BFG... especially since it will kill you if you're anywhere near whatever the missile hit.

Oh, and it can be shot down, preventing the insane explosion. These two factors actually end up making it suitable for competitive multiplayer for the most part. High risk (as you can kill yourself easily, you only have a shot or two per match, and the missile can easily be shot down and rendered harmless), high reward (very hard to survive the blast, even with it probably being nerfed in DM like other weapons).

...The only issue I see for DM is running into a crowd of people and shooting the floor. Though that could be fixed either by not crediting P849 for Redeemer kills if she's dead at the time (I think that's standard Doom behavior though... not sure, I don't play this online much these days), or having a multiplayer-specific function where the explosion fades away harmlessly if P849 dies during the explosion.

[BlueHattedEngie]

Oh, and it can be shot down, preventing the insane explosion.

Crap! I forgot about that. That in mind, the Redeemer could work without being unbalanced.

[Untitled]

The problem is, the redeemer will be the most awkwardly balanced-either people react correctly to it/ammo isn't available to it and it's completely useless and Underpowered, or people panic and react wrongly and it mass slaughters everyone.

Also, it'll be brutal in coop since monsters would be less likely to shoot the missile down.

Basically, either OP or UP, but never in the middle.

I personally feel this is bad design. See: Ranger, who's Quad Damage allows for 30 seconds of Overpowered every 90 seconds of Underpowered (Due to Thunderbolt being less than a powerful Slot VII), which, well...

Let's just say I don't like the Quad Damage as a Slot VII. I understand it had to be done, but I honestly feel as if it's just a bad idea.

[Cruduxy]

Someone can always backstab you.

[Untitled]

DM Balance is funny, but workable. It certainly affixes the trickster role, though.

Coop modes are a bit on the iffy side due to monsters not shooting the redeemer missile down in the same way players do.

EDIT: So what's the non-redeemer ultimate?