WhoDunIt - Combat Overhaul (r81 released)

[Gardevoir]

*facedesks*
minus
is
a key
on
keyboard
that
changes hud
you were
aware of that
right

Problem is pressing minus brings up a gaping hom, unless 2.0 fixed that.

Catastrophe, you never played WhoDunIt, did you? There never was a HOM in there, now stop arguing.

[Catastrophe]

Yeah I have lmao.

[Theshooter7]

It should be quite simple to add a dmflag to do something like this. If there is no such feature request ticket on the tracker yet, feel free to open one and we can discuss this in more detail.

Sounds good to me! Will do. :)

[EDIT] and it's up.

[Deadon]

Holy shit! that's what i was just thinking!
Honestly i think the wrench is the only weapon that needs some more power.
And NO FUCKING CHAINSAW LINK SHIT it kills it

[Conflagrated]

No wait, it seems to be more informative, but design itself is too talky for a hud, with this gradient too. Less saturated interface and two colours would be just nice. I mean neat paint splashes as hud theme in current version fits very well. I'm pretty sure it would be nice in the bottom center of the screen as well as in the corner.

PSS Yellow bar is a stun or stamina? Wonder what does blue one means

This isn't the final version, it's missing some features (like the inventory and numerical readouts) in addition to trying out some colors.
The yellow bar is the new stamina system, while the blue one is just your color indicator. :p

How about good ol' Caltrops for murd? Would be awesome for escaping large crowds and slowing down innocents.

Not a bad idea, but we're already adding a way to slow down single targets available to everyone. So we'll see.

Problem is pressing minus brings up a gaping hom, unless 2.0 fixed that.

You can actually made the statbar hud into a fullscreen hud with SBARINFO. That's been possible for a very long time.

On the hud, the colors also seem fairly ... egh-y. I'd recommend choosing a new palette for it, as those colors genuinely do not look attractive.

I agree. I'm not sure what I want to do with the border; I'll play around with it and see what looks nice.
How do you feel about the style, though? Too busy?

I fail to see how it's annoying to have to look at a bar besides not having an exact value. If those pointer things on the bar mean what I think they do, that shouldn't be a problem.

The pips on the hud are at 20HP intervals, and are important in telegraphing the new health regen mechanics.

[Conflagrated]

With the changes we've made to combat so far, things are feeling pretty good. The new kick mechanic is proving a great way to handle aggressive players, even denying the antagonist a few extra stabs.

Changelog so far:


Combat

• Melee weapons now deal damage in an arc, with the 'center' dealing full damage and the edge dealing 'glancing' damage.
  - Rebalanced melee damage in light of this.
• Players now have stamina, influencing several of their actions.
  - Players cannot sprint unless they have at least 20 stamina, breaking any slowdowns they have.
  - Being slowed while sprinting will instead reduce stamina.
  - Melee weapons cost stamina to swing, but can be swung for half damage if the player is exhausted.
  - If a player is under 20 stamina, they can have weapons kicked out of their hands.
• Players can now kick targets, pushing them back a great distance and slowing them at the cost of stamina.
• Players now have a segmented health bar and will regenerate health in 20 point sections.
  -The murderer is excluded from this behavior, and instead regenerates all of his health at a much slower rate.
• Dropping below 20 HP no longer slows the player; Instead, they now have slower stamina regen.
• EVERYONE now has 100 health. Including the murderer.
• DamageFactor has been removed from all innocents.
• The murderer's resistance to damage now scales with how many players are in the game. This means they'll take MORE damage as the game progresses.

Items

• Stims now heal 15 instantly, and 15 over 5 seconds. Regen is disabled during this time.
• Discokits are now harder to find.

General

• When the round ends, everyone's perspective is changed to that of the last player to die.
• The innocent marker for the murderer is now less obtrusive.
• Blood spatters have had their screen duration halved.
• Players no longer use Pain100-25, as it could be abused to 'murder check'.
• The knife now changes appearance and leaves a trail of blood when attacking players. (Both parties leave a trail)

[StrikerMan780]

Interesting. Looking forward to how this will turn out in the end. The melee originally did feel clunky, so this looks like it would remedy that. :)

[Catastrophe]

Lets see how this stamina thing plays out. I hope the players aren't fat.

[Untitled]

Melee weapons now deal damage in an arc, with the 'center' dealing full damage and the edge dealing 'glancing' damage.
- Rebalanced melee damage in light of this.

Nice.

Players now have stamina, influencing several of their actions.
- Players cannot sprint unless they have at least 20 stamina, breaking any slowdowns they have.
- Being slowed while sprinting will instead reduce stamina.
- Melee weapons cost stamina to swing, but can be swung for half damage if the player is exhausted.
- If a player is under 20 stamina, they can have weapons kicked out of their hands.

Seems good so far.

Players can now kick targets, pushing them back a great distance and slowing them at the cost of stamina.

I feel this will make it too hard for the murderer; but it depends on some numbers so we'll see.

Players now have a segmented health bar and will regenerate health in 20 point sections.
-The murderer is excluded from this behavior, and instead regenerates all of his health at a much slower rate.

Excuse me? What? Regenerating HP in 20 health increments? What's the point of this?
Also, the why would the murderer regenerate slower? Isn't that being somewhat hard on him?

Dropping below 20 HP no longer slows the player; Instead, they now have slower stamina regen.

YES. I /hate/ wads that make you run slower at low health.

EVERYONE now has 100 health. Including the murderer.

Do you want the game to be innocent-won 90% of the time? This doesn't really seem possible for the murderer if the murderer can be 1v1'd.

DamageFactor has been removed from all innocents.

I didn't even know there was any damagefactors in WDI, but alright.

The murderer's resistance to damage now scales with how many players are in the game. This means they'll take MORE damage as the game progresses.

Given how Zandronum lacks APROP_DamageFactor (recognizes but doesn't actually do anything), how do you intend to do this? I've tried using it. Zandronum recognizes it but it fails to actually do anything, so you're going to need to find an alternative method.

Items

• Stims now heal 15 instantly, and 15 over 5 seconds. Regen is disabled during this time.
• Discokits are now harder to find.

but...but...discokits were the best part of-*shot*

General

• When the round ends, everyone's perspective is changed to that of the last player to die.
• The innocent marker for the murderer is now less obtrusive.
• Blood spatters have had their screen duration halved.
• Players no longer use Pain100-25, as it could be abused to 'murder check'.
• The knife now changes appearance and leaves a trail of blood when attacking players. (Both parties leave a trail)

All of these seem pretty cool.

[Conflagrated]

Players now have a segmented health bar and will regenerate health in 20 point sections.
-The murderer is excluded from this behavior, and instead regenerates all of his health at a much slower rate.

Excuse me? What? Regenerating HP in 20 health increments? What's the point of this?
Also, the why would the murderer regenerate slower? Isn't that being somewhat hard on him?

We had to make major changes with how players heal themselves. Previously: It was a huge resource race involving stimpack spam.

You can still pop a stim in battle, but you'll only get enough to fill up a single segment, and if you manage to avoid getting hit: push you into the next segment for natural regen to take over.

The murderer has slower regen on account that killing someone restores all of his health, and doesn't have to manage HP like the innocents do.

EVERYONE now has 100 health. Including the murderer.

Do you want the game to be innocent-won 90% of the time? This doesn't really seem possible for the murderer if the murderer can be 1v1'd.

The murderer may have 100 HP now, but the more innocents that are present in the game: The less damage he'll take. Doing it this way makes it easier to control balance near the endgame, since just removing the murderer's health would've been really weird.

DamageFactor has been removed from all innocents.

I didn't even know there was any damagefactors in WDI, but alright.

Oh man you have no idea. DamageFactor was used to reduce the damage dealt to other innocent players to prevent accidental knockouts, as we needed weapons to deal enough damage to the murderer without gibbing others.

This is why we moved to the 100 point system with a flat resist for the murderer, as aforementioned.

The murderer's resistance to damage now scales with how many players are in the game. This means they'll take MORE damage as the game progresses.

Given how Zandronum lacks APROP_DamageFactor (recognizes but doesn't actually do anything), how do you intend to do this?

Many many DamageFactor powerups that last indefinitely. (Unless you keep a game going for a year)

[Sicamore]

Yaaa! This thread made my day :)

[Svperstar]

Any chance of getting random gun spawns soon? Every weapon on map has the chance to be a gun with a max of 3/4 guns total per map?

[Conflagrated]

Any chance of getting random gun spawns soon? Every weapon on map has the chance to be a gun with a max of 3/4 guns total per map?

Adding a smart-spawn system for items that'll resupply (or starve) the map of resources based on how the game is playing out.

This includes weapons.

[Fluttershy]

I really love the new look of the HUD in that video with the "fancy camera". It reminds me a lot of the one used in Dust: An Elysian Tail. The segmented health bars are a great touch. Now if only Doom was able to support animated bars, or at least simulate the animation. I'd love to see the health bar being animated as if it was blood itself.

I do like the changelog so far, and especially the part where the "Pain100 - Pain25" sounds were removed. That was a key factor the keen players abused to scope out the murderer with little effort in the games I've participated in. All it took was counting how many times they were hit before someone changed the sound of their pain voice. A very annoying] tactic, indeed.

Also, the stamina system will definitely get me back in on the game when I'm able to run it decently again. That's definitely a plus right there, as well as the "Player.RunHealth" being omitted. It was a pain in backside trying to get away from an innocent punching me or meleeing me to death with the weapons around the map, then I can no longer run and get away, then die... At least, most of the time, the one who killed me gets smashed by a shovel or catches some buckshot in their mouth.

[Deadon]

I was also thinking of giving the crossbow power, Make it hold 12 bolts, Give a better kick (More damage!), And most importantly make the bolts respawn faster!
Also i was thinking the murd should stop at 150 and start getting more damage on his knife, Making him a much more precise and skilled class (Plus the innocents have an easier time!) and maybe some better regeneration!
Although i'm really not sure that stamina will work for this (No offense but that's what i hated in all the Elder Scrolls but played them anyway)

---

Oh almost forgot, The M1 should just have a bullet just fling out, like its a jammed or bent bullet (Really hard to explain) instead of jamming, it would waste ammo faster when fired faster.

---

One more thing. There should be 3 pipes each with a probably preferring the 3-1 meaning 3rd is favorite and most likely
3.Vanilla Pipe. :(
2.Long pipe- 1.5 longer range, knocks away on Alt. Fire, 1.5 time to swing.
3. Dented Pipe-Basically you can pick up pipes to attach for longer range and a little more damage, you can pick up to 2 extras, the second quickly breaks because it takes the most force.

Also For wrench
3. Vanilla
2.Loose wrench- basically the wrench except the adjustable grip is loose so you have more range (And a partially ranged weapon when alt fired to swing it off!) at the expense of having to pick it up as soon as it hits someone
1.Handy wrench- adjustable range for power and push. alt-fire to switch between Loose(Perhaps like, well, loose), normal, and tight (top power for acting just like a slow pipe)

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When will it have a download?

[Zeberpal]

Well, I could not draw a proper hud I though of, but here something similiar.
Noise bar would be a stamina, and bottom bloody one is murd's. It's silly.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Conflagrated, I'd like to ask you to make stats music acs optional. It's just clock tower ending theme doesn't fit some of my maps futuristic atmosphere, and I've dreamed to change it for a while now.

P.S I suggest to make innocent mark just as a 2x2 dot. Murd will always know whre victim is, but meanwhile when he gets in a close combat and innocent happen to run away, it'll be an eyefuck to catch him, because a dot will float around the screen like a bitch since victim is nearby. The point is, murderer will only have an advantage of a mark only when innocent is far away.

P.S.S And to decrease Stats board time from 30 to 15 secs. I like CT music too, but it's too long :(

[CloudFlash]

P.S I suggest to make innocent mark just as a 2x2 dot. Murd will always know whre victim is, but meanwhile when he gets in a close combat and innocent happen to run away, it'll be an eyefuck to catch him, because a dot will float around the screen like a bitch since victim is nearby. The point is, murderer will only have an advantage of a mark only when innocent is far away.

Or maybe make that red dot flashing from time to time, like in those submarine radar thingies?

[Catastrophe]

Couldn't someone just sprite replace it?

[Deadon]

Here's my blimp:

I was thinking more like this though:


Well ill make 'em more HQ If you want or need it
(I'm either going for a heretic/hexen kind of look or a halo way point blimp). I'm just helping this along.
Besides blimps go over the player thus increasing their usefulness in combat. I could even make it green so that it shows color if you like. (You'll have to do the color coordination stuff, ill do the blimp)

---

Oh! How about this! Every time the innocent can be seen (360 angle around all innocents of "View") the murderer can see them!

[Conflagrated]

Conflagrated, I'd like to ask you to make stats music acs optional. It's just clock tower ending theme doesn't fit some of my maps futuristic atmosphere, and I've dreamed to change it for a while now.

I've actually wanted that myself, but it was never implemented. We'll take a look at it once we've gotten the core features in.

P.S.S And to decrease Stats board time from 30 to 15 secs. I like CT music too, but it's too long :(

The scoreboard code is pretty rigid, so rewriting it might be tough.

I was also thinking of giving the crossbow power, Make it hold 12 bolts, Give a better kick (More damage!), And most importantly make the bolts respawn faster!

Even if we kept the old health system that would be pretty overpowered!

Also i was thinking the murd should stop at 150 and start getting more damage on his knife, Making him a much more precise and skilled class (Plus the innocents have an easier time!) and maybe some better regeneration!

The Antagonist already takes a ton of skill in early-game. Late game becomes incredibly broken, however.
Also: The knife deals up to 40 damage, depending on how close you are. I don't think it needs to take any larger of a chunk from a player's 100 point pool. :p

Although i'm really not sure that stamina will work for this (No offense but that's what i hated in all the Elder Scrolls but played them anyway)

Stamina is fairly generous, save for breaking stuns. Removing any slowdown can get pretty expensive ESPECIALLY if someone has a poolcue.

When will it have a download?

When it's done.™