SamsaraHold Resurrection + Enhancer

[Untitled]

Make sure at any given point you have the latest version - though, in this case, the next version is the first beta rather than alpha.

To go down:
1. The normalized damage in many cases is a remnant of samsara - it was designed as a deathmatch mod (remember that I didn't create samsara, only modified it) so often many things are from there, such as damage factors for players - Chexter (0.8 damagefactor) and Duke (1.1 damagefactor) and parias (normal except 0.25 radius damage factor and damage factors against very specific monsters to help him not die in melee range) are the only exceptions (ranger takes half damage from his own explosions, otherwise normal). Just remnants I never bothered getting rid of.
2a. BJ - yeah, I might give a bit more ammo. Spear of destiny nerfed again for next version (gee, a pattern). Flamethrower I can't mess with because that would make it strictly better than the Plasma Rifle (same fire rate, 10-50 damage). Remember that the ammo counts have to account for the fact shotguns and chainguns are dropped by zombies - which would give them a ridiculous amount, particularly from shotgunners.
2b. Corvus - Hellstaff damage in samsarahold online is 2-50, so yeah, we're about even there.
2c. Doomguy - chaingun fires at 4 tics/shot, it can't possibly be 5 tics faster! Also, zombies, again, make shell ammo so plentiful it's ridiculous - and the SSG/ASG combo gives 20 shells already. Autoshotgun is already the highest DPS shotgun in the game aside from the dual WSTE-M5s (which are kind of offset by ridiculously fast shell usage)
2d. Duke - I actually used to be like you in that I thought the XSG should be Duke's "Super Shotgun". I gradually realized that the XSG is meant to be a rocket launcher; it clears crowds, does a lot of damage, and should be sparingly used. The reason for this is that Doomguy and Corvus must be the best shell-users of the heroes; that's what they've always done.
On another note, Buffed Devastator: Damage remains at (38), but explosion [format is (damage,radius)] was increased from (48,64) to (54,88), which gives it more crowd clearing power.
2e. Ranger - the 9/18 damage nails are deathmatch; they do 10/20 damage in coop modes (with lava nails doing more), such as samsarahold. Again, that's from samsara. Laser Cannon was buffed from your version; went from 9 damage per laser to 12 (24 for each shot).
2f. Marathon - the SPNKR was always like that - slow to raise and lower was it's main weakness. Marathon is very deliberately like the original game; as such, all of the same clunkiness problems sort of have to stay.

4a. Hectebus - I can't really buff this guy's health, mostly due to the fact that they already make the game long enough as is (since they usually appear before you get Slot VII), and 2500 on a non-boss monster is just...ugh. Not fun. That's over a dozen rockets (unless SPNKR), 13 SSG shots, 36 ASG shots, and a lot of time. 2500 is more health than some of the ACTUAL boss-flagged monsters.
4b. Cybruiser - they already have 2000 health!
4c. Bruiserdemons (not daemon) don't hurt themselves - they hurt other hell nobles, but that's just nature of their attacks.
4d. Zombie Tanks are both fast moving and hitscans, and tend to appear early, so yeah. Also, your suggestion seems to be identical to giving it a 20% increase of health.
4e. Given I did the whole "goes invincible on wave start" thing, I honestly don't think giving it more health is a good idea anymore - Especially since the first wave usually involves you shotgunning it. I'll see what to do, though - Overmind has been a complete nightmare to get right.

STR54 (Blue Disk secret map) is honestly both awesome and terrible. It's awesome because it totally works and totally feels the way I want it to (particularly at 4 players). It's terrible because >zandronum

STR26 (Tier 5 Mission 5) is probably my proudest creation, spawned from TONS of playtesting and rebalancing - that was done because the original T5M5 was...kind of lame, to be honest.

I've always harboured a secret wish to add custom stuff to samsarahold just out of creative impulse, but I have to say, I've learned a couple things:

1. Good Boss Design generally requires a lot of testing.
2. A LOT of testing.
3. It also requires a lot of thought into what map you're putting the boss into - Many maps don't support boss fights very well.
4. More testing!
Also, it's compounded by the fact that boss battles plain don't work in both Limit (Due to the fact you can just let them through) and Overmind ("KILL THE OVERMIND NOW!") game modes - and there are a lot of limit maps.

Though, in terms of maps that could use a good boss or two, care to list off maps?

EDIT: stole 200th reply

[bruiserdaemon]

Which file does edit the monsters spawned by the waves, could you list me the directory path plz?

About the maps which need a boss, well let's say all tier 6 maps are great candidates for a boss fight, since they are large and cool. Plus, you should make it that if the boss passes through, the game is lost.

PS: it is true that the zombies give you ammo, but after a while the weapons disappear! Keep that in mind. I played this online too, and since the waves are so vast and powerful you really should improve the lesser weapons a bit, maybe enlarge their ammo capacity too. If a man can carry 100 rockets on his back (!) i guess he can carry at least a thousand bullets and shells. Keep in mind that the splash dmg weapons have already an inherent advantage on crowd control, because they damage many monsters per hit! That's why non splash damage weapons feel like they are here just because they used to be there.

[Untitled]

Which file does edit the monsters spawned by the waves, could you list me the directory path plz?

It's in the samsara code file - not the core file (calling the code file is a remnant of early early dev samsara stronghold, before I started editing maps). Open it up, there should be a folder labeled "maps" - use any sort of WAD editor (I personally use Slade 3 for WADs) to open them up, and edit the ACS scripts, which contains all of the monsters/messages/powerups/weapons/ammo for each wave.

About the maps which need a boss, well let's say all tier 6 maps are great candidates for a boss fight, since they are large and cool. Plus, you should make it that if the boss passes through, the game is lost.

Not gonna lie, I really like Tier six's missions - Cyclone and Convulsion of Nature still amaze me in visual beauty.

It's also why I can't map for stronghold - my mapping skills are...well, if we call Stronghold the par, woefully and terribly sub-par.

PS: it is true that the zombies give you ammo, but after a while the weapons disappear! Keep that in mind. I played this online too, and since the waves are so vast and powerful you really should improve the lesser weapons a bit, maybe enlarge their ammo capacity too. If a man can carry 100 rockets on his back (!) i guess he can carry at least a thousand bullets and shells. Keep in mind that the splash dmg weapons have already an inherent advantage on crowd control, because they damage many monsters per hit! That's why non splash damage weapons feel like they are here just because they used to be there.

For me, stronghold was always about the progression - you start by using the bullet/shell weapons (since a rocket launcher isn't given), then you use rockets/cells (switching to shells/bullets essentially when you run out), then you use your Ultimate weapons (switching to rockets if you run out of cells) - it actually makes the balance easier, since having a weapon take over isn't necessarily a bad thing - the game is putting your through the weapon set manually.

Splash damage weapons having an inherent advantage in crowd control is also why the game tends to get harder when the weapons are given - most map designers were aware of this. This is because they are designed KNOWING that you have weapons that crowd control. As such, when you get these weapons, use them. You should not be going to use your shell weapons unless the majority of the crowd has been dispersed or unless you're out of rockets.

This is actually one of the reasons why fatso/hectebi/arachnotron/fusion spider, which are normally not that bad, can be threatening - they are large enough that you can't clear them out en masse without slot VII weapons.

And then there's the fact that bosses are completely immune to splash damage unless your Duke, Parias using the Hammer (not firestorm), or SO using SPNKR (not MA-75B grenades), or Ranger (but only 50% splash damage).

The zombie drops DO disappear, yes, but it takes a full two minutes to disappear, and until you get to the later half of the game, waves rarely actually last longer than two minutes - in fact, as I've learned, people tend to start falling asleep (not literally, but it gets very tedious) when waves take forever to spawn (for the record, before tier six, the longest a single wave has lasted is 6 minutes, last wave of T5M2, followed by 5 minutes at wave 7 of T3M3, which is being dramatically shortened for reasons of >8 players).

(Tier six gets a bye because aside from Cyclone none of the maps tend to get stuck - even the long waves tend to feel fluid in nature during the map. Being a high enough tier to throw the deadliest monsters at the players helps with that, I've found.)

Also, let's be honest here; aside from Tier 1 (where rockets/cells are almost never given), I can't think of any missions where running of shells is a problem (aside from T3M5 and T6M6, which are rocket missions so you shouldn't need to use shells).

[bruiserdaemon]

I tried to edit the monster via the script file, for example putting 30 demons instead of 10, then tested it but the demons are still 10. What am i doing wrong?

[Untitled]

I tried to edit the monster via the script file, for example putting 30 demons instead of 10, then tested it but the demons are still 10. What am i doing wrong?

Ah, right. This is going to be somewhat complicated, especially compared to editing decorate.

First thing, extract ALL of the maps to a separate folder - the pk3 won't let you compile the ACS in there.

Then, after that, find strnghld.acs in the acs_src folder in the samsarahold code file (THIS file, is in fact, why it's called samsarahold code - this is what makes the maps run), and throw it in the same folder as your maps.

Now, open your map in whatever wad editor you use.

After that, open up the scripts - much like you did.

Now, select the SCRIPTS and then COMPILE the ACS - if you're working with Slade 3 (like I do for WADs), then it's as simple as right-click, select "Compile ACS", and the scripts should compile.

IF they don't, then you have THESE series of steps:
1. http://www.zdoom.org/Download Get whatever the latest version of ACC is. After that, because you probably want to use the same compiling circumstances as I do, follow this:
2. ACC should come with four .acs files: zcommon.acs, zwvars.acs, zdefs.acs, and zspecial.acs. Don't touch the first three (ever), but replace EVERYTHING in your zspecial.acs with this:

Code: Select all

//**************************************************************************
//**
//** zspecials.acs
//**
//**************************************************************************

special
//	  1:Polyobj_StartLine
	  2:Polyobj_RotateLeft(3),
	  3:Polyobj_RotateRight(3),
	  4:Polyobj_Move(4),
//	  5:Polyobj_ExplicitLine
	  6:Polyobj_MoveTimes8(4),
	  7:Polyobj_DoorSwing(4),
	  8:Polyobj_DoorSlide(5),
	  9:Line_Horizon(0),
	 10:Door_Close(2),
	 11:Door_Open(2,3),
	 12:Door_Raise(3,4),
	 13:Door_LockedRaise(4,5),
	 14:Door_Animated(3),
	 15:Autosave(0),
//	 16:Transfer_WallLight
	 17:Thing_Raise(1),
	 18:StartConversation(1,2),
	 19:Thing_Stop(1),
	 20:Floor_LowerByValue(3),
	 21:Floor_LowerToLowest(2),
	 22:Floor_LowerToNearest(2),
	 23:Floor_RaiseByValue(3),
	 24:Floor_RaiseToHighest(2),
	 25:Floor_RaiseToNearest(2),
	 26:Stairs_BuildDown(5),
	 27:Stairs_BuildUp(5),
	 28:Floor_RaiseAndCrush(3,4),
	 29:Pillar_Build(3),
	 30:Pillar_Open(4),
	 31:Stairs_BuildDownSync(4),
	 32:Stairs_BuildUpSync(4),
	 33:ForceField(0),
	 34:ClearForceField(1),
	 35:Floor_RaiseByValueTimes8(3),
	 36:Floor_LowerByValueTimes8(3),
	 37:Floor_MoveToValue(3,4),
	 38:Ceiling_Waggle(5),
	 39:Teleport_ZombieChanger(2),
	 40:Ceiling_LowerByValue(3),
	 41:Ceiling_RaiseByValue(3),
	 42:Ceiling_CrushAndRaise(3,4),
	 43:Ceiling_LowerAndCrush(3,4),
	 44:Ceiling_CrushStop(1),
	 45:Ceiling_CrushRaiseAndStay(3,4),
	 46:Floor_CrushStop(1),
	 47:Ceiling_MoveToValue(3,4),
//	 48:Sector_Attach3dMidtex
	 49:GlassBreak(0,1),
//	 50:ExtraFloor_LightOnly
	 51:Sector_SetLink(4),
	 52:Scroll_Wall(5),
	 53:Line_SetTextureOffset(5),
	 54:Sector_ChangeFlags(3),
	 55:Line_SetBlocking(3),
	 56:Line_SetTextureScale(5),
//	 57: Sector_SetPortal
//	 58: Sector_CopyScroller
	 59:Polyobj_OR_MoveToSpot(3),
	 60:Plat_PerpetualRaise(3),
 	 61:Plat_Stop(1),
	 62:Plat_DownWaitUpStay(3),
	 63:Plat_DownByValue(4),
	 64:Plat_UpWaitDownStay(3),
	 65:Plat_UpByValue(4),
	 66:Floor_LowerInstant(3),
	 67:Floor_RaiseInstant(3),
	 68:Floor_MoveToValueTimes8(4),
	 69:Ceiling_MoveToValueTimes8(4),
	 70:Teleport(1,3),
	 71:Teleport_NoFog(1,3),
	 72:ThrustThing(2,4),
	 73:DamageThing(1,2),
	 74:Teleport_NewMap(2,3),
	 75:Teleport_EndGame(0),
	 76:TeleportOther(3),
	 77:TeleportGroup(5),
	 78:TeleportInSector(4,5),
	 79:Thing_SetConversation(2),
	 80:ACS_Execute(2,5),
	 81:ACS_Suspend(2),
	 82:ACS_Terminate(2),
	 83:ACS_LockedExecute(5),
	 84:ACS_ExecuteWithResult(1,5),
	 85:ACS_LockedExecuteDoor(5),
	 86:Polyobj_MoveToSpot(3),
	 87:Polyobj_Stop(1),
	 88:Polyobj_MoveTo(4),
	 89:Polyobj_OR_MoveTo(4),
	 90:Polyobj_OR_RotateLeft(3),
	 91:Polyobj_OR_RotateRight(3),
	 92:Polyobj_OR_Move(4),
	 93:Polyobj_OR_MoveTimes8(4),
	 94:Pillar_BuildAndCrush(4,5),
	 95:FloorAndCeiling_LowerByValue(3),
	 96:FloorAndCeiling_RaiseByValue(3),
	 97:Ceiling_LowerAndCrushDist(3,5),
	 98:Sector_SetTranslucent(3,4),

//	100:Scroll_Texture_Left
//	101:Scroll_Texture_Right
//	102:Scroll_Texture_Up
//	103:Scroll_Texture_Down

	109:Light_ForceLightning(1),
	110:Light_RaiseByValue(2),
	111:Light_LowerByValue(2),
	112:Light_ChangeToValue(2),
	113:Light_Fade(3),
	114:Light_Glow(4),
	115:Light_Flicker(3),
	116:Light_Strobe(5),
	117:Light_Stop(1),
//	118:Plane_Copy
	119:Thing_Damage(2,3),
	120:Radius_Quake(5),
//	121:Line_SetIdentification
	
	125:Thing_Move(2,3),
	
	127:Thing_SetSpecial(5),
	128:ThrustThingZ(4),
	129:UsePuzzleItem(0),	// only for setting it on a line. Cannot be called!
	130:Thing_Activate(1),
	131:Thing_Deactivate(1),
	132:Thing_Remove(1),
	133:Thing_Destroy(1,3),
	134:Thing_Projectile(5),
	135:Thing_Spawn(3,4),
	136:Thing_ProjectileGravity(5),
	137:Thing_SpawnNoFog(3,4),
	138:Floor_Waggle(5),
	139:Thing_SpawnFacing(2,4),
	140:Sector_ChangeSound(2),
	
	143:Player_RemoveItem(2),			// Skulltag Functions
	144:Player_GiveItem(2),				// Skulltag Functions
	145:Player_SetTeam(1),				// Skulltag Functions
	152:Team_Score(2),					// Skulltag Functions
	153:Team_GivePoints(3),				// Skulltag Functions
	154:Teleport_NoStop(2, 3),

	157:SetGlobalFogParameter(2),		// GZDoom only!
	158:FS_Execute(1,4),				// GZDoom only!
	159:Sector_SetPlaneReflection(3),	// GZDoom only!
//	160:Sector_Set3DFloor				// GZDoom/Vavoom
//	161:Sector_SetContents				// Vavoom
	
	168:Ceiling_CrushAndRaiseDist(3,5),
	169:Generic_Crusher2(5),
	170:Sector_SetCeilingScale2(3),
	171:Sector_SetFloorScale2(3),
	172:Plat_UpNearestWaitDownStay(3),
	173:NoiseAlert(2),
	174:SendToCommunicator(4),
	175:Thing_ProjectileIntercept(5),
	176:Thing_ChangeTID(2),
	177:Thing_Hate(2,3),
	178:Thing_ProjectileAimed(4,5),
	179:ChangeSkill(1),
	180:Thing_SetTranslation(2),
//	181:Plane_Align,
	182:Line_Mirror(0),
	183:Line_AlignCeiling(2),
	184:Line_AlignFloor(2),
	185:Sector_SetRotation(3),
	186:Sector_SetCeilingPanning(5),
	187:Sector_SetFloorPanning(5),
	188:Sector_SetCeilingScale(5),
	189:Sector_SetFloorScale(5),
	191:SetPlayerProperty(3),
	192:Ceiling_LowerToHighestFloor(2),
	193:Ceiling_LowerInstant(3),
	194:Ceiling_RaiseInstant(3),
	195:Ceiling_CrushRaiseAndStayA(4,5),
	196:Ceiling_CrushAndRaiseA(4,5),
	197:Ceiling_CrushAndRaiseSilentA(4,5),
	198:Ceiling_RaiseByValueTimes8(3),
	199:Ceiling_LowerByValueTimes8(3),
	200:Generic_Floor(5),
	201:Generic_Ceiling(5),
	202:Generic_Door(5),
	203:Generic_Lift(5),
	204:Generic_Stairs(5),
	205:Generic_Crusher(5),
	206:Plat_DownWaitUpStayLip(4,5),
	207:Plat_PerpetualRaiseLip(4),
	208:TranslucentLine(2,3),
//	209:Transfer_Heights,
//	210:Transfer_FloorLight,
//	211:Transfer_CeilingLight,
	212:Sector_SetColor(4,5),
	213:Sector_SetFade(4),
	214:Sector_SetDamage(3),
	215:Teleport_Line(2),
	216:Sector_SetGravity(3),
	217:Stairs_BuildUpDoom(5),
	218:Sector_SetWind(4),
	219:Sector_SetFriction(2),
	220:Sector_SetCurrent(4),
	221:Scroll_Texture_Both(5),
//	222:Scroll_Texture_Model,
	223:Scroll_Floor(4),
	224:Scroll_Ceiling(4),
//	225:Scroll_Texture_Offsets,
	226:ACS_ExecuteAlways(2,5),
//	227:PointPush_SetForce,
	228:Plat_RaiseAndStayTx0(2),
	229:Thing_SetGoal(3,4),
	230:Plat_UpByValueStayTx(3),
	231:Plat_ToggleCeiling(1),
	232:Light_StrobeDoom(3),
	233:Light_MinNeighbor(1),
	234:Light_MaxNeighbor(1),
	235:Floor_TransferTrigger(1),
	236:Floor_TransferNumeric(1),
	237:ChangeCamera(3),
	238:Floor_RaiseToLowestCeiling(2),
	239:Floor_RaiseByValueTxTy(3),
	240:Floor_RaiseByTexture(2),
	241:Floor_LowerToLowestTxTy(2),
	242:Floor_LowerToHighest(3,4),
	243:Exit_Normal(1),
	244:Exit_Secret(1),
	245:Elevator_RaiseToNearest(2),
	246:Elevator_MoveToFloor(2),
	247:Elevator_LowerToNearest(2),
	248:HealThing(1,2),
	249:Door_CloseWaitOpen(3, 4),
	250:Floor_Donut(3),
	251:FloorAndCeiling_LowerRaise(3),
	252:Ceiling_RaiseToNearest(2),
	253:Ceiling_LowerToLowest(2),
	254:Ceiling_LowerToFloor(2),
	255:Ceiling_CrushRaiseAndStaySilA(4,5),
	
	// internal functions have negative values
	-1:GetLineUDMFInt(2),
	-2:GetLineUDMFFixed(2),
	-3:GetThingUDMFInt(2),
	-4:GetThingUDMFFixed(2),
	-5:GetSectorUDMFInt(2),
	-6:GetSectorUDMFFixed(2),
	-7:GetSideUDMFInt(3),
	-8:GetSideUDMFFixed(3),
	-9:GetActorVelX(1),
	-10:GetActorVelY(1),
	-11:GetActorVelZ(1),
	-12:SetActivator(1,2),
	-13:SetActivatorToTarget(1),
	-14:GetActorViewHeight(1),
	-15:GetChar(2),
	-16:GetAirSupply(1),
	-17:SetAirSupply(2),
	-18:SetSkyScrollSpeed(2),
	-19:GetArmorType(2),
	-20:SpawnSpotForced(4),
	-21:SpawnSpotFacingForced(3),
	-22:CheckActorProperty(3),
	-23:SetActorVelocity(6),
	-24:SetUserVariable(3),
	-25:GetUserVariable(2),
	-26:Radius_Quake2(6),
	-27:CheckActorClass(2),
	-28:SetUserArray(4),
	-29:GetUserArray(3),
	-30:SoundSequenceOnActor(2),
	-31:SoundSequenceOnSector(3),
	-32:SoundSequenceOnPolyobj(2),
	-33:GetPolyobjX(1),
	-34:GetPolyobjY(1),
	-35:CheckSight(3),
	-36:SpawnForced(6),
	-37:AnnouncerSound(2),
	-38:SetPointer(2,4),
	-39:ACS_NamedExecute(2,5),
	-40:ACS_NamedSuspend(2),
	-41:ACS_NamedTerminate(2),
	-42:ACS_NamedLockedExecute(5),
	-43:ACS_NamedLockedExecuteDoor(5),
	-44:ACS_NamedExecuteWithResult(1,4),
	-45:ACS_NamedExecuteAlways(2,5),
	-46:UniqueTID(0,2),
	-47:IsTIDUsed(1),
	//-48:Sqrt(1),
	//-49:FixedSqrt(1),
	-50:VectorLength(2),
	-51:SetHUDClipRect(4,5),
	-52:SetHUDWrapWidth(1),
	
	// ZDaemon's
	-19260:GetTeamScore(1),
	-19261:SetTeamScore(2),
	
    -100:ResetMap(0),
    -101:PlayerIsSpectator(1),
    -102:ConsolePlayerNumber(0),
    -103:GetTeamProperty(2),
    -104:GetPlayerLivesLeft(1),
    -105:SetPlayerLivesLeft(2),
    -106:KickFromGame(2),

	-1000:__EndOfList__(10);
	
	

Don't try messing with any of that - I just copy-pasted it, but otherwise don't touch zspecial.acs.
3. After that, configure your wad editor to find your ACC for acs scripts so they can be compiled.
4. Compile your scripts!

[bruiserdaemon]

Wait, how do i extract the maps to a separate folder? You mean a new folder in the samsarahold code directory ( opened with Slade )? Or a new folder on windows? And after i compiled the scripts what should i do, copy and paste them in the original folder or what?

[Untitled]

Wait, how do i extract the maps to a separate folder? You mean a new folder in the samsarahold code directory ( opened with Slade )? Or a new folder on windows? And after i compiled the scripts what should i do, copy and paste them in the original folder or what?

Oh right.

Yeah, just create a separate folder for your maps (as slade will not let you compile the acs in the pk3 itself) outside of the pk3, in a windows directory.

After compiling the scripts for the map, replace the map in the pk3 with the modified version of it. Create backups if you want the original for reference.

Then, run zandronum again, with the modified version.

Though, there are a lot of (unlisted) map changes for the beta, so it's probably better to wait for that to come out and download that first, THEN start modifying the maps to your heart's content.

[bruiserdaemon]

Ok i managed to extract the maps to windows, opened them with slade and tried to compile ACS but failed. Then i did the followind, download the ACC program along with the 4 files mentioned above, then tried to open zpecial.acs but it tells me i need the proper PROGRAM to open it, which results in me downloading fileviewer from microsoft but it doens't do that in the demo version i have to buy the full version.... so any other way to open that acs file??

[HexaDoken]

I will open you the ultimate secret of the universe. It's kind of scary. Ready yet?

Zspecial.acs is actually a text file.

Sic your notepad.exe on it, or whatever your preferred text editor is - should work wonders.

[bruiserdaemon]

ohoh well yes that works indeed. Anyway Slade lets me compile the scripts inside the pk3 without having to extract it! So much trouble for nothing. Yeah now they work properly, thanks.

[Untitled]

ohoh well yes that works indeed. Anyway Slade lets me compile the scripts inside the pk3 without having to extract it! So much trouble for nothing. Yeah now they work properly, thanks.

You still need the modified zspecial.acs though, and that was the trickiest part.

And yeah, as a warning, there is a whole bunch of map changes coming for the next beta (including a HUGE one which I can't give away until it's released), so I wouldn't go TOO wild quite yet.

[bruiserdaemon]

You should work on the bosses part, me thinks. As i said many maps need some kind of boss, more powerful than the dozenal demons. Let's say all maps would be nice with a boss.

[Untitled]

Alright, beta 1 is released! Check OP for changelog.

Servers are up!

This might be the best build yet, so have fun!

[bruiserdaemon]

Beta 1:
-STR14's 7th wave dramatically shortened in multiplayer.
-STR27 has been severely shortened, as to no longer take absolutely forever to beat in multiplayer.
-New: Corvus now has the Proximity Mine of the Ancients.
-Doomguy's Stunner has been moved from Slot 1 to Unique Slot, with the Flamer being moved from Unique to Slot 4, using cell ammo.
-STR35 has been made somewhat harder - not too much, though.
-Final Boss hopefully less likely to crash servers.
-Final Boss' introduction should work properly now.
-Something secret.

Are these the changes for beta 1?? I tought there was much more going on

---

You should definitely do something about the camping thing... as i noted playing online, the main strategy was placing all the turrets and reinforcements near the spawning zone, resulting in the demons being killed as they spawn. The original stronghold was not like that, as the reinforcements were weak, and you could carry less sentries.

[Untitled]

Beta 1:
-STR14's 7th wave dramatically shortened in multiplayer.
-STR27 has been severely shortened, as to no longer take absolutely forever to beat in multiplayer.
-New: Corvus now has the Proximity Mine of the Ancients.
-Doomguy's Stunner has been moved from Slot 1 to Unique Slot, with the Flamer being moved from Unique to Slot 4, using cell ammo.
-STR35 has been made somewhat harder - not too much, though.
-Final Boss hopefully less likely to crash servers.
-Final Boss' introduction should work properly now.
-Something secret.

Are these the changes for beta 1?? I tought there was much more going on

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You should definitely do something about the camping thing... as i noted playing online, the main strategy was placing all the turrets and reinforcements near the spawning zone, resulting in the demons being killed as they spawn. The original stronghold was not like that, as the reinforcements were weak, and you could carry less sentries.

There's actually a lot more changes, but most of them are developer-side; things that I messed with that most of the player-side won't notice; though you're right, I forgot to mention the thing I did with samsara_uniquestart.

Marines and Sentries are funny in that they pretty much are the ultimate crowd-follower item - one reinforcement beacon is pretty much straight-up useless, 30 (6 players all buying 5) is a black-comedy show for the monsters until the bosses show up -

Admittedly, the beacons in their current incarnation only exist because I gave in to popular request - waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when I started samsarahold (before it was called samsarahold), I was still just trying to find out what to do to make everything work, and I wanted something samsara-related for the beacons. In then turned out that EVERYONE wanted the shiny strife beacons (even the developer of the original samsara, who I hold in *very* high regard (if only for creating samsara, metroid: dreadnaught, demonsteele, and push, of which all but metroid have won cacowards)), so I kind of got unanimously voted into putting them in - even though they have done hell for balance. To make things worse, they've been in for so long most people can't remember a time where they weren't in.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Sentries have been max 5 for as long as long as I've played stronghold online - it's been like that since I online played it back in 2010, so any tweaks are probably going to be made to their behavior, not to their numbers. And again, it's a case of "lol everyone does it" that truly breaks them.

Though, if everyone puts down, say, 2 super turrets and 5 normal ones, I actually feel it *should* dominate the first couple of waves - in terms of item use, if you could imagine one player using a quad damage (having it so a different person quads, going in succession, all with 3 quads, so one player was quadded at all times), it'd have a similar effect (though admittedly quads are best saved for waves in which are actually hard). If you are going to use that many items all on the first wave...

Let's just say that if it's /not/ camping the first wave, I've probably made the first wave too hard. I found that out by a fiasco when I edited STR27 to include anti-camp Archons of Hell on wave one.

Turned out to be a bad idea, as relentless item use was the *only* way to beat them - your weapons simply didn't do enough damage to stop them.

That's why I don't mind stronghold being on the easier side, item-wise; waves which are legitimately impossible, while not common (except for Tier 6), do happen, so the ability to hold them back MUST be done by the items, when the players can't.

For reference, here's what missions tend to get camped, from experience:
All of tier one
STR07, STR10, STR11 if everyone coordinates it together
Half of STR13, STR15 (won't fix because hilarious)
STR17, 1/3rd of STR18, 2/3rds if coordinated,
STR22, STR23 if you don't lose first milestone early, STR26 wave 1-7.

Also, you say you've been playing it online, but I haven't seen you /once/ on the actual server (you know, the master one I personally host). Where are you?

[bruiserdaemon]

Also, you say you've been playing it online, but I haven't seen you /once/ on the actual server (you know, the master one I personally host). Where are you?

I was anonimous, i have been playing the quakeguy. The quadded quakeguy with his quad rocket launcher is an animal, i think you should nerf it a bit...

In my personal modification for example, i took away his quad damage item, he has 140 base health and takes 10% less damage from missiles and rockets. Parias has 145 base health, takes 10% less from bullets, bites and explosions, but his wraithverge is nerfed, and so on....

More defensive power and less offensive power on 7th slot, i think the game should be more like that. The extremely dangerous monsters should be nerfed a bit too, like the atrociously powerful pyrodemon and azazel. They are most surely to kill the player at least a couple of times.

[Untitled]

Also, you say you've been playing it online, but I haven't seen you /once/ on the actual server (you know, the master one I personally host). Where are you?

I was anonimous, i have been playing the quakeguy. The quadded quakeguy with his quad rocket launcher is an animal, i think you should nerf it a bit...

In my personal modification for example, i took away his quad damage item, he has 140 base health and takes 10% less damage from missiles and rockets. Parias has 145 base health, takes 10% less from bullets, bites and explosions, but his wraithverge is nerfed, and so on....

More defensive power and less offensive power on 7th slot, i think the game should be more like that. The extremely dangerous monsters should be nerfed a bit too, like the atrociously powerful pyrodemon and azazel. They are most surely to kill the player at least a couple of times.

Quakeguy's quad rockets are probably his most powerful weapon; it makes up for the fact that he probably also right now has the weakest ultimate - the quad damage, as good as it is, suffers from the problem that it can only be active for 30 seconds for every 90 seconds you're vulnerable. While it may have a better punch, it won't save you if you need to use it, say, for 5 straight minutes (of which BFG waves tend to be long, so this isn't a terribly long estimate).

Wraithverge - yeah, due to the nature of the weapon, it's going to be on the slightly OP side - given how it's 100% crippled against bosses (less than 10% damage, heh), it's very polarizing - I think I got a sweetspot where's it's both overpowered (non bosses) and underpowered (bosses) - and that's about as balanced as I can make it.

I don't like the wraithverge. But it's what Parias has, so there's not much I can do about it.

Azazels (Of the "Insane" tier of monsters, which are all kind of screw you in nature), are pretty much "Screw You: The Monster" There's a reason they don't appear until Tier Six, and even then, only in numbers of 1 or 2. They are designed to be a monster of which makes EVERYONE duck for cover when they show up.

Pyrodemons, (Also of the "Insane" tier), aren't bad in the "dodge this ahahahahaha" sense (in fact, they're attacks, if anything, are easier to avoid than some of the lower tier monsters). They are single-handedly the most unforgiving; a face-hit pyroblast will 200/200 to 0/0 you unless you're Parias (he gets 75% damage resistance against these guys to make up for the fact that he pretty much needs to be in melee range to do much), his basic fireshot 100-0's. On the plus side, they also tend to be great at causing collateral damage to monsters.

And while we're here, the other two "Insane" monsters:

Diabolists: I'll be honest, these are probably getting knocked off the insane tier soon. They honestly don't seem *that* bad. They're not nice, per se (Diabolist fire can 100-0 you if you don't find cover), but the thing is, as long as you have ample cover and room to fire at it, it falls quite easily.

Terminators: AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA good luck. There's absolutely no tips for this guy. Hence why he appears in Tier 3, the end of Tier 5, Tier 6, final mission, and nowhere else. Also hence why half of his appearances are scale-locked; they don't scale their numbers to make things impossible. And hence why he most often appears on limit maps; you can let them through. I kind of designed this guy with the sole intent of terrifying the players whenever you hear the wake-up sound - because you know you just might need to let it through the limit deadline. Only tip is find cover; you'll need it.

Which would be bad enough, but he also has a *lot* of HP (though a slow walking speed), so he tends to not die instantly once everyone's going slot VII mode.

[bruiserdaemon]

Wraithverge - yeah, due to the nature of the weapon, it's going to be on the slightly OP side - given how it's 100% crippled against bosses (less than 10% damage, heh), it's very polarizing - I think I got a sweetspot where's it's both overpowered (non bosses) and underpowered (bosses) - and that's about as balanced as I can make it.

It doesn't make much sense, frankly, if you know it is OP you should nerf it, then it is up to the players to not waste ammo on bosses ( the hammer of retribution does nice dmg to bosses ).

[HexaDoken]

The problem is that wraithverge is highly nerf-resistant.

Thing is - a lot of wraithverge functionality is hard-coded, i.e. impossible to change without changing the source of the game. And changing the source of the game would mean that there'd need to be a separate version of Zandro to play this with. In general, because of this, there is honestly not a whole lot a modder can do about it.

Raise damage by one, and it destroys universes. Lower damage by one, and it can't kill an imp in a single shot. Raise damage by 0.5, and the thing crashes.

Blame ZDoom coding on this one.

[Untitled]

Yeah, I'll quote myself and term on this one:

<Untitled> I FRICKIN HATE HEXEN NATIVE FUNCTIONS
<TerminusEst13> fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuck Hexen.

For all of things Hexen is, "easy to work with and customize" is not among them.