[WIP] Doom: Apocalypse [Recruiting]

[Joager]

Doom: Apocalypse is a old idea created by BrDOOM (RIP) forums. Back in 2006, they tried to do a domination game where you could control both marines and demons. The project never succeeded because they thought it was "impossible".

Many projects came and showed them that it's possible: All Out War 2, Ghouls versus Humans...

Now we can do it. Doom: Apocalypse will finally be completed.

Gameplay

Doom: Apocalypse is based around multiple games. At start, I'm working with the Domination gamemode, where each team must control certain points of the map to proceed.

The gameplay is also based around classes:

Human Team
[spoiler]--OFFENSIVE--
Marine: Jack of all trades, master of none. The marine is based on being the initial class in battle.
Weapons: Shotgun, Pistol, Chaingun, Fist.

Berserker: Armed with a chainsaw, his melee attacks and high HP prove that he can simply enter the fight and kill everything around him.
Weapons: Chainsaw.

Rocket Marine: Armed with a rocket launcher, his main focus is to wipe entire groups and mechs. He's fairly weak in close range fights.
Weapons: Rocket Launcher, Pistol, Fist.

--DEFENSIVE--
Sniper: Being a different kind of defensive soldier, the Sniper stays away from the fight, but still killing anything in his way. His weapon is extremely powerful, and will kill any weak monster (-100 HP)
Weapons: Sniper Rifle, Pistol, Fist.

Heavy Chaingunner: Slow but efficient, this class is based around protecting it's base. On the other hand, it's completely useless outside of his base, and will be killed fast.
Weapons: Heavy Chaingun, Fist.

--SUPPORT--
Medic: The medic serves on one purpose: Healing allies. His weapons are fairly weak, but his heal is extremely useful. A must have on any team.
Weapons: Heal Gun, Pistol, Fist.

Scout: Extremely quick and using a knife, the Scout will kill any minor demon that comes on his way. His special ability is becoming invisible and getting behind enemy lines, killing their long range attackers.
Weapons: Knife, Shotgun, Fist.

Plasma Gunner: His weapon doesn't do a lot of damage, and consumes a lot of ammo. Though, his projectiles can confuse enemies and even kill some of them.
Weapons: Plasma Gun, Pistol, Fist.

--SPECIAL WEAPONS--
Double Shotgun: Avaiable at base after some minutes.
BFG: Avaiable at base when the game is nearly over.

--MECHS--
Raider: Giant mech with double machine guns and rocket launchers. Fairly low HP. Spawns at the base's garage.

More classes coming soon.[/spoiler]

Demon Team:
[spoiler]--OFFENSIVE--
Pinky Demon: An high hp bruiser that excels in going in the middle of the fight and wiping the enemy team.
Weapon: Bite.

Lost Soul: A modified demon that has more HP and deals more damage than the normal Lost Soul. Additionally, it moves faster. Based around
confusing enemies and killing low health targets.
Weapon: Bite.

Arachnotron: Using his plasma gun to kill everything, he's based around wiping entire teams with it.
Weapon: Plasma Machine Gun.

--DEFENSIVE--
Sniper Zombie: Long range defender that is the countepart of the Sniper Marine.
Weapons: Sniper Rifle, Pistol, Fist.

Cacodemon: Giant flying meatball. Has high HP and it's projectiles deal high damage, but it's an extremely slow unit.
Weapons: Bite, Fireball.

--SUPPORT--
Archvile: Revives dead monsters and deal high damage. It's extremely easy to kill.
Weapons: Burn, Revive.

Imp: Not your average Imp Demon. It's a modified demon that now has the power to become invisible and kill marines with one stab. It lost his power to throw fireballs, though.

Weapons: Claws.

Hell Knight: Medium damage, but extremely high HP. Based around tanking in the middle of the fight, without the need to kill anything, only to be focused.

Weapons: Hellball, Claws.

--SPECIAL--
Baron of Hell: Avaiable after a few minutes. Is about the double of the Hell Knight.
Mancubus: Avaiable after a few minutes. Deals high damage and has high hp, but it's the slowest unit on the game.

--MECHS--
Cyberdemon: Sends extremely powerful rockets that consumes everything they hit. Also, has the highest HP in the game.

More coming soon.[/spoiler]

Gamemodes:
[spoiler]Domination - Capture several points on the map and keep them to score. The team that gets a certain score first wins.

More coming soon.[/spoiler]

Maps:
[spoiler]Map01: First Invasion (Joager) - 80%
Note: Only need to apply lightning, put some textures in.
Screens:

Map02:
Map03:
Map04:
Map05:
Map06:
Map07:
Map08:
Map09:
Map10:[/spoiler]


We are recruiting! if you want to help the project, contact me here or on Skype: Oplelo.

We need every kind of help: mappers, coders...

[Dusk]

With maps like that and being obviously a newcomer, do you seriously expect anyone with a clear mind to join your team? You should get more experience in mapping first. You are being over-ambitious and because of that this project will fail. Do something smaller and simpler first to get better at modding before taking on something like this, especially considering you're practically asking people to do everything for you. That's not how project management works. The leader does the bulk of the work!

Oh and BTW: marines vs demon mods already exist. There's a bulk of them out there already, like Master of Puppets and Internal Conflict.

EDIT:

We are recruiting!

Who's `we`?

Don't get my post wrong - it's great that there are new and aspiring modders out there, you are simply trying to take on something too big right off the bat.

[Joager]

With maps like that and being obviously a newcomer, do you seriously expect anyone with a clear mind to join your team? You should get more experience in mapping first. You are being over-ambitious and because of that this project will fail. Do something smaller and simpler first to get better at modding before taking on something like this, especially considering you're practically asking people to do everything for you. That's not how project management works. The leader does the bulk of the work!

Wait a second, because I didn't participate on the Zandronum forums I'm a newcomer? What?

Did you even read that I'm on Doom since 2006?

[BloodyAcid]

Wait a second, because I didn't participate on the Zandronum forums I'm a newcomer? What?

Your maps are that of a beginner. They're bland and lack much creativity for such a grand project. Dusk never made any personal assumptions on your experience with Doom.

Did you even read that I'm on Doom since 2006?

Does it matter? If it does, you misread Dusk's post to begin with.

Oh and BTW: marines vs demon mods already exist. There's a bulk of them out there already, like Master of Puppets and Internal Conflict.

For the record, Internal Conflict is demons vs demons :)

[Dusk]

The amount of time you've spent anywhere doesn't mean anything, really. The maps seem quite sub-par and you don't seem to have much done if you're asking for help on absolutely everything with little evidence of done work.

[Joager]

Wait a second, because I didn't participate on the Zandronum forums I'm a newcomer? What?

Your maps are that of a beginner. Dusk never made any personal assumptions on your experience with Doom.

Did you even read that I'm on Doom since 2006?

Does it matter? If it does, you misread Dusk's post to begin with.

Oh and BTW: marines vs demon mods already exist. There's a bulk of them out there already, like Master of Puppets and Internal Conflict.

For the record, Internal Conflict is demons vs demons :)

Yeah, I'm from Brazil. Probably my English still sucks.

I understood what you said about beginner, though, take in count that:

I didn't even touch the lightning yet (everything is 255)
I WON'T detail it more than it's needed. I have a trauma with KDIZD that it was so detailed that it simply burned my eyes, everything looked out of focus for a 1994 game. I'm working more on map balance now.

But I understand what you're saying about teams, and I honestly don't care. I'm calling people to help, if they don't want, I can do just like my old friend Doomero did on his old projects, doing great stuff alone.

[Dynamo]

I'd humbly advise to start on something that's FAR smaller in scope and then build from there. Like a bunch of single player maps for example.

[Joager]

There is a difference between not detailing and looking like a ten minute dump. Thus far yours is the latter. Grandiose packs like this demand higher detail maps to showcase it.

Honestly, what's large on this?

Now Zandronum pratically do anything free to you. The classes require easy work to be made, the ACS is extremely simple, there are no "complicated" things like engineers or builders.

It's basically a domination (that, if I remember right, is already built in Zandronum's engine) with twisted classes (that are easy to make). Almost no ACS needed, only DECORATE.

The pack is not grandious, it's just my hobby.

[Zeberpal]

To be honest I don't see this concept being more interesting than Master of Puppets or Domination packs by aabra or cybershark.
And I hate to say that but this project will most likely not be completed in the first place because of many reasons.

[ibm5155]

So do you map since 2006 or play doom since 2006? I´m sorry but with that large time I was expecting something better on that all time of mapping experience :s...

Well on Doom engine nowaday you can do everything you want, but depending of what do you really wanna do it´ll require more ability and time...

well, I don´t know if I´m wrong, but dominating areas to win, I think there´s a complete mod that have this idea.

[Medicris]

Jeez, you guys could have chose your words differently... you probably look hostile and domineering viewed from the outside.

Though I don't disagree with their main points. Don't get me wrong: as fun as the idea of it could be, there's complete, similar polished mods of the thing you're trying to do in the end. When they say "it's already made", they're not just trying to put you down. They mean that they're concerned that your mod won't be played in competition of something very similar already there. Unless it's just coding practice for you, they're just concerned that your effort will just go to waste when it could have gone towards something no one's done before.

Have fun with it if you want, but we're just warning you: since it's in the tough market of multiplayer-only mods in a fairly small number of players to draw from, you really gotta put something impressive out there to compete for players with the popular ones. And that's not easy for your first mod, especially alone.

You like Domination, right? Why not try out making some awesome Domination maps and show everyone the best you can do? Then you can get more experience and backing for this project.

[Avi]

Exactly what Medicris stated: everyone here (though a touch negatively, even I'll admit) feels like we've seen this kind of project made before in the past. For you, this means not only do you have to compete with projects people play consistently (for example: AoW, GvH, Samsara (aka, the thing everyone should be playing. :P), but you ALSO have to compete with projects that have essentially created the same gaming experience you yourself want to recreate. Can you see why this is an issue for you?

Again, the biggest focus here is that with all the indirect competition for online bodies playing their wads, your project as it stands right now will at best be hosted by you or a friend. Nobody will take the time to host this because there are so much variety on Zandronum. The odds of someone wanting to play that-wad-that-felt-like-this-other-wad-people-liked-more versus yours are very much not in your favor.

So, what does this mean for you? Well, it means that you're about to spend months, maybe even a year (or more!) perfecting what in your mind is the perfect gameplay experience. And, when it's time to upload that final version you've spent all that time on perfecting, who's going to play it? Probably you and a couple of your closest online friends and that's it. I, personally, would be devastated emotionally if I spent forever-and-a-half working my ass off to then feel like nobody gives two shits about the hours and hours (not all of which were FUN to actually burn through, I might add) I "wasted" building this gaming experience.

If your goal is to make a huge project for the challenge of it, awesome! More power to you man. --Just remember, all the people you want to join you in this project have to get the same reward out of it as you. And right now, from the screenshots I saw, I don't know if I personally would want to be a part of that. I hope this helps you understand what everyone around here is thinking when they see a new guy jump into a huge project, and also expects everyone to follow him.

[UnTrustable]

And this is one of the things that i meant about the community.
Sure they all mean well and in the best of interests of the 'new comer'.

I once was a new comer too, but thanks to this one person (Zalewa if you must know) his patients
and his opportunity for me to grow, he taught me the things i needed to know.
When will some of you DO what this person did for me?
No matter how much good intensions you meant in this 'advise' and in the best interests for the new comer,
You are pushing them all away this way.
Good work people. I applaud haha.
Make the community smaller, and smaller.
That is what i want you guys to do. Don't blame me, im not doing anything to destroy this small community.

Sorry for the derailing, but this topic is almost destroyed anyways, and
it shows the exact atmosphere that i have told you guys NOT to do.

@Joager, good luck with this project. We all started small once, and if you like to use only standard Doom textures
without all that fancy shiney textures and all the MUST-HAVE details in the ceilings, walls, floors and what more,
that is up to you.

I remember once a new comer too in one of my (taken over) projects who couldn't detail much himself,
so i offered my help to detail FOR HIM.
Sure i could tell him to fuck off with his poor detailed map, but i KNEW already what that will
bring us all, so instead i offered my services. Getting my message? Understand the differences between yours and my methode to approach people?
Its just a small free advise from me to this community. ;)
See how things can turn if you SUPPORT more than bashing people instead. HELP each other out instead of telling them, This aint going to be good at all.
I say bashing, because thats how it comes over to the other.
Sure you guys meant it well... don't get me wrong.

Now, if my message doesnt make any sense to you guys, just continue doing your good intensions and giving your good-meant advises to new comers (or even to experiented people).
I see this community slowly get overruled by less experiented users.
Good luck community. You're gonna need it.

[Lollipop]

just to be rude to everyone bracet:
{
Fuck all you Guys WHO only got bullshit to say that really makes you look like idiots and total pricks to people WHO don't know you and newcomers WHO don't know what they are meddleing with such as myself WHO is a complete un-talented faggot WHO got an internet browser that auto-corrects WHO to big letters (also other main gramma errors).
}

Now to more serious stuff:
Joager, I will support your project as much as I can, I have sent you a Skype request as your post "demands" (lol) and I hope its the right one I sent to :P
here are my fields of Work:
ACS, mostly working with int's, I might Work with CVARs, as Dusk (pro guy) claims that multiplayer kills Int's and they don't Work proberly (needs fix torr). I can also do map and inventory manipulation and other candy.
DECORATE: scarce supply of skills, mainly making simple shit complicated in a totally wasted looking manner that only makes sence to myself, but it mostly Works.
MAPS: I suck at most, but I know some tricks that can be of great use, some technical tricks. I can also figure out doing some nice Things here and there when it comes to decoration (KDIZD is over decorated, yes, but dont underdecorate a room(A box storage facillity with only 1 box for example?))
Graphics: dont ask, bloody acid have been bitching on me once for "lack of artistic effort", which must be a disease we both and many others got, but I can make fusions of diferent flats for map usage.

Also, I agree with untrustable, this community got an army of new users, and more are coming, so you have to remove dat rude attitude that you always show to people, and greet them like they are other human beings.
Good luck with dat tho.

And good luck with project.

/FAGGOT IN FRONT OF SCREEN WRITING THIS AKA LOLLIPOP

NOTE: lets kickstart this

IGOR WAS HERE.

[Combinebobnt]

The teletubby cuddly attitude doesn't work because you have to be realistic when making big projects. If your project isn't good, nobody will play it. You should be very grateful you are actually getting constructive criticism instead of garbage responses as it greatly helps you work on your project, making it a good one instead of yet another gvh style class wad that has been made 20 times before, based on what you have shown.

Oh yeah, if super duper mean words like "sub-par" and "bland" cause responses like the above two, you should probably rethink YOUR attitude instead. I've seen projects that try to isolate themselves in a little happy zone and they usually collapse and suck.

[Lollipop]

Now that is awfully true combinebobnt, but the rude way of the constructive critism can really make people jsut go ahead and screw the whole community a s*** and go play minecraft with some friends or whatever and never ever move their asses (good for me I was so used to being fucked around with like that in young years IMO).
constructive critism is good indeed, but dont be a prick just because its the 117th time you write the exact same words again... once again...

---

There is a difference between not detailing and looking like a ten minute dump. Thus far yours is the latter. Grandiose packs like this demand higher detail maps to showcase it.

Honestly, what's large on this?

Now Zandronum pratically do anything free to you. The classes require easy work to be made, the ACS is extremely simple, there are no "complicated" things like engineers or builders.

It's basically a domination (that, if I remember right, is already built in Zandronum's engine) with twisted classes (that are easy to make). Almost no ACS needed, only DECORATE.

The pack is not grandious, it's just my hobby.

I just read this again, and I first now remembered to react, and it seems to me that you have never ever opened aow2... -.-
try and open that, first look at the playerclass, then at the weapons and morphs, they are understandable to a point.
then now you must look at the ACS source files, are they "almost no ACS needed"? gad u dunno what ur doing, ACS is everything these days, even more when watermelon gets his op shit done and ready for a workout.
and that "only DECORATE" is just bullshit, the ACS is the more vital part when the project becomes large scale, I really have some work here it seems : D !
Also, the "keeping the points of interest for score" is just a matter of ACS IMO, I can make it in secs tho, as its easy (unless u get demanding)

NOTE: didnt mean this in a bad way, just pointing out that you think you know more than you do, just like me when I started doing shit and smacked my braw for being dumb (he still is tho, unable to learn shit(roast toast: "im a good mapper", le me checks, le me goes to toilet room for a puke)), so I can understand you very much
in short: no offence, ull learn with time.

NOTE: "someguy on aow: lolli is a blabbermouth", hes hella right, late of the day here though
NOTE2: I still support project and is of service (I just tend to talk shitloads of lame stuff)

[CloudFlash]

Dont compare your mod to Ghouls vs Humans, man. They have a "close combat vs ranged weapons" type. Yours mod looks like it isn't going to be much playable, because everyone will just check which class is most op and then play with it, no matter what team balance is, thus creating 10v2 matches and shit like that. Competitive mods need competitive teams; add some clash-of-types to that, like, um, flying team vs ground team, or hitscans team vs balls team, or... you get the idea? Don't put all eggs in one basket if you want to make war between eggs and baskets. ... ... ... ._.