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Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:05 pm
by capodecima
Image

Hi,
i am challenging everyone to me play BO3, everyone who can beat me will get $6 via paypal (yes this is by one dollar more than offered Fluffles :lol: ). But you know make money isnt easy, you have to beat me twice on map01, entryway, this map with chainsaw on balcony. Call it whatever you want. If you lose nothing will happen.
Post here on forum when you want play and we can finish talking details on irc. I am mostly on zandro irc #cz or #priv.
Also the server where we will play is only GV UK.

details:
server: UK GV
system: BO3
map: entryway, map01
Frag limit: 50

See you in game. :biggrin:

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:10 pm
by Nati46
I challenge you!
Don't cry if I camp though :D

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:25 pm
by John Zombie
Giving away 6 dollars would mean bankruptcy for him. Looking forward to see him claiming he's leaving competition for the umpteenth time 2 frags before losing :)

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:14 pm
by SwordGrunt
John Zombie wrote: Giving away 6 dollars would mean bankruptcy for him. Looking forward to see him claiming he's leaving competition for the umpteenth time 2 frags before losing :)
He already said that the winner would have to wait for him to pay because he's already out of money, rofl

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:47 pm
by Tiger
I can't continue biting my tongue on this anymore.

This challenge is complete and utter - - shit. I get what you are trying to do, spark up some meaningful matches, but your execution is outrageously - - pathetic. Before I give out my reasons, I'll start off with this, I have no idea _who_ you are nor your history. Thus, I have no real idea as to your reputation is around here, and I particularly don't give shit either. Now, to start off with, the map you have chosen - is NOT a competitive map! Sadly, and what really disheartens me, you're not the only one that plays this particular map in duels. This map, which seems to be a simple Doom2.wad MAP01 going by the image you have on the main topic, is simply not a competitive map in _any_ regards. The reason why I say this, is due to the fact that: the corridors are simply to cramped, there's not a lot of passage ways nor multiple access areas, not easy to maneuver, and most of all the BFG (assuming it is included) does not add anything meaningful to the game other than gaining an unfair advantage if any player spawns at that 'sweet' spot. This map was intended for Cooperative gameplay, not Deathmatch. I like to think that Deathmatch support was just added to the maps with little regards. But given the time that Doom was created and how big multiplayer was back then, the maps (or including good DM maps) was not really an issue back then, but times have changed. If you really want a competitive version of Doom2.wad MAP01, why not use Dwango5 MAP01 instead? Or better yet, find another obscure competitive maps in /idgames or else where on the internet? I would like to point out Deathz0r's Deathmatch\CTF Multiplayer guide, but as far as I know, that is now forever lost in SkullTag's locked forums. If anyone has knows where to find said guide or a newer version, I would personally like it to be pointed out (I also would like to read it). And lastly, adding money into the game, that can lead into trust issues. I personally wouldn't recommend betting on a game, but if you are so determined on doing so, I would suggest on adding more authenticity that the winner will gain said money. Otherwise, as of right now, I don't trust you in giving me '6' USD if I were to win a match.

That's all I have to say.

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:04 am
by Combinebobnt
What happens if someone sits in the chainsaw area forever with more frags than you? Do you just rage and give them 6$?

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:22 am
by capodecima
Tiger if you saw the topic there is [true warriors only] not [true idiots only].

Bob i dunno this never happens, but i guess if you camp there only for long time you lost.

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:26 am
by Tiger
capodecima wrote: Tiger if you saw the topic there is [true warriors only] not [true idiots only].
Are you trying to imply that I am an 'idiot'? Thank you for insulting me.

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:47 am
by Slim
Uhhhhh.... Doom 2 Map01? Seriously? That's HIGHLY unbalanced, seeing as how the main spawn gets SSG, BFG and Rocket Launcher, I'm not even a competitive player and I think this is a horrible idea.[/i]

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:58 am
by capodecima
Welp i really dont wanted call you idiot, or maybe i wanted but if it hurts, then i am sorry. I dont know you either. I only remember your tiger avatar from skulltag forum. :D
But maybe your post is pretty accurate on some point. People on zandronum dont know this map well, or are scared play it for many reason. Bad respawns, camp, bfg spam etc.
Whole this challenge was kinda joke i know on zandro is not good player on entryway, or even someone willing to play.
But entryway was back in days called best duel map ever. And many players claimed if you know play map entryway, you basically understand DM doom. Which is true, in entryway, you need precise movement, prediction, bfg skills, wallruns and last but not least aim.
If you want read something about entryway strategy you can here. There you can understand map01 really isnt only coop. If you want more, last big tourney on entryway was played 4 years ago on ZD. Here is thread. A lot links are dead there, but i think you can still find some demos there. Peace.

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:51 am
by Kara Kurt
Suicide Slim wrote: Uhhhhh.... Doom 2 Map01? Seriously? That's HIGHLY unbalanced, seeing as how the main spawn gets SSG, BFG and Rocket Launcher, I'm not even a competitive player and I think this is a horrible idea.[/i]
Do you even 1v1?

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:55 am
by Ru5tK1ng
Don't overreact too much. Slim pretty much discredited himself in his own post.

Although I don't particularly care for map01 and Tiger has some points in his post, it's vastly incorrect to say map01 isn't competitive at all. There's enough history to prove you wrong in that regard.

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:05 am
by Slim
Chr0nique wrote: Do you even 1v1?
Suicide Slim wrote: I'm not even a competitive player and I think this is a horrible idea.
I think you missed a sentence. Back on-topic, I wouldn't know because I don't do duels. :P

So don't jump on me like I'm some competitive enthusiast who made a mistake, be it a lack of knowledge or skill, in his duel career.

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:44 am
by Kara Kurt
Well, it is not because you occasionally play 1v1 that you're confirmed competitive player. You could have some with your friends from time to time, I don't know...

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:36 am
by Nati46
Tiger wrote: I can't continue biting my tongue on this anymore.

This challenge is complete and utter - - shit. I get what you are trying to do, spark up some meaningful matches, but your execution is outrageously - - pathetic. Before I give out my reasons, I'll start off with this, I have no idea _who_ you are nor your history. Thus, I have no real idea as to your reputation is around here, and I particularly don't give shit either. Now, to start off with, the map you have chosen - is NOT a competitive map! Sadly, and what really disheartens me, you're not the only one that plays this particular map in duels. This map, which seems to be a simple Doom2.wad MAP01 going by the image you have on the main topic, is simply not a competitive map in _any_ regards. The reason why I say this, is due to the fact that: the corridors are simply to cramped, there's not a lot of passage ways nor multiple access areas, not easy to maneuver, and most of all the BFG (assuming it is included) does not add anything meaningful to the game other than gaining an unfair advantage if any player spawns at that 'sweet' spot. This map was intended for Cooperative gameplay, not Deathmatch. I like to think that Deathmatch support was just added to the maps with little regards. But given the time that Doom was created and how big multiplayer was back then, the maps (or including good DM maps) was not really an issue back then, but times have changed. If you really want a competitive version of Doom2.wad MAP01, why not use Dwango5 MAP01 instead? Or better yet, find another obscure competitive maps in /idgames or else where on the internet? I would like to point out Deathz0r's Deathmatch\CTF Multiplayer guide, but as far as I know, that is now forever lost in SkullTag's locked forums. If anyone has knows where to find said guide or a newer version, I would personally like it to be pointed out (I also would like to read it). And lastly, adding money into the game, that can lead into trust issues. I personally wouldn't recommend betting on a game, but if you are so determined on doing so, I would suggest on adding more authenticity that the winner will gain said money. Otherwise, as of right now, I don't trust you in giving me '6' USD if I were to win a match.

That's all I have to say.
Well you haven't been around that often but I'm pretty sure everybody knows capo :wink: .
As people have pointed, map01 is long established as a duel map amongst the oldschool doomers (it's basically the first established doom2 duel map), even after many other duel maps started popping up and becoming popular.
It has been in many tournaments, mostly on zdaemon tho, the more new-era oriented zandronum/skulltag playerbase doesn't like it, and I can undertsand, it's also not my favorite map either partly due to the reasons you said above, but its competitive popularity cannot be denied (Sans zandronum as I said before, not many people like it.)
Ya and I agree with you, I don't count on him giving the prize, esp. since he hardly specified any conditions (unreasonable camping, delaying, what happens in timeouts, etc.)

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:21 pm
by Kara Kurt
To be honest D2M1 has become more of a "multipurpose" map than a simple Doom 2 singleplayer map from 1994. It is played everywhere in any way and anytime nowadays!

In-fact, due to its popularity, it appears that D2M1 is used in various game modes (speedrun, ffa, 1v1, in addition to the coop) especially in tournaments and challenges, and even in survival games. (Killing Floor, Left 4 Doom, and I'm pretty sure I'm missing few ones...) And it's not only used as a reference, a dedication, a tribute, to remember how awesome Doom is or anything, but the fact is that the gameplay is pretty campy and forces players help each other. Plus, it offers an enjoyable playability when camping in the blue room knowing that they will (mobs) leave you and your team mates no choice, welding the door and waiting for mobs; quite exciting.

The way how D2M1 was designed fits perfectly with these kind of co-op games, now you're telling me that it still is played in coop but it's not as if D2M1 was originally multiplayer map.

Half Life 2 and Counter Strike had it as well, would have been made for fun though.

---

Anyway, Nati is right, there was a time that D2M1 was regularly played in the tournaments - and I'm not even talking tournaments based on this map - back when ZD competitive scene wasn't in a dying state. Actually, you can consider it a challenging duel map if 2 worthy players are facing each others, or vice versa, ain't one if you don't own some experiences in there.

There is a website that FX02 and Sedlo are the authors where you could challenge any 'Doomgods' in here, since it had a subforum those addicted to D2M1.

For this reason, Sedlo, also known as Marijo Sedlic for his speedrun skills, used to challenge decent opponents.

Go grab some demos in here : http://www.doom.com.hr/public/doom2/demos/challenge/

Anyway, I also remember that one of the D2M1 tournaments was quite underfilled, which was the EU tournament with the most participants (about 32); everyone gave a try to it, was a good success due to the amount of forfeits being close to 0 (hazardously Sedlo was the one that forfeited)

Brackets: http://doom.machata24.cz/zdeuro/2010_07 ... y_2010.htm

---

Now, I do not write this all because I'm a D2M1 fan with such prediction skills, simply because I do know what their feelings are towards this map, because I like playing in the same spirit as those playing D2M1...

Skillwise, if you're a versatile duel player then you should be able to play every maps with no contraints instead of only focusing on a few maps that most of the new generation players doesn't care, but hey, I can fully understand those that were around enough to know what their states are goods at, get asked why you don't like D2M1, why do you only play it in the tournaments, and honestly I never really liked playing on Entryway / D5M1 in public servers or when inviting somebody to play some... it is so long and campy, that the player with which was hungering for some games, tends to leave / get bored because of a campy 30 minutes game...

I also empathize with those despite having given their bests but were never been as good as the elite players, may hate or not handle the map anymore.
Therefore, unless when I feel like playing it, the reason why I do not play D2M1 is because I'm somehow one of them.

Some players tried aka. the video below, some didn't, and some wouldn't like to play better opponents on it, whatever our reasons or definitions of duel are.
phpBB [video]
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If you think you're as bad as this player on the video then welcome to the group.

On the other hand, I can't stand the attitude that some people approach when they bitches on their opponents yet obviously doesn't know anything about the map, you cannot simply blame your opponent or the map itself because you didn't manage to exploit spawns / evade from them better than your opponent, it doesn't work like that, it's only your own fault, because as one_Two stated, chances are both get equal spawn anywhere.

After all, being good at this map is not given to everyone, it is not all about aiming, but you should be able to : be mentally prepared, learn to listen, know what your opponent is doing, grab the Plasma perfectly, evade etc etc.

To conclude, this video below shows an example of enjoyable, tight, dynamic and stressful tournament game, during which the two opponents had to adapt to the situations, the kind of game that I enjoyed because their situations were reversing :
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All this said, I'm not sure if this thing worth the 6 dollars he wants to give, knowing that you would have to deal with him if you get a loss heh!

Still looking forward to seeing some since I haven't seen D2M1 challenges / tourneys on Zandro yet, even if it ain't gonna be a so-serious deal compared to what I have seen on ZD.

Edit: if the last video that I posted does not appear, try it in ~15 minutes...

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:33 pm
by capodecima
Your videos are still broken mate.

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:44 pm
by Tiger
After looking at some opinionated forums and some of the retorts users have given on this topic, - while trying to stay open minded, I'll just accept that the map is partially 'competitive' - given in some conditions. One flaw that really stands out and why I wont say it is outright 'competitive', is the normal player spawn starts (the balcony). As Combinebobnt has already mentioned and what I forgot during writing my post, it is possible for one player to just ultimately - - - stay on that balcony. Of course, and stating the obvious, the game is pretty much ruined from that point. To counter this issue, I would still vouch for Dwango5 MAP01. With 'D5M1', it is not easily possible to stay in a region that is impossible for the other player to reach. I could continue on with weapon placement (BFG), but then I'll turn this into a compare and contrast between Doom2 MAP01 and Dwango5 MAP01.

Moreover, I am rather glad to see sensible posts and not the usual trashposts I sometimes see on these forums :). I was really close to telling Infurnus to kill\ban\deactivate my forum account after reading Capodecima's post. I have not been happy on these forums, but it's nice when people take the time to reasonably post retorts as opposed to idiotic replies.

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:01 pm
by capodecima
Welp the camp on balcony is not really big problem. In tourney i mentioned which ran dew was always referee which watch over ppl which are camping, but this was not really problem at all. Why nowadays seems like everything need rules/security? Is it bcz ppl are too dumb nowadays? Who know.

"I was really close to telling Infurnus to kill\ban\deactivate my forum account after reading Capodecima's post."

Also on this i laughed really hard, its always easier just dont use something you dislike. Than involve to this another ppl. After you will called drama queen. ;)

RE: Challenging zandronum duelers [true warriors only]

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:04 pm
by Kara Kurt
Tiger wrote: I'll just accept that the map is partially 'competitive' - given in some conditions.
+1

Anyway, the Turska - Titan video is now available, enjoy it in 720p if your connection allows you to. Don't forget to stop @ 19:55 tho...