Zandronum

For those of you who play on all 3 ports, we're all used to different things were able to do and not do.

There are two very prominent things that come to mind which I'd like your opinions on.

1) Window jump on map26
The author did *not* intend for the sr50 window jump to be made, would you still like it to be available in zandro even though it's not supposed to be in there (due to Carnevil having a messed up air velocity thing allowing players to have more air movement). Would you like the map to play the way it's meant to be played, or stay in its current state where the window jump is possible?

2) Flags dropping
Flags in all other ports fall through the bridge. This allows for more strategy when placing yourself since flags can go through the ground (like in map04 or others w/ invisible bridges). Which one would you prefer? Flags staying as they are, or a variable to toggle them falling through?

3) Multiple CTF battles in one server
Would you be up for having a CTF server that converts to possible 3 way CTF if the players choose?
Example: If there is 9 players, all the players can choose if they want to play 3 way CTF on the priv maps (when they are re-designed of course if the community wants), or possibly even four way. Players with this new system will still be able to play with 2 teams even if theres 30+ people, but I wonder if that would make it so certain people get to play (up to a 16 player game if fours w/ fours are active). Thoughts? Should this be part of future wads or should CTF just remain two teams forever?

1) I'm impartial to this. I think it adds an extra level of challenge for the D, but it can be hard for runners who don't know how to sr50 properly. I wouldn't be affected one way or the other if it stayed or was fixed.

2) I'm for this, it'll give the other team a fighting chance to get the flag even after the runner has died.

3) Yes again. 3-way ctf sounds very fun.

Even though the author for map26 did not intend for there to be sr50 and the ability to jump through the window, the author of map08 also did not intend for there to be any rocket jumping in his map. These are incredibly old school traits to these first sets of ctf maps that really cannot just be "fixed" it's part of tradition like knowing certain secrets on a map that are always explored or the way all ports handle ctf captains.

I accidently voted it wrong... I did NOT mean to vote for disallowing the map26 SR50 jump, I wanted to contine allowing it

I did NOT want to vote for disallowing the flags dropping through, I want them to.

And the rest are right.

Shane wrote: Even though the author for map26 did not intend for there to be sr50 and the ability to jump through the window, the author of map08 also did not intend for there to be any rocket jumping in his map. These are incredibly old school traits to these first sets of ctf maps that really cannot just be "fixed" it's part of tradition like knowing certain secrets on a map that are always explored or the way all ports handle ctf captains.

Map26 can be fixed though by modifying the source to allow slightly less air control so that people don't make it into the window.
RJ'ing on map08 is different from this situation because you can RJ on all 3 ports successfully, where you cannot window jump on ZD/oda into it but on zandro you can.

My feedback:

1) The window jump is still possible without SR-50 (atleast in this port)... it's just more difficult of course. And since it's not easy to pull off either way especially when you can easily be pushed away by enemy SSG, I don't really think that it is that necessary. I don't think that it breaks the map in any way.

2) Should be changable according to server managers' perference (perferrably for each map seperately)...In general it does add more strategy but some maps might be better off without it.

3) I have doubts that a loaded server will want to make a 3 way game instead of just going to another priv server.... it should probably just stay 2 way.

Aaah but Water, in ZDaemon it is actually very possible to perform the jump, a certain player (who was a master ctf player and played like 5 years ago in pub) could perform the jump every single time without flaw. It just requires the jumper to be incredibly careful and very skilled.

Shane wrote: Aaah but Water, in ZDaemon it is actually very possible to perform the jump, a certain player (who was a master ctf player and played like 5 years ago in pub) could perform the jump every single time without flaw. It just requires the jumper to be incredibly careful and very skilled.

Are we talking about the same thing? You're saying it is possible to jump into the window from the base right? And someone on ZD was able to do so flawlessly? Not out of the window (from blue armor -> into base), but from base -> window blue armor?

Yeah, I also remember the jump being certainly possible in ZDaemon, have never seen it getting performed in Odamex. Either way, I believe the majority of Zan privers are way too used to how things currently are (me, for example) and such changes would prove to be rather annoying or slightly irritating. I doubt many of us seek such transcendental concepts as Vanilla OS or care about how the map was supposed to be played in its home environment.

As for 3/4-way CTF... just no.

??

The jump is impossible on ZD without being propelled by another person, or by rocket jumping.

Disallow map26 SR50 into window jumping*
window jumping severely breaks map26 in so many ways it's not even funny.

Continue to disallow flags dropping through the bridge*
this is a poor feature of zdaemon and shouldn't be allowed into zandronum. it doesn't make anything more competitive, more dynamic, more anything, except utterly silly

Keep CTF always at 2 teams and never any more*
keep 3way ctf on their own servers and keep them unplayed, just like priv will be if it is forced upon the priv ctf crowd

I actually would like window jumping to stay since it's already a widely used tactic.

Don't let flags fall through the bridge. That's just stupid.

Allow 3/4 way. Keep it on its own servers though, don't just force it on the priv we already have.

I don't play much private CTF, not even public CTF anymore, but I voted to give you my opinions:

1) Disallow map26 SR50 into window jumping.
If the author did not intend to let the players jumping through that window, this shouldn't be done. I voted to keep allowing this, my mistake.

2) Allow flags to drop through the bridge.
We have OpenGL, bloom effect, 3D models and 3D floors and a lot of other fancy stuff, but this is an old-school game right? If we (you) play competitive we should play as the game is, with its bugs (sr-50) and its peculiarities (flags drop through the bridges). Then I know that the sr-50 isn't a bug, but it wasn't intended by the devs, I could bet on this.

3) Allow multiple teams to play in CTF (3/4 way) if the players in the server all agree.
"if the players in the server all agree" I can't see something wrong with playing a 3 or 4 way CTF. It's a great fun.

You guys are playing on Zandronum for a reason; I hate how people are trying to "zdaemonize" the gameplay on this port. If you want zdaemon settings, then well... Go play zdaemon.

Yes flags stay on bridges
Yes 2 teams only
Yes Allow sr50 jumping through the window even if it doesn't work on zdaemon.

1. Get rid of the window jump.
2. Flags should fall through bridges.
3. Keep it at two teams.

Keep the jump

Flags should stay on the bridge

I really dont care about the last question so multiple teams sure

I agree with legion on this one with the window jump

Flags should stay on the bridge for sure : D

Keep the teams at 2

X-Ray wrote: I agree with legion on this one with the window jump

Flags should stay on the bridge for sure : D

Keep the teams at 2

Agreed and if we consider "logic" (even though it's stupid) if doomguy can walk on those texture ladders of "0" thickness, then flags can also stay above them right!

I'm against the third suggestion (keep those to their own servers) but the first two could be made available optionally, for the server hosts to use them according to their own preferences.

Now, as for what I think about them? Turning off the ZDCTF26 window jump would be nice, as long as it is a global change (meaning it would affect all maps with similar settings), and I see the flag dropping through bridges more as a bug than something to be enforced by competition, so you would do good to keep them the way they are.

I voted

Disallow the jump
Allow flags to fall
3-4 teams is fine