The goodbye threads

Discuss operations pertaining directly about the forum here.

Moderator: Website Maintainers

Locked
User avatar
mifu
Lead Administrator
Posts: 1023
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:34 am
Location: Aussie Land
Clan: Demon RiderZ

The goodbye threads

#1

Post by mifu » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:46 pm

Hello fellow Zandronumers

I wanted to talk about these "goodbye" threads.

I get the fact that some people want to announce their leave (even if you are famous or known in the community) problem is these threads are very nice drama baits and they normally end up as a flame war thread or just a bait for trolls to have fun.

In response to a latest thread, we the staff feel that it is best that we forbid these threads from being made. It's not because we are being mean or anything or we are cutting down on freedom of speech. It's because they are nice baits for drama (and it has been proven time and time again that these threads do nothing but cause.... well drama and shit storms)

Any thread that appears like this will be locked and trashed and the OP will be warned for opening the thread.

If you want to leave and announce it, do so elsewhere in private irc channels or private message the ones who you want to announce it too.

Sorry it has come to this but, it should make the forums a better place as well. If you have any concerns of this matter then feel free to contact the staff on irc in the #staff channel.
Image

Arctangent
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:19 am

RE: The goodbye threads

#2

Post by Arctangent » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:51 pm

Well, forbid anyone have any emotional attachments whatsoever to a community, I guess.

User avatar
Ænima
Addicted to Zandronum
Posts: 3345
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:12 pm
Location: Shpongleland

RE: The goodbye threads

#3

Post by Ænima » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:57 pm

If anything you should at least allow posts that are just short "it was fun guys, you can still find me on steam, peace" messages. The only time shitstorms get started is when the OP writes a 2000 word post of their grievances and dissatisfaction like Soul, which inevitably brings everyone in to shitpost and bring up past drama.

If a community member like Cruduxy with no prior drama made a goodbye thread that was just one quick paragraph of something like "goodbye guys, I'm gonna miss all the survival server parties", I don't think it would hurt anything. If anything it would be more helpful for people like me who aren't ever on IRC.
Image ­ ­
­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­
Doom64: Unabsolved: Doom64 and Diablo2 had a baby


ZandroSkins
: a pack made by our community
Squad Radio: a WASD-powered chat menu, add your own sounds
AeniPuffs: neat blood and puff effects

User avatar
mifu
Lead Administrator
Posts: 1023
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:34 am
Location: Aussie Land
Clan: Demon RiderZ

RE: The goodbye threads

#4

Post by mifu » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:00 pm

Arctangent wrote:Well, forbid anyone have any emotional attachments whatsoever to a community, I guess.


Not our intention at all.

You see every time so far, someone announces they are leaving, the thread ends up being shat on. It becomes derailed and a flame war erupts.

It ends up becoming a thread that the staff need to split or lock.

EDIT: Got ninja'd

Ænima wrote:If anything you should at least allow posts that are just short "it was fun guys, you can still find me on steam, peace" messages. The only time shitstorms get started is when the OP writes a 2000 word post of their grievances and dissatisfaction like Soul, which inevitably brings everyone in to shitpost and bring up past drama.

If a community member like Cruduxy with no prior drama made a goodbye thread that was just one quick paragraph of something like "goodbye guys, I'm gonna miss all the survival server parties", I don't think it would hurt anything. If anything it would be more helpful for people like me who aren't ever on IRC.


OK I may have not been clear myself and do apologize. I don't mind the short "its been fun but i gota run" threads. That is fine as its short, sweet etc.

The long posts (Souls being an example, is when we will probably have to take action)
Last edited by mifu on Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

User avatar
Ænima
Addicted to Zandronum
Posts: 3345
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:12 pm
Location: Shpongleland

RE: The goodbye threads

#5

Post by Ænima » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:03 pm

Not EVERY time ... Just every time it's someone like Ten or Soul. A minor shitstorm erupted over Metal's thread too but that was just because of idiots.
Image ­ ­
­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ ­
Doom64: Unabsolved: Doom64 and Diablo2 had a baby


ZandroSkins
: a pack made by our community
Squad Radio: a WASD-powered chat menu, add your own sounds
AeniPuffs: neat blood and puff effects

User avatar
mifu
Lead Administrator
Posts: 1023
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:34 am
Location: Aussie Land
Clan: Demon RiderZ

RE: The goodbye threads

#6

Post by mifu » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:06 pm

Y do people post fast then me :(

Anyways Ænima check out my edit.
Image

User avatar
Cyber'
Forum Regular
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:14 am
Location: Colorado
Clan: The Professionals
Clan Tag: <PRO>
Contact:

RE: The goodbye threads

#7

Post by Cyber' » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:09 pm

It wouldn't matter, there is always one person with the usual "see you in two weeks" comment.
Projects completed : PROCTF, Jump Maze, Tricky ST. RJX.
Progress : RJX2 - Standby... | RJX remastered : Final Detail - 100% Complete! (wad on BE)
Newest Project : Jump Maze 1.5 (X2, JMX): Alpha (layout, minor detail) - Layouts complete: 16. Halfway mark reached!

I always love these calm moments before the storm...

User avatar
Decay
Under Moderation
Posts: 984
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:31 pm
Location: Dweller2 Map11

RE: The goodbye threads

#8

Post by Decay » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:20 pm

Ænima wrote:Not EVERY time ... Just every time it's someone like Ten or Soul. A minor shitstorm erupted over Metal's thread too but that was just because of idiots.
Lol, this is a good example of bringing up stuff that probably shouldn't be brought up. There was more angst and rage in Metal's rage-out than the glorious "fuck all" thread. Cyber's farewell would've been a better example to bring up, though even then I got banned for a year because Metal got mad over a misinterpretation of a simple comment.

In any case, it's probably true that certain people (particularly those with a glutton for punishment) should refrain from these posts, given they are very good bait, but short and sweet notices would be fine (omitting baiting comments in said thread).

User avatar
Samurai
Frequent Poster Miles card holder
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:17 am
Location: England
Clan: Incredible
Clan Tag: [I]

RE: The goodbye threads

#9

Post by Samurai » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:56 pm

Ænima wrote:If anything you should at least allow posts that are just short "it was fun guys, you can still find me on steam, peace" messages. The only time shitstorms get started is when the OP writes a 2000 word post of their grievances and dissatisfaction like Soul, which inevitably brings everyone in to shitpost and bring up past drama.

If a community member like Cruduxy with no prior drama made a goodbye thread that was just one quick paragraph of something like "goodbye guys, I'm gonna miss all the survival server parties", I don't think it would hurt anything. If anything it would be more helpful for people like me who aren't ever on IRC.


I agree with this. I think the reason that the drama started was mainly down to the parties involved, rather than the actual leaving thread itself. Like you said, if it was a person who is well respected who announced they were leaving, I think that the person would get a generally good send off.

Soul's post was probably long since it explained that the tourney's he was hosting and the clan he was leading were also ceasing to exist, which is understandable.

User avatar
ibm5155
Addicted to Zandronum
Posts: 1620
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:32 pm
Location: Somewhere, over the rainbow
Contact:

RE: The goodbye threads

#10

Post by ibm5155 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:14 pm

I still don't get that kind of thread, I just think it's like "hey guys, I'm gonna jump from this build, feed me or I'll jump"
Projects
Cursed Maze: DONE, V2.0
Zombie Horde - ZM09 map update: [3/15/13]
Need help with English? Then you've come to the right place!

<this post is proof of "Decline">

User avatar
Ten
Contributor
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:29 am
Location: Nocru illa dan
Clan: Lost Faction
Clan Tag: LF

RE: The goodbye threads

#11

Post by Ten » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:20 pm

mifu wrote:
Arctangent wrote:Well, forbid anyone have any emotional attachments whatsoever to a community, I guess.


Not our intention at all.

You see every time so far, someone announces they are leaving, the thread ends up being shat on. It becomes derailed and a flame war erupts.

It ends up becoming a thread that the staff need to split or lock.


The inherit problem is not the creation of these kinds of threads themselves. The problem is the lack of strict moderation on the trolls that enter these threads and cause the shitstorms to start in the first place. If anyone's noticed in almost every case, it's only a very small percentage of people in the threads who start these moronic flame wars. Contrary to popular belief due to a particular set of users, not everyone here is a hostile moron who has nothing better to do than make fun of people. If these trolls were simply moderated promptly after shitposting, there wouldn't be such an issue and trashing entire threads wouldn't have to be the only option.

There needs to be harsher punishments on trolls and shitposts to curb this type of behavior. Simply disallowing specific types of forum content because it's easily troll-able is not a good solution IMO.

EDIT: And to be clear here, I'm not talking about just goodbye threads. I mean to refer to any kind of shitposting that is clearly over the line, such as making disturbing jokes about a father beating his kid or telling someone that they're a useless piece of shit. That type of behavior should not be tolerated on the forums, bottom line. What kind of message are we sending to new members of the community who come onto our forums and see such terrible behavior being allowed to fly?
Last edited by Ten on Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[22:42:21] [@SkullRush] ok guys today was one of the worst days of my life i spent p much 18 hours in my pc watching hentai and played doom with huge lag i guess i shiould go to bed now
[22:42:26] [@SkullRush] if i dont suicide, see you guys tomorrow
[22:42:29] [@SkullRush] bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb^_^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[22:43:02] • Quit: (SkullRush) (~SkullRush@SkullRush.users.zandronum.com) ("Quitting")
[22:43:40] [+Jenova] wow
[22:43:47] [+Jenova] ur avg zandronum player ladies and gentlemen

User avatar
one_Two
Addicted to Zandronum
Posts: 1753
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:47 pm

RE: The goodbye threads

#12

Post by one_Two » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:36 pm

Banning drama, the best thing about doom. shame.

Decay wrote:I got banned for a year because Metal got mad over a misinterpretation of a simple comment.


classic metal
Last edited by one_Two on Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ru5tK1ng
Posts a lot
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:04 pm

RE: The goodbye threads

#13

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:02 pm

If only you all had been there for the goodbye thread drama back in ZD :lol:


I don't think goodbye threads are bad as long as it's a quick summary and not a drawn out essay. Saying good bye because you are leaving for college or moving for a new job and leaving means of contact in a paragraph or two is perfectly fine. Often times the ones who write epics as they bid farewell actually DO NOT leave or stay gone for long. :rolleyes:

In hindsight, Soul probably could have handled the posting by splitting it into a tendency post and one in his clan thread. But, we can't undo the past so we just have to learn from it.

People who are actually leaving for good or for a very long time should be able to say good bye to everyone. As long as they aren't pulling a Quit-chu and doing it for attention. :cry:
Last edited by Ru5tK1ng on Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Projects

EonDM - With Hatred as my sidekick.
RageCTF - Made 1 map and did much more.
DBAB LMS - Pack made for Last Man Standing.
EonWeapons - Improve vanilla weapons and add stuff for kicks.
Progressive Duel - Leaving the old behind.
IDL201X CTF - Maintaining since 2013.
Strife AA - Helped tested + 1 map

User avatar
Samurai
Frequent Poster Miles card holder
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:17 am
Location: England
Clan: Incredible
Clan Tag: [I]

RE: The goodbye threads

#14

Post by Samurai » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:54 pm

I think I made a goodbye thread in ZD once and I was Kilgore'd for 6 months :lol:

User avatar
Ten
Contributor
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:29 am
Location: Nocru illa dan
Clan: Lost Faction
Clan Tag: LF

RE: The goodbye threads

#15

Post by Ten » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:57 pm

Ru5tK1ng wrote:If only you all had been there for the goodbye thread drama back in ZD :lol:


I don't think goodbye threads are bad as long as it's a quick summary and not a drawn out essay. Saying good bye because you are leaving for college or moving for a new job and leaving means of contact in a paragraph or two is perfectly fine. Often times the ones who write epics as they bid farewell actually DO NOT leave or stay gone for long. :rolleyes:

In hindsight, Soul probably could have handled the posting by splitting it into a tendency post and one in his clan thread. But, we can't undo the past so we just have to learn from it.

People who are actually leaving for good or for a very long time should be able to say good bye to everyone. As long as they aren't pulling a Quit-chu and doing it for attention. :cry:


Despite you making an obvious jab at me (and you're not wrong about it, even though it is ancient history), I'd have to agree with you to an extent on this particular stance now that I really consider it. There are specific places that ordinary players should keep goodbye posts; namely in clan threads, IRC topics and the like. The main forums should not be a place to host blogs about personal matters. Another point that Rust is right about, is that 95% of the time these players come back anyway so their original goodbye threads were just a waste of time. Honestly, the only people who should have justified reason to make goodbye threads for the entire community to see are senior members of the administration who are announcing that they're stepping down from their positions.

Ru5tK1ng wrote:But, we can't undo the past so we just have to learn from it.


This is a philosophy that I've embraced myself over the past couple years, and I'm really glad there are other reasonable people here who are doing the same. Shows hope for the community.
Last edited by Ten on Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[22:42:21] [@SkullRush] ok guys today was one of the worst days of my life i spent p much 18 hours in my pc watching hentai and played doom with huge lag i guess i shiould go to bed now
[22:42:26] [@SkullRush] if i dont suicide, see you guys tomorrow
[22:42:29] [@SkullRush] bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb^_^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[22:43:02] • Quit: (SkullRush) (~SkullRush@SkullRush.users.zandronum.com) ("Quitting")
[22:43:40] [+Jenova] wow
[22:43:47] [+Jenova] ur avg zandronum player ladies and gentlemen

User avatar
Hammerfest-
Forum Regular
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:45 am
Clan: A3.33333333333333333
Clan Tag: A3.33333333

RE: The goodbye threads

#16

Post by Hammerfest- » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:09 am

Ten wrote:
mifu wrote:
Arctangent wrote:Well, forbid anyone have any emotional attachments whatsoever to a community, I guess.


Not our intention at all.

You see every time so far, someone announces they are leaving, the thread ends up being shat on. It becomes derailed and a flame war erupts.

It ends up becoming a thread that the staff need to split or lock.


The inherit problem is not the creation of these kinds of threads themselves. The problem is the lack of strict moderation on the trolls that enter these threads and cause the shitstorms to start in the first place. If anyone's noticed in almost every case, it's only a very small percentage of people in the threads who start these moronic flame wars. Contrary to popular belief due to a particular set of users, not everyone here is a hostile moron who has nothing better to do than make fun of people. If these trolls were simply moderated promptly after shitposting, there wouldn't be such an issue and trashing entire threads wouldn't have to be the only option.

There needs to be harsher punishments on trolls and shitposts to curb this type of behavior. Simply disallowing specific types of forum content because it's easily troll-able is not a good solution IMO.

EDIT: And to be clear here, I'm not talking about just goodbye threads. I mean to refer to any kind of shitposting that is clearly over the line, such as making disturbing jokes about a father beating his kid or telling someone that they're a useless piece of shit. That type of behavior should not be tolerated on the forums, bottom line. What kind of message are we sending to new members of the community who come onto our forums and see such terrible behavior being allowed to fly?


'Trolls pointing out trolls' I suppose.

And let's not forget that as it is obvious, one of the reasons why these threads are unwelcoming is because whenever someone wrote from 'hey I'm leaving' to 'I'm leaving because...' followed by paragraphs or writing, they always tend to just be pure bullshit and people end up coming back eventually. Why not just PM certain people you want to keep in touch with with some sort of info on how they can get ahold of you and just leave it at that? Why does the entire community need to be informed of you (not you, I say this generally) are leaving? Do people seriously need the 'good byes' and 'farewells?'
Swift as a breeze, fierce as a gale.

User avatar
Zakken
Forum Regular
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:32 am
Location: House Ylisse

RE: The goodbye threads

#17

Post by Zakken » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:00 am

Goodbye threads are "bad" because trolls (read: the same recurring 3-4 people, because everyone else who replied to the thread was cool with it) have developed a nasty habit of stirring drama out of every single one of them, and imposing their own unspoken rules upon the forums by doing so. By straight out prohibiting threads of that nature, you're pretty much giving in to their will. Allow me to ask, what if those same drama-hungry people hypothetically decided to flame the crap out of threads of a different nature, would you feel that it'd be the best course of action to just prohibit threads like that too? I personally don't think so, because that's an indirect, but still very real kind of censorship. This decision of yours is basically conveying the message that, if trolls try hard enough to derail and flame every thread whose subject they don't like, they can ultimately get the administration team to eliminate every other thread for them while, worst of all, they get away with it unscathed! I do believe this is a very unfair treatment that will and has turned people away from using the forums to attempt to convey information in a less hostile environment. I don't think authors of such threads should be held accountable of it, unless such threads are really obvious trolls or made in a very evident trollbait way (by insulting people or being very outrageous about the whole thing, but those should be easy enough to spot, right?), which my own thread in particular really wasn't.

While I do agree that it could've done me better to withhold some information in my thread, I genuinely doubt it would've made a difference for the instigators anyway. They would've found another way to degrade it to the point of being thrown into the trash anyway. Hell, they pretty much succeeded just by shouting "this kind of thread is bad, you should know that by now and you still did it!" consistently, without pointing out any actual faults in my post, but only attacking the nature of it. Yes, I do know about how goodbye threads are "bad", which is why I explicitly stated in the OP that I had no intentions of instigating any drama whatsoever. So, why did some people instigate shit anyway? Because they simply don't care. Because why bother being civil about it when you can just get hostile, flame the thread and screw over the guy who tried to do something that did not offend anyone in any particular way? I echo others' sentiment that you're giving too much power to the instigators. I hope not to sound too self-entitled when I say I want to see more just action being taken.
* Determination.

User avatar
Hammerfest-
Forum Regular
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:45 am
Clan: A3.33333333333333333
Clan Tag: A3.33333333

RE: The goodbye threads

#18

Post by Hammerfest- » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:41 am

I thought you left Soul?

Soul wrote:Goodbye threads are "bad" because trolls (read: the same recurring 3-4 people, because everyone else who replied to the thread was cool with it) have developed a nasty habit of stirring drama out of every single one of them, and imposing their own unspoken rules upon the forums by doing so. By straight out prohibiting threads of that nature, you're pretty much giving in to their will. Allow me to ask, what if those same drama-hungry people hypothetically decided to flame the crap out of threads of a different nature, would you feel that it'd be the best course of action to just prohibit threads like that too? I personally don't think so, because that's an indirect, but still very real kind of censorship. This decision of yours is basically conveying the message that, if trolls try hard enough to derail and flame every thread whose subject they don't like, they can ultimately get the administration team to eliminate every other thread for them while, worst of all, they get away with it unscathed! I do believe this is a very unfair treatment that will and has turned people away from using the forums to attempt to convey information in a less hostile environment. I don't think authors of such threads should be held accountable of it, unless such threads are really obvious trolls or made in a very evident trollbait way (by insulting people or being very outrageous about the whole thing, but those should be easy enough to spot, right?), which my own thread in particular really wasn't.


What's the point of a thread where people need to let everyone know they're leaving? As previously stated, I'm pretty sure you could just PM the people who you want to keep in touch with and keep it simple. The only reason why I'd probably let a 'Goodbye' thread slide is if it were about an administrator/moderator stepping down due to whatever reason and have some actual tenure as a staff member of the whole community. Both you and I know very well that goodbye threads are a way of trying to create last minute attention, especially when both you and I know that most goodbye threads from people like us will get someone buttblasted in some way. To say that 'goodbye' threads are just a way for certain people to troll without any means or repercussions or consequences is just silly, because ultimately someone's gonna take a bite on it and tell someone off. Let's be real here too, let's go back to my previous statement of 'people come back anyways' and tell me that most of the time people don't come back. The silly joke of 'nobody leaves Doom' is real. If you want an example not similar to these 'goodbye' threads, look at the previous threads about 'XYZ is in the hospital' or something just as unnecessary (even when it was found out that it was trolling in itself.)

Soul wrote:While I do agree that it could've done me better to withhold some information in my thread, I genuinely doubt it would've made a difference for the instigators anyway.


That's really questionable Soul. We can't use 'what ifs' to try to defend this.

Soul wrote:They would've found another way to degrade it to the point of being thrown into the trash anyway. Hell, they pretty much succeeded just by shouting "this kind of thread is bad, you should know that by now and you still did it!" consistently, without pointing out any actual faults in my post, but only attacking the nature of it.


But they did, a lot of people thread did actually and so have you. You went on a rant about something that has been previously discussed to death. You're beating a dead horse, man.


Soul wrote:Yes, I do know about how goodbye threads are "bad", which is why I explicitly stated in the OP that I had no intentions of instigating any drama whatsoever.


If you knew it was bad why did you bother anyways then. Look at it this way, I disappeared for a while but I didn't go out of my way to write 'I'm leaving' and etc. I didn't find it necessary to do anything of the sort, and just kept in contact with people who wanted to keep in contact with me. Simple as that.

Soul wrote:So, why did some people instigate shit anyway? Because they simply don't care. Because why bother being civil about it when you can just get hostile, flame the thread and screw over the guy who tried to do something that did not offend anyone in any particular way? I echo others' sentiment that you're giving too much power to the instigators. I hope not to sound too self-entitled when I say I want to see more just action being taken.


Because it sounds like you are fishing for attention. That's about as blunt as I can be. I have nothing against you man but you and I both know the history with these threads.
Swift as a breeze, fierce as a gale.

User avatar
mifu
Lead Administrator
Posts: 1023
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:34 am
Location: Aussie Land
Clan: Demon RiderZ

RE: The goodbye threads

#19

Post by mifu » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:57 am

Due to various points raised in this thread and also the fact my inbox blew up, this rule is no longer in affect.

Though we are probably going to become more strict on the moderation as the feedback we have seen.
Disregard this thing.
Image

Locked