Idea to potentially boost competitive activity and motivate newbies

[Razgriz]

I don't think there is enough interest for people to pull their own money into a pool to potentially win a lot more, especially if they believe they don't have a good chance at winning (like a new player). If anyone is going to do a tournament for money, the money would have to come from the host's own pocket, because then it becomes free money to potentially win and it gathers interest. People have to genuinely believe that they can win in order to get them to pull in money from their own pocket into a tournament. We know most new players wont have that kind of faith in themselves and not many people will pour their money into a tournament they can't have a chance at trying.

[Qent]

I thought it was pretty clear from the first post that the money will not come from the players, and will be donated by a small number of benefactors who wish to fund the competition out of their own pockets.

I still don't think it would incentivize newbies very much. It wouldn't incentivize me, anyway.

[Ænima]

I don't think there is enough interest for people to pull their own money into a pool to potentially win a lot more, especially if they believe they don't have a good chance at winning (like a new player). If anyone is going to do a tournament for money, the money would have to come from the host's own pocket, because then it becomes free money to potentially win and it gathers interest.

If you read the first post, I said that the money would come from community benefactors (ie members of the community who have a few bucks to spare), NOT the players themselves.


Also, why do you always post in big purple text? :|

[Nati46]

Dunno really
As some people have said, not too many people are willing/able to hand in money for something like this (since I dont think that the top 20 duelists are of equal skill), hell they might not even want to risk being scammed (Even though it is less likely when it's done by a known member, but hey I'm sure that many would sacrifice being banned for 200$)
Also when you add the monetary factor, those who put their money would want to get the most chances of winning, i.e those who pay would want to have their own best conditions and this may create controversy and it would be a problem to please everyone.
This also opens an opportunity for cheating (and believe me, when I say that there are people who can be rather hard to detect, there are also other creative ways of providing unfair advantages besides aimbotting/wallhacking), or alternatively, unreasonably long matches which turn into camp wars (unless you can choose maps where camping does not give such a big advantage, such as Judas or GW20, there are a few others)
This would especially not be feasible among newer players - they haven't been here long to establish and thus definitely are not going to just give away their money, and as mentioned, people could just go as far as change their IPs to alias as alleged "newbies" and control their games so that it doesnt become obvious that they are imposters.
I personally think that money rewards in general aren't really feasible in an online environment, consequentialy most tournaments of such kind are done in LANs in order to make it as fair as possible, and are also organised by well established groups who provide the money themeselves (minus signup fees which are usually hardly a fraction of the prize and definitely do not constitute all of it by themselves)

However, in order to encourage competitive duelling (And promoting the ZDC and other tourneys), the forum/site managers could publish a type of "rating" of top players in different tourneys so that it is visible to all - somewhere along the homepage or forum main page.this would encourage players to compete so that someday they may become "famous" :)

edit: After seeing Qent's mention, you can ignore the first paragraph, But then again, it might not be very easy to find people willing to contribute, I don't know
And all other arguments still stand and are pretty significant still.

[Samurai]

It's a nice idea, but I have better things to do with my money instead of donating it to [R] players

[Razgriz]

I don't think there is enough interest for people to pull their own money into a pool to potentially win a lot more, especially if they believe they don't have a good chance at winning (like a new player). If anyone is going to do a tournament for money, the money would have to come from the host's own pocket, because then it becomes free money to potentially win and it gathers interest.

If you read the first post, I said that the money would come from community benefactors (ie members of the community who have a few bucks to spare), NOT the players themselves.


Also, why do you always post in big purple text? :|

Sorry I imagined that most people part of the community are considered players by default, whether competitive or casual or behind the scenes (because even most behind the scene people still play). But for the sake of the idea, who do we have that will help fund?

[Nati46]

This also opens an opportunity for cheating (and believe me, when I say that there are people who can be rather hard to detect, there are also other creative ways of providing unfair advantages besides aimbotting/wallhacking),

Believe him, because he has been getting away with wallhacking for years.

[Ænima]

I don't think there is enough interest for people to pull their own money into a pool to potentially win a lot more, especially if they believe they don't have a good chance at winning (like a new player). If anyone is going to do a tournament for money, the money would have to come from the host's own pocket, because then it becomes free money to potentially win and it gathers interest.

If you read the first post, I said that the money would come from community benefactors (ie members of the community who have a few bucks to spare), NOT the players themselves.


Also, why do you always post in big purple text? :|

Sorry I imagined that most people part of the community are considered players by default, whether competitive or casual or behind the scenes (because even most behind the scene people still play).

By "players", i meant people who are actually competing in the tournament.


Perhaps, if something like this ever went through (which it probably won't), there would be a rule that donors are not allowed to compete.

[Nati46]

I don't think there is enough interest for people to pull their own money into a pool to potentially win a lot more, especially if they believe they don't have a good chance at winning (like a new player). If anyone is going to do a tournament for money, the money would have to come from the host's own pocket, because then it becomes free money to potentially win and it gathers interest.

If you read the first post, I said that the money would come from community benefactors (ie members of the community who have a few bucks to spare), NOT the players themselves.


Also, why do you always post in big purple text? :|

Sorry I imagined that most people part of the community are considered players by default, whether competitive or casual or behind the scenes (because even most behind the scene people still play).

By "players", i meant people who are actually competing in the tournament.


Perhaps, if something like this ever went through (which it probably won't), there would be a rule that donors are not allowed to compete.

The problem is that, even if donors themselves cannot compete, the monetary factor will still have its consequences on players - as I mentioned before, cheating/"noobing" in order to win the prize (Depending on where you live it's usually not so difficult to change ip's, you can even go further and get another country's IP without even having to use any proxies if your ISP allows you to do so.)
When you put money into the equation there are bound to be such misdemeanors...
I think that what I mentioned would be a better idea, also much more feasible and not requiring too much effort.

[Prospekt]

God damn I like this idea.

And because I like it, I'll make it real simple for y'all: If someone would be willing to deal with the organizing of the tourney instead of myself, I'll pay up the bucks. I ain't got time to do it myself, but I'd be happy to be the benefactor. Maybe simply doing a copy-paste of the tourney Dragon, Legion and Nati has done before? With three divisions all can play, from less skilled players up to the top. The best thing with that is that you get to set your own skill set.

I think it would also be good to put some extra strain and pressure on this as well. The tourney gets a deadline and if players fails to do their game within proper timeframe - disqualified.

$35 to each winner in each division delivered thru Paypal. And no, you don't get to complain about the sum if you don't wanna show up with your own money and raise me.

So, I need someone who'd be willing to carry this out for me. Maybe two, three guys? PM me if you are interested.

I'd also want this to be a global tourney. All play all. No matter ping.



Also - cheating could be controlled by keeping this to the frequent and known players of this port. If anybody would, against all odds, get away with cheating and winning - the joke's on them imo.

[Strych6]

The maps should be created and tested in complete secrecy by a set of pro players (wont participate in tourny) so there is no home-field advantage.

edit: a cash tourny wont really help obtain new players.

[Ænima]

edit: a cash tourny wont really help obtain new players.

Yes, but that's not the intent. The intent isn't to obtain new players, but rather to motivate existing newbies to want to refine their skills and start playing competitively. If a little bribe is what it takes, then fine.

[StrikerMan780]

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[Medicris]

I so say, that is outstanding, constructive and informative content to post in this nine-day old thread! Good show! Bravo!

No but seriously, ontopic: from what I have observed, it would be fairly difficult to get people to take this game seriously. Personally, if this were to get off the ground, I would participate.

Would there be a certain join-date deadline for participants, and how would one root out vets pretending to be new people? Another odd case is, what about people who have been around for a long time, yet haven't dabbled in competitive play (me, I've been around on-and-off since 96f but still bad at videogames)?

It sounds fun, but I'm not sure how we handle who's eligible or not.

Oh, and to those who say "I can't spend 10$", you pay more for your fuggin internet bill and your daily McDon's than that. Put down the burger and do it if you care remotely for any future for CTF in the near future. I'd donate.

[StrikerMan780]

Holy fuckballs, seems someone's humor radar is broken. No harm was intended, I just figured it would get a chuckle out of someone, as it's relevant, since we're talking about money here. Even if it's 9 days old, I've seen longer time gaps in what are considered "active" discussions.

On the subject of the competition using money... I don't know if it would really draw people in. Even if it does, can we count on everyone being sportsmanlike enough for such a thing to go smoothly? The whole reason I stopped taking part in the competitive scene in Skulltag/Zandronum, is because almost everyone I've played with has acted like a total douche in one way or another. That, and my degrading cognitive/motor function due to something else entirely, which I won't go into detail about.

And by competitively, I mean serious tourneys/scrims, clan wars, etc. I'm always up for some straight-up deathmatch for some fun(which there isn't enough of out there! More DM Please.), but if there's something at stake, be it e-peen or anything of the sort, count me out... because nobody that I know of can keep civil in that situation, which leads to me getting pissed off, which doesn't help things at all.

Lastly, some people, such as myself wouldn't be able to pitch in even if I wanted to. I get $790 a month, $780 goes to rent. That leaves $10 of my own money to spare for food each month. (I'm living off Mr. Noodles/Ramen) I just happen to get a lucky break as I have two sides of my family lending a hand for the internet/phone bill. Once I get a job in this cesspit of a town(If it's even possible in today's world), perhaps things would change.

[Ænima]

Lastly, some people, such as myself wouldn't be able to pitch in even if I wanted to. I get $790 a month, $780 goes to rent. That leaves $10 of my own money to spare for food each month. (I'm living off Mr. Noodles/Ramen) I just happen to get a lucky break as I have two sides of my family lending a hand for the internet/phone bill.

That sucks, bro. I pay about the same amount as you in rent (but I make ~$1700 a month with the hours i've been putting in lately so i have a little more cushion), but I still have to shell out a large sum for rent and living expenses/food so yeah I'm almost in the same boat as you. But this thread isn't really a place to give a breakdown of why you can't donate, rather a simple show of hands of people who think that they can donate. Exact financial details aren't necessary.

Once I get a job in this cesspit of a town(If it's even possible in today's world), perhaps things would change.

It's possible, you just gotta keep tryin'. I'm not sure what the situation is like up there in Canada, but it's probably about the same (if not a little better) than the US. Just do like, 1 online job application a day. Takes maybe 10 to 20 minutes of your time.

[/offtopic advicedog]

[Tomthetom]

I think this is a good idea. But what I think would be better is a tournament or a bunch of duels. and the one who wins all of the duels or through the tournament will be the "big winner", and this said person will win the pot.

[HexaDoken]

I don't think it's a good idea.

By placing an actual money prize on the table we can basically guarantee that there won't be fairplay. If anything involves a bunch of money and doesn't involve very good security(and that's the exact case), things get messy.

Also an issue for determining "beginners". For example, me. I've been around since the beginning of the world, but I play competetive once in about forever, and naturally, my skill is not terribly high. That kinda both qualifies and doesn't qualify as "beginner", depending on what your personal definition of the word is.

As one can guess, I'm not into competetive, and thus I dunno how does the scene work and whatnot and stuff. But if this works, I'll be surprised. Very, very surprised.

[Samurai]

I don't think cash prizes should be in place to motivate players. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I wouldn't like to see my hard earnt money being paid into a paypal account of some overweight kid who lives in their parents basement because he/she is better at playing a video game than I am. At the end of the day we play doom because it's nostaligic, easy to get used to, and for the most part enjoyable.

Some of us have being playing this game since the 90's because of the aforementioned reasons ... people didn't need money to play back then, so I doubt we need it as a motivation now.

[Luke]

Well... I don't play much competitive mode. I don't even play doom much anymore, but even if I did, a prize won't motivate me playing competitive more; it won't make me more interested in a duel tournament since expert duelers are very good hence I'd need weeks of preparation.
It won't make me more interested in a CTF because I'd need a good team and since I'm not known and my CTF skill too, I'd probably end up in a noob team.
It would motivate me if it was a FFA competition, but FFA mode relies a lot on the luck, so the kid living in the parents' underground could win easily with a good amount of luck.

All in all: no. The idea is very nice Aenima, but I don't think that this will motivate many newbies.

Still that I'm myself and I might be 101% wrong.