Zandronum

So if you ignored this thread I suggest looking into it

https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=8884

Let's ignore the petulant fighting, crying, and unsubstantiated claims for a minute and look at the bigger picture. This is one of those "meta" threads which I believe belongs in this section. It relates to competition as it effects server side/client settings and determines how a game is played.. even marginally.

The issue is incredibly simple: Does global sound pick ups truly effect the game, and in particular Capture The Flag as a defender? The argument is that a defender can hear all global sounds and allows them a level of omniscience where positioning of players is alerted to them. The defender can then use sound cues notifying him of an upcoming runner which would allow him to properly position himself in the case of an ambush (pick a corner and shoot or just fire down the hall he thinks they are running from). My question is if all sounds are global how would the defender differentiate between players? What if it's local? Then wouldn't it be fair for the defender to HEAR nearby activity? What if that activity was his own teammates?

Feel free to discuss the application of sound in game and why it's important to keep or leave it in future tournament events (if any)

Boring change that isn't going to do jackshit to the overall game. Smh people try to find any little tiny detail to explain their lack of skill

Galactus wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:16 pm

Boring change that isn't going to do jackshit to the overall game. Smh people try to find any little tiny detail to explain their lack of skill

g a l a c t u s . s e e s . t h e . l i g h t

Affect the game? Yes. Big changer? Not really. Most of the maps played in ctf weren't designed with sound as a gameplay element aside from maybe something like smartctf.

It could be an interesting element but that means making several new ctf maps and no one is going to do that in 2018.

I always viewed the global pickup sounds as a risk of the runner, but was also fair. As the defender, under circumstances you can't or shouldn't leave the base and are limited to what's placed inside of the base and maybe the outskirts, while the runner has access to their own base and what ever powerups or items at mid or adjacent pathways between bases. Admittedly I used it frequently on certain maps where sound cues other than player grunts would be beneficial, it helps, and it's useful but not on the same level as other features offered by Zandro native or OGL.

At a priv level of gameplay, it might in maps where the defence doesn't always have a good vision of what's happening (e.g. MAP17), but at a higher-level league gameplay where everybody in a given team is coordinated enough with each other to the point where nothing slips by them, then not really. It's minor enough that it barely warrants one thread, let alone two.

I made one because the other ended in childish behavior. You had one camp who was is so far removed from the game he can't handle what it is coming back(Legion) and another group that comes off so antagonistic that even if they are right no one wants to give them the satisfaction(A3 entirely). So I decided to make a neutral thread where we can really hammer it to see whether or not it's worth mentioning. Looks like anyone truly vocal about it thinks it's stupid and thus I suppose Megaman hasn't rotted our brains.

Throwing Legion under aside, I don't see any reason for the change.
https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 84#p110522

So explain to me why you would abide by it then Zakken?

Mobius wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:54 pm

I made one because the other ended in childish behavior. You had one camp who was is so far removed from the game he can't handle what it is coming back(Legion)

hello, we've met haven't we? I've played this game for YEARS, took a break for a little while, then came back. I started noticing this issue becoming more and more of a nuisance because of how I have been approaching doom as of late. I focused ALL of my attention in odamex and, after playing and reacquainting myself with doom after my break, I came back to zandronum. I have a history of questioning small things that may seem a non-issue but could perhaps have further ramifications than originally thought.

i knew this was an issue for awhile, but I think its time to at least test it out and see if there is significant impact.

Mobius wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:54 pm

Throwing Legion under aside, I don't see any reason for the change.
https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 84#p110522

So explain to me why you would abide by it then Zakken?

I just want the consistency that should have been present from the beginning. everyone wanted the settings that were the standard in the major relevant competitive leagues one day but this one somehow slipped under the radar.

I also believe it gives players advantages that they both dont need and never should have had.

Combinebobnt wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:58 pm

*snip*

well memed, but i thought this was supposed to be serious discussion.

Overall, there probably won't be any significant impact because at most there will be about a quarter of the total maps that have items positioned in such a way that hinders stealth for runners.

Stealth running is a meme in most popular maps anyway except like 17 and even then.

As a part-time defender I can say for certain that I personally never really rely on sounds in general with the exception of map06 (smartctf) on hearing for runners picking up the armor bonuses. Even then it's not absolutely critical for me since after they've been picked up there is a 30 second timer on them respawning so most of my "defense" is reliant heavily on simple guess work and praying I can catch a runner before I'm ousted. Really it's more a matter of learning patterns of individual offense players and predicting their moves rather than listen for item cues. After all the enemy isn't the only one picking up items so why waste my time chasing ghosts if it was my teammate that was making all that noise?

Personally I just want to avoid a world of "either get on discord and use voice chat or become permanently benched" if this doesn't stop at just global item pickups...

Good point. The items aren't even there most of the time. Thinking about it more I wonder how terrain sound would work as a sound cue. It could be more effective than pick up sounds.

Ru5tK1ng wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:59 pm

Good point. The items aren't even there most of the time. Thinking about it more I wonder how terrain sound would work as a sound cue. It could be more effective than pick up sounds.

The landing sound and use sound of players are more than enough cue on most maps, a notable example is 04.