ZTDM - 2v2 TeamDeathmatch Tournament Begins!

Plan tournaments and matches, and initiate challenges here. Prove your inner internet tough guy.
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Re: ZTDM - 2v2 TeamDeathmatch Tournament Begins!


Post by Razgriz » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:53 pm

Zakken wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:28 am
My only suggestion is that it'd help the competitive integrity of the games to tone down on the size of the maplist. I think any maplist that goes above 6 maps encourages teams to practise the most obscure ones of the bunch to cheese teams out for not knowing those particular maps inside and out. At least with a maximum of 6 maps, teams would have sufficient time to practise all maps at a reasonable level, leading to more exciting, high-level, close games.

Amazing job running this league though, Raz and Decay. I look forward to your next endeavours!
To a point i agree, however I look at it more at the angle of "how much do you want to win". Jason and i practiced all the maps consecutively except the brit one because even i figured nobody was going to pick it. We would still prac on it from time to time, but i think It's not hard to learn and practice ten maps, but i would say an alternative number is 8. With 8 you can still get the bulk of games on maps that are popular favorites and still have room for personal favorites that don't get picked often. Though i still see 10 as the absolute max that should be ran now, 8-10 would allow for a bit of variety.

Alternatively when i get around to looking at what maps were picked the most often and why, it'll help mold the maplist for the next season, which preferably will be on an also updated pack.

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Re: ZTDM - 2v2 TeamDeathmatch Tournament Begins!


Post by Theshooter7 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:48 am

You guys should put together some highlight reels of Div 1 and 2 games. I think that'd be a nice wrap up to the tournament!

Anyway, as far as feedback goes, I had already mentioned before that some of the purely slugfest or aim maps should perhaps be avoided. Maps like UDM3M7 and D5M7, while great maps, are very aim heavy and employ little as far as teamplay or strategy goes (and I'm sure people will forever argue with me on this and that's fine, this is just my opinion and like I said they still are not bad maps). I think I have to agree with Zakken that the map pool should be a little bit smaller, but not by much really. I think what might have really helped with map selection is just having the tournament wad have only the tournament maps in it. I know it certainly took people in div2 a while to get the whole maplist down and really understand what maps to practice on. I suppose that's more of a quality of life thing, but it might also reduce the initial intimidation of picking a map.

In the future I do think just straight up doing a single group for the division is best. Games got going much faster and more frequently once div2's groups were combined into one and people could play against whoever. Then the people trying to get their games done and play some Doom are not held back by others who are not quite as committed. It was definitely a good move when it was done, and I think it should be applied again in the future.

And I'll also reshare this bit of feedback from before but: the rules for jumping/no jumping should be consistent across the map pack. Either have it or don't, I feel like there really should not be an inbetween where some maps have jumping and some don't.

All things aside though, I feel like the tournament was handled quite well, with management pushing for games to get done and channel activity being constant. It was handled very well and active participation from Decay and Raz kept things on track as best as possible. I am looking forward to the next tournament soon, and hopefully with glorious netcode fixes to make games even more enjoyable. Cheers!

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Re: ZTDM - 2v2 TeamDeathmatch Tournament Begins!


Post by Razgriz » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:22 am

Few things while I'm still awake.

RE: Slugfest maps

I think what's most optimal here is trying to reduce the amount of slugfest maps present in the tournament. 6 maps total feels too small, so next time I may just run 8 maps, the middle ground.

RE: Single groups

Yes I agree, it occurred to Decay and I that grouping both div 1and both div2 would've been better for each respective div, it proved to work in div 2 but it was far too late to make any changes to both div1s, it also didn't help at the time many of the teams were already finished with their matches or close to it.

RE: Tournament wad

The idea of making just a tournament wad against the pack is counter-productive, as it means each time I run a tournament, I have to make a new wad each and every single time. The idea of the pack, or all packs in general, is for them to be a compilation of maps for either general or tournament play. Why would I make this pack which is geared towards tournament play, then make it AGAIN for a tournament I run soon? The logic makes little sense, and at the same time, I posted the maplist on the forums, Decay had it on discord, and I would paste it in the MOTD of the main TSPG server. If there is some struggle to find out what maps are in the tournament, it's not my problem. We did everything to make the list accessible in more than one form, and I didn't want to create a maplist inside the server because there were instances where people wanted to play non-tournament maps for practice or warming up, which is perfectly fine for me. It's not like the hub was completely out of wack, there were signs letting you know what was inside the tele room before you entered it, so it just doesn't seem practical to me.

RE: Jumping

Jumping is disabled on maps that were not made for it, while it is enabled for maps that were made with it in mind. In terms of the pack, only the DBAB maps had jumping. The lack of knowledge about this comes from the fact that I never properly announced it, and it was only documented on my side before version 1H/I. This will be a constant ongoing thing, considering there is no reason to restrict maps that were made for jumping, and the same goes for allowing jump on maps that weren't meant for jumping. Since soon we will see an influx of new school maps that have jumping, it only makes more sense just to keep it as is, especially if we see new content where jumping was in mind.

I appreciate the feedback though, it lets me know what players were thinking and it allows me to clarify why and how. Sometimes you just need a bit flexibility, but some of it is due to me not properly announcing things about the pack. Next tournament will come after I get the next version up, which I plan on working up a maplist of things to add into the pack through this week. I already have a small list of things I need to do outside of adding maps so this time around there should be more maps in the pack in general, and new maps in the tournament, everyone wins!

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