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VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:29 pm
by Blitzkrieg
Hey guys! We're here again to announce the start of our next guide in the series. Here we will be expanding from looking at the defense role to encompassing the entirety of the positions that one will play on a given map.
I know I said this would be weekly but ... I have a really heavy workload and we haven't organized this well! Spring break weekend will be coming up so I've decided to make this bi-monthly! This gives us time to prepare and refine our materials to produce a better (not purple) format for our guides!
We need you all to decide what they should look like! If you don't want to see a recolored Frankenstein of the previous guide, help us figure out how these should look!
The focus of this guide will be an all encompassing summary of how to play from the Offensive, Middle, and Defensive standpoints respectively. It will, of course, include various visual aids and probably as a result will focus on main / alternate strategies of succeeding in your given role. This will probably be a guide that will be alt-tab friendly as well, so if you get handed a map you don't know, feel free to tab and skim while your team yells at you for being AFK during the map vote!
Suggestions? Opinions? Please leave them here. I will post the guide underneath when it's ready! Deadline for helping, if you're interested, is Saturday of next weekend (March 12th), so if you are so inclined, please drop by #VGL and see us.
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RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:34 pm
by Moti
Memes aside, this should come in handy, as I suck at Map13.
Looking forward to reading the guide.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:53 am
by Samurai
Don't mean to sound like a dick, really, I don't.... but isn't it better to leave making guides up to well... better players? I just saw VGL play 3 vs 2 against another clan in CTF and still lost, How can a clan of VGL's quality help people play CTF?
If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
Again, no offence intended.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:54 am
by Mobius
Samurai wrote:
Don't mean to sound like a dick, really, I don't.... but isn't it better to leave making guides up to well... better players? I just saw VGL play 3 vs 2 against another clan in CTF and still lost, How can a clan of VGL's quality help people play CTF?l
S A V A G E D
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:49 am
by ZZYZX
Samurai wrote:If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
Congratulations on not being in target auditory of the guide. There are people who are though.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:04 am
by Samurai
ZZYZX wrote:
Samurai wrote:If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
Congratulations on not being in target auditory of the guide. There are people who are though.
Thing is, who is the target audience? New players? Really?
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:57 am
by Mobius
Samurai wrote:
ZZYZX wrote:
Samurai wrote:If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
Congratulations on not being in target auditory of the guide. There are people who are though.
Thing is, who is the target audience? New players? Really?
Don't worry we just spanked VGL and they didn't even wanna play MAP13. I guess they didn't finish the guide for it yet so they didn't have a strat ready.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:10 am
by ZZYZX
Samurai wrote:
ZZYZX wrote:
Samurai wrote:If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
Congratulations on not being in target auditory of the guide. There are people who are though.
Thing is, who is the target audience? New players? Really?
Uh, yes, really...
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:54 am
by Samurai
ZZYZX wrote:
Samurai wrote:
ZZYZX wrote:
Samurai wrote:If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
Congratulations on not being in target auditory of the guide. There are people who are though.
Thing is, who is the target audience? New players? Really?
Uh, yes, really...
How can you expect to teach players how to play maps ( in detail) that you can't even play yourselves? Has VGL ever even won a game on map13? If I was a new player, why would I want to read a guide from a clan that is notorious for losing every scrim they play?
Again I don't mean to be harsh, just my honest evaluation of this. I think these are all valid questions.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:13 am
by Ru5tK1ng
To be fair, it is possible to understand a map down to the details and still fail to execute strategy perfectly when game time comes. There were plenty of teams in the IDL that had a thorough understanding of each weekly map, but they were simply outplayed by better teams and lost.
could ignore the Megasphere in map16 against VGL and still win 5-0. However, if S did that against a clan like HN, S is going to get destroyed.
Just because VGL can't win map16 doesn't mean their strategy of controlling the MS is bad and should be dismissed. It just means VGL needs to read the guide.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:33 am
by Samurai
Ru5tK1ng wrote:
To be fair, it is possible to understand a map down to the details and still fail to execute strategy perfectly when game time comes. There were plenty of teams in the IDL that had a thorough understanding of each weekly map, but they were simply outplayed by better teams and lost.
could ignore the Megasphere in map16 against VGL and still win 5-0. However, if S did that against a clan like HN, S is going to get destroyed.
Just because VGL can't win map16 doesn't mean their strategy of controlling the MS is bad and should be dismissed. It just means VGL needs to read the guide.
I agree, but the players who were in the IDL were still vastly experienced players. I just feel that if you're making a guide, aswell as watching countless games, you kind of need the experience of playing and winning games on the said map itself too.
If you have some guide from Alienoverlord, and he is telling you how to play each position in a map, a guy that has next to 0 experience of winning scrims, then as a new player, why would you want to take advice from a player who has a constant losing record?
For example I've watched millions of map01 games over the years, from the highest to the lowest tier of players in action, so I would say my knowledge of the map is ok. In contrary though, I am a horrible player on map01, and wouldn't write up a guide on how to play each position effectively because I'm not very good at it myself.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:06 pm
by Mobius
Samurai wrote:
If you have some guide from Alienoverlord, and he is telling you how to play each position in a map, a guy that has next to 0 experience of winning scrims, then as a new player, why would you want to take advice from a player who has a constant losing record?
The real concern is that new players wouldn't know that vital piece of information off the bat because he's in a clan playing in priv servers. This is doubly true for Blitzkrieg and he's making guides. This is just the Kirbonium effect working as usual.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:55 pm
by Blitzkrieg
Valid points all, gentlemen. That's why we are asking for your help! We already have some people who will be auditing our work to ensure that it's quality is an improvement over the previous iteration, and that means both in content and presentation.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:16 pm
by Mobius
Why would any sane person help their competitors?
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:20 pm
by ConTheFal
Mobius wrote:
Why would any sane person help their competitors?
To keep competitive scene alive?
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:58 pm
by The Toxic Avenger
They can't really play 14 either :>
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:04 pm
by ZZYZX
Samurai wrote:Again I don't mean to be harsh, just my honest evaluation of this. I think these are all valid questions.
No idea, I personally wouldn't do a 13 guide, but then again we have other associated people who can contribute :P
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:07 pm
by Mobius
ConTheFal wrote:
Mobius wrote:
Why would any sane person help their competitors?
To keep competitive scene alive?
How do you keep the competitive scene alive with these tutorials exactly?
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:04 pm
by Ru5tK1ng
Mobius wrote:
ConTheFal wrote:
Mobius wrote:
Why would any sane person help their competitors?
To keep competitive scene alive?
How do you keep the competitive scene alive with these tutorials exactly?
Helping your competitors doesn't keep the scene alive, it just makes you easier to beat. You don't see Coaches in professional sports giving away game plans and plays.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:17 pm
by Slyfox
Ru5tK1ng wrote:
Mobius wrote:
ConTheFal wrote:
Mobius wrote:
Why would any sane person help their competitors?
To keep competitive scene alive?
How do you keep the competitive scene alive with these tutorials exactly?
Helping your competitors doesn't keep the scene alive, it just makes you easier to beat. You don't see Coaches in professional sports giving away game plans and plays.
Unless of course, they're retiring, and feel that their success is impactful enough to release a guide for newer players... which uhhh, I don't know if that is true for this clan