VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
- Blitzkrieg
- Banned
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:00 pm
- Location: USA
- Clan: Video Game Legends
- Clan Tag: [VGL]
- Banned: Permanently
VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Hey guys! We're here again to announce the start of our next guide in the series. Here we will be expanding from looking at the defense role to encompassing the entirety of the positions that one will play on a given map.
I know I said this would be weekly but ... I have a really heavy workload and we haven't organized this well! Spring break weekend will be coming up so I've decided to make this bi-monthly! This gives us time to prepare and refine our materials to produce a better (not purple) format for our guides!
We need you all to decide what they should look like! If you don't want to see a recolored Frankenstein of the previous guide, help us figure out how these should look!
The focus of this guide will be an all encompassing summary of how to play from the Offensive, Middle, and Defensive standpoints respectively. It will, of course, include various visual aids and probably as a result will focus on main / alternate strategies of succeeding in your given role. This will probably be a guide that will be alt-tab friendly as well, so if you get handed a map you don't know, feel free to tab and skim while your team yells at you for being AFK during the map vote!
Suggestions? Opinions? Please leave them here. I will post the guide underneath when it's ready! Deadline for helping, if you're interested, is Saturday of next weekend (March 12th), so if you are so inclined, please drop by #VGL and see us.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
I know I said this would be weekly but ... I have a really heavy workload and we haven't organized this well! Spring break weekend will be coming up so I've decided to make this bi-monthly! This gives us time to prepare and refine our materials to produce a better (not purple) format for our guides!
We need you all to decide what they should look like! If you don't want to see a recolored Frankenstein of the previous guide, help us figure out how these should look!
The focus of this guide will be an all encompassing summary of how to play from the Offensive, Middle, and Defensive standpoints respectively. It will, of course, include various visual aids and probably as a result will focus on main / alternate strategies of succeeding in your given role. This will probably be a guide that will be alt-tab friendly as well, so if you get handed a map you don't know, feel free to tab and skim while your team yells at you for being AFK during the map vote!
Suggestions? Opinions? Please leave them here. I will post the guide underneath when it's ready! Deadline for helping, if you're interested, is Saturday of next weekend (March 12th), so if you are so inclined, please drop by #VGL and see us.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Last edited by Blitzkrieg on Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:12 pm, edited 8 times in total.
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Memes aside, this should come in handy, as I suck at Map13.
Looking forward to reading the guide.
Looking forward to reading the guide.
- Samurai
- Frequent Poster Miles card holder
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:17 am
- Location: England
- Clan: Lost Faction
- Clan Tag: [LF]
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Don't mean to sound like a dick, really, I don't.... but isn't it better to leave making guides up to well... better players? I just saw VGL play 3 vs 2 against another clan in CTF and still lost, How can a clan of VGL's quality help people play CTF?
If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
Again, no offence intended.
If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
Again, no offence intended.
Last edited by Samurai on Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Code: Select all
00:11 <Jarin_cz> i am pretty sure i have more doom friends than you
-
- Banned
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:43 am
- Location: The center of the A3's controversial and machiavellian conspiracy
- Clan: Cube
- Clan Tag: Aᵌ
- Contact:
- Banned: Permanently
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Samurai wrote: Don't mean to sound like a dick, really, I don't.... but isn't it better to leave making guides up to well... better players? I just saw VGL play 3 vs 2 against another clan in CTF and still lost, How can a clan of VGL's quality help people play CTF?l
S A V A G E D
Last edited by Mobius on Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
- ZZYZX
- Posts a lot
- Posts: 742
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:56 pm
- Location: Ukraine
- Clan: A3
- Clan Tag: [A3]
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Congratulations on not being in target auditory of the guide. There are people who are though.Samurai wrote:If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
quality DoomExplorer hackeringFilystyn wrote:Do you know what windows.h is? It's D, DWORD.
overcomplicated ZDoom grenade
random Doom things
GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix
- Samurai
- Frequent Poster Miles card holder
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:17 am
- Location: England
- Clan: Lost Faction
- Clan Tag: [LF]
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Thing is, who is the target audience? New players? Really?ZZYZX wrote:Congratulations on not being in target auditory of the guide. There are people who are though.Samurai wrote:If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
Code: Select all
00:11 <Jarin_cz> i am pretty sure i have more doom friends than you
-
- Banned
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:43 am
- Location: The center of the A3's controversial and machiavellian conspiracy
- Clan: Cube
- Clan Tag: Aᵌ
- Contact:
- Banned: Permanently
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Don't worry we just spanked VGL and they didn't even wanna play MAP13. I guess they didn't finish the guide for it yet so they didn't have a strat ready.Samurai wrote:Thing is, who is the target audience? New players? Really?ZZYZX wrote:Congratulations on not being in target auditory of the guide. There are people who are though.Samurai wrote:If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
- ZZYZX
- Posts a lot
- Posts: 742
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:56 pm
- Location: Ukraine
- Clan: A3
- Clan Tag: [A3]
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Uh, yes, really...Samurai wrote:Thing is, who is the target audience? New players? Really?ZZYZX wrote:Congratulations on not being in target auditory of the guide. There are people who are though.Samurai wrote:If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
quality DoomExplorer hackeringFilystyn wrote:Do you know what windows.h is? It's D, DWORD.
overcomplicated ZDoom grenade
random Doom things
GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix
- Samurai
- Frequent Poster Miles card holder
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:17 am
- Location: England
- Clan: Lost Faction
- Clan Tag: [LF]
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
How can you expect to teach players how to play maps ( in detail) that you can't even play yourselves? Has VGL ever even won a game on map13? If I was a new player, why would I want to read a guide from a clan that is notorious for losing every scrim they play?ZZYZX wrote:Uh, yes, really...Samurai wrote:Thing is, who is the target audience? New players? Really?ZZYZX wrote:Congratulations on not being in target auditory of the guide. There are people who are though.Samurai wrote:If these guides genuinely help people then great, but I feel it's a little bit like the blind leading the blind. I read your last guide and for me personally it didn't really teach me anything.
Again I don't mean to be harsh, just my honest evaluation of this. I think these are all valid questions.
Code: Select all
00:11 <Jarin_cz> i am pretty sure i have more doom friends than you
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
To be fair, it is possible to understand a map down to the details and still fail to execute strategy perfectly when game time comes. There were plenty of teams in the IDL that had a thorough understanding of each weekly map, but they were simply outplayed by better teams and lost.
could ignore the Megasphere in map16 against VGL and still win 5-0. However, if S did that against a clan like HN, S is going to get destroyed.
Just because VGL can't win map16 doesn't mean their strategy of controlling the MS is bad and should be dismissed. It just means VGL needs to read the guide.
could ignore the Megasphere in map16 against VGL and still win 5-0. However, if S did that against a clan like HN, S is going to get destroyed.
Just because VGL can't win map16 doesn't mean their strategy of controlling the MS is bad and should be dismissed. It just means VGL needs to read the guide.
Projects
EonDM - With Hatred as my sidekick.
RageCTF - Made 1 map and did much more.
DBAB LMS - Pack made for Last Man Standing.
EonWeapons - Improve vanilla weapons and add stuff for kicks.
Progressive Duel - Leaving the old behind.
IDL201X CTF - Maintaining since 2013.
Strife AA - Helped tested + 1 map
EonDM - With Hatred as my sidekick.
RageCTF - Made 1 map and did much more.
DBAB LMS - Pack made for Last Man Standing.
EonWeapons - Improve vanilla weapons and add stuff for kicks.
Progressive Duel - Leaving the old behind.
IDL201X CTF - Maintaining since 2013.
Strife AA - Helped tested + 1 map
- Samurai
- Frequent Poster Miles card holder
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:17 am
- Location: England
- Clan: Lost Faction
- Clan Tag: [LF]
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Ru5tK1ng wrote: To be fair, it is possible to understand a map down to the details and still fail to execute strategy perfectly when game time comes. There were plenty of teams in the IDL that had a thorough understanding of each weekly map, but they were simply outplayed by better teams and lost.
could ignore the Megasphere in map16 against VGL and still win 5-0. However, if S did that against a clan like HN, S is going to get destroyed.
Just because VGL can't win map16 doesn't mean their strategy of controlling the MS is bad and should be dismissed. It just means VGL needs to read the guide.
I agree, but the players who were in the IDL were still vastly experienced players. I just feel that if you're making a guide, aswell as watching countless games, you kind of need the experience of playing and winning games on the said map itself too.
If you have some guide from Alienoverlord, and he is telling you how to play each position in a map, a guy that has next to 0 experience of winning scrims, then as a new player, why would you want to take advice from a player who has a constant losing record?
For example I've watched millions of map01 games over the years, from the highest to the lowest tier of players in action, so I would say my knowledge of the map is ok. In contrary though, I am a horrible player on map01, and wouldn't write up a guide on how to play each position effectively because I'm not very good at it myself.
Code: Select all
00:11 <Jarin_cz> i am pretty sure i have more doom friends than you
-
- Banned
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:43 am
- Location: The center of the A3's controversial and machiavellian conspiracy
- Clan: Cube
- Clan Tag: Aᵌ
- Contact:
- Banned: Permanently
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
The real concern is that new players wouldn't know that vital piece of information off the bat because he's in a clan playing in priv servers. This is doubly true for Blitzkrieg and he's making guides. This is just the Kirbonium effect working as usual.Samurai wrote: If you have some guide from Alienoverlord, and he is telling you how to play each position in a map, a guy that has next to 0 experience of winning scrims, then as a new player, why would you want to take advice from a player who has a constant losing record?
Last edited by Mobius on Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
- Blitzkrieg
- Banned
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:00 pm
- Location: USA
- Clan: Video Game Legends
- Clan Tag: [VGL]
- Banned: Permanently
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Valid points all, gentlemen. That's why we are asking for your help! We already have some people who will be auditing our work to ensure that it's quality is an improvement over the previous iteration, and that means both in content and presentation.
-
- Banned
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:43 am
- Location: The center of the A3's controversial and machiavellian conspiracy
- Clan: Cube
- Clan Tag: Aᵌ
- Contact:
- Banned: Permanently
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Why would any sane person help their competitors?
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
To keep competitive scene alive?Mobius wrote: Why would any sane person help their competitors?
<Siferah>: Who needs support anyways?
<Sean>: idk
<Sean>: Disabled people?
- The Toxic Avenger
- Forum Staff
- Posts: 1520
- Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 1:12 am
- Location: New Jersey
- Clan: ???
- Clan Tag: [???]
- Contact:
- ZZYZX
- Posts a lot
- Posts: 742
- Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:56 pm
- Location: Ukraine
- Clan: A3
- Clan Tag: [A3]
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
No idea, I personally wouldn't do a 13 guide, but then again we have other associated people who can contribute :PSamurai wrote:Again I don't mean to be harsh, just my honest evaluation of this. I think these are all valid questions.
Last edited by ZZYZX on Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
quality DoomExplorer hackeringFilystyn wrote:Do you know what windows.h is? It's D, DWORD.
overcomplicated ZDoom grenade
random Doom things
GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix
-
- Banned
- Posts: 815
- Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:43 am
- Location: The center of the A3's controversial and machiavellian conspiracy
- Clan: Cube
- Clan Tag: Aᵌ
- Contact:
- Banned: Permanently
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
How do you keep the competitive scene alive with these tutorials exactly?ConTheFal wrote:To keep competitive scene alive?Mobius wrote: Why would any sane person help their competitors?
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Helping your competitors doesn't keep the scene alive, it just makes you easier to beat. You don't see Coaches in professional sports giving away game plans and plays.Mobius wrote:How do you keep the competitive scene alive with these tutorials exactly?ConTheFal wrote:To keep competitive scene alive?Mobius wrote: Why would any sane person help their competitors?
Projects
EonDM - With Hatred as my sidekick.
RageCTF - Made 1 map and did much more.
DBAB LMS - Pack made for Last Man Standing.
EonWeapons - Improve vanilla weapons and add stuff for kicks.
Progressive Duel - Leaving the old behind.
IDL201X CTF - Maintaining since 2013.
Strife AA - Helped tested + 1 map
EonDM - With Hatred as my sidekick.
RageCTF - Made 1 map and did much more.
DBAB LMS - Pack made for Last Man Standing.
EonWeapons - Improve vanilla weapons and add stuff for kicks.
Progressive Duel - Leaving the old behind.
IDL201X CTF - Maintaining since 2013.
Strife AA - Helped tested + 1 map
RE: VGL Workshop #02: How to Play: Map13
Unless of course, they're retiring, and feel that their success is impactful enough to release a guide for newer players... which uhhh, I don't know if that is true for this clanRu5tK1ng wrote:Helping your competitors doesn't keep the scene alive, it just makes you easier to beat. You don't see Coaches in professional sports giving away game plans and plays.Mobius wrote:How do you keep the competitive scene alive with these tutorials exactly?ConTheFal wrote:To keep competitive scene alive?Mobius wrote: Why would any sane person help their competitors?