DRZ challenges 3D to clan war

[thebestkiller]

seems that you'll never accept fair conditions...

[Mobius]

Scrims can be played in whatever setting they'd like, but isn't a CTF wad that is commonly played by a good 95% of the CTF players, by definition, a standard?

Commonly agreed standard; however, it isn't an "official" standard by any stretch.

Also, this is the same crowd that has stuck to their "if you want to challenge us, you'll have to agree to playing in our homemade servers in our own outdated CTF pack" M.O. for years. It's weird to have such demands when a huge percentage of the community plays a different CTF wad from them, and in a stable dedicated server (be it FC+ or GV). Ultimately, it is their choice to stay in their comfort zone, although they shouldn't be expecting many clans to agree to such terms.

Non-issue. I said it to Jenova using his own words against it. It's not negotiable then do not negotiate. Also Irrelevant. Also the same point I made before about advantageous positions. It's fair. There's no rules on this port dictating otherwise.

They've long crossed the line when they started bragging about their wins and insulting those who lost to them (they also think they can hide their insults by speaking in Spanish, which never worked on me in particular). They've been like that every time I watched them play against clans I'm familiar with a few years ago, and if their not-so-subtle bragging is any indication, I wouldn't put it past them to be the more or less the same as they were since then.

Ultimately irrelevant.

That would be like me saying I'm objectively a better dueler than you because I beat you in SIPOOMA in a server I hosted in my own house, for example.

You would be right in practice. You are the better dueler because I am the fool who thought I can win and beat you at your home server so many continents away so yeah.

Indeed, I would have proven myself to be the better player, but only under several conditions that heavily benefited me, and under very unpopular and irregular settings. Nobody in their right minds would give me credibility if I claimed that. But a scenario like that would be "fair" grounds, according to these 3D (aka re-branded ARG/PT) guys.

Then don't play with them. Again it is really not negotiable.

So why'd you challenge somebody and propose settings that give you the advantage? That would give you a lot less to brag about if you won, not to mention your offer would look less attractive to whoever you're challenging, which is one good reason why there have been quite a few challenges that were never greenlit in the past. Hope this makes sense. c:

A real fight isn't determined by fair. By that logic I should cry foul for 5 years of R picking MAP08 against a majority of the player base who don't know even how to look at MAP08.

[Sean]

seems that you'll never accept fair conditions...

It appears you have a different definition of fair to everyone else

[Ivan]

I think this very challenge is not fair. It's a bunch of angry men challenging mentally challenged men. Big no no. They have enough challenges as it is.

[Razgriz]

BTW just to put it out there A3 has done TDM scrims on my wad which is not a standard wad, on BE which is not a standard scrim server, with DM flags that are not standard, but the results were legit as any other scrim. Others have also scrimmed on my TDM wad as well and they consider their wins/loses legit. I'm sure nobody would care if it were RageCTF or CoreCTF being the base for scrims because people are familiar, but that doesn't dictate them as the new standard in any way.

It seems it boils down to "WAH I cannot play the same maps I've been playing for the past 100 years anymore, I have to play maps I don't know/enjoy playing on!"

But also let me know when Doom gets a massive playerbase like Smite, League of Legends, CS:GO or any of those other games people like to compare this community to. Maybe when there are actual leagues and players who are serious about taking part in huge tournaments with decent cash prizes we should one day in the year never100 return to this topic

[mifu]

seems that you'll never accept fair conditions...

So are you saying Jenova's proposal is not fair?

Incase you missed it here it is again.

Imo what should be done is:

3 games on NJ, 3D picks all maps
3 games on south american servers, DRZ picks all maps

OR if 3D has 3 euro players and uses all of them:

6-7 games on NJ, alternating map picks (this is assuming both teams ping something similar, since euro -> nj prob ping 100, and south america -> nj also probably 100)

Sounds like to me, that YOU GUYS wont accept fair conditions. I already said this was a fairly sweet deal. Your going to have to play idl though as NJ does not even host stctfmp anymore. Thats something you wont get.

[Marcaek]

This isn't worth persuing.

[Kara Kurt]

But also let me know when Doom gets a massive playerbase like Smite, League of Legends, CS:GO or any of those other games people like to compare this community to. Maybe when there are actual leagues and players who are serious about taking part in huge tournaments with decent cash prizes we should one day in the year never100 return to this topic

Where's Cecil.

[Ivan]

This isn't worth persuing.

Or pursuing, right :)

[Tai]

Without going into a long drawn out post like I'm prone to do, I do wanna say that at the end of the day, I just question 3D's genuine interests. Do they play stctfmp just because that's what they prefer, or because they know for a fact that no one really plays that WAD anymore, so that's 3D's way to get their "edge" (or, just their jollies at annoying their opponent)?

Cause the idea that 3D would want to play scrims on maps like "Return of Fragport" and then would brag about winning there after the fact, only to as I put it "automatically reject" the IDL wad that's filled with maps everyone's used to is bothersome to me if I'm running a clan and deciding whether to play them. I'm all for the idea of not wanting to be restricted to "standards", hey, have yourself a Deathball or One-flag CTF scrim once in a while! I wouldn't be opposed to R doing that sometime. But is that what 3D is REALLY about?

HOw is what 3D doing really any different from the alleged "my way or the highway" approach that guys like Mobius supposedly see in "standardized" settings of competition? Seriously, why does it seem like 3D feels that stctfmp is the only way to go when it wasn't even considered a way to go back in it's heyday? I don't think it's unfair to 2nd guess that personally, and quite honestly, I'm not impressed by 3D's representative's answers. DO they really care about the servers? Also, would they be opposed to RageCTF or CoreCTF? Hey, go with those then if DRZ agrees. But 3D can't have it both ways; I'd sympathize with them a little if they just wanted anything but the IDL WAD, but they can't go and reject everything BUT stctfmp, especially considering how outdated it is.

If they truly are only about stctfmp for CTF scrims, considering everything wrong with that WAD, I believe their motives should be questioned, absolutely. Maybe they are just oddballs, but I've seen subtle trolls get away with far less.

[mifu]

Yea this is not happening as we can not get an accord/agreement on terms here.

It would of been cool but alas, no one is willing to give up something. So for now We'll postpone this and re-draft the challenge (thats right, 3D is not off the hook yet)

@Tai: 3D has hinted to me after playing in a pub server with them that they wouldn't mind a multi gamemode clan war which does sound alot fun :D so what I might do is remake this thread later to see if we can agree on something. Might be a huge one in this case.

[Torvald]

...have yourself a Deathball or One-flag CTF scrim once in a while! I wouldn't be opposed to R doing that sometime. But is that what 3D is REALLY about?

R vs CAD in freeze tag?


On topic: I have to agree with the point made about ctf wads. There's a reason a standard map pack exists. There are simply too many wads and maps too choose from, leaving any clan capable of being unstoppable on an unknown map to other clans. It's a shame that a proper compromise could be reached, maybe CAD will have to give DRZ a run for their money.

[Ru5tK1ng]

I get the feeling everyone was reverse trolled by the South Americans...

That's why it's a good idea to never take them too seriously.

[Doomkid]

stctfmp is easily the BEST ctf wad ever, better than dwango5 even