low & mid-card clans/players must play more to ensure a good future for the scene

[Reach Term]

I'm not talking to high-card players and clans like TM, LF, PRO and R. Your opinions are not welcome, sorry. Unless you have something good to say that would support this.

Now, I've been seeing a lot of clans who wants to be good at priv but yet I never see them taken part of priv or scrim with other clans.(From my POV) I do feel this has to do with the high cards over powering the other cards and that in turns makes them not play. So I have some ideas that might help:

* The obvious one is for you guys to priv more and if you don't get picked, then go to another server and priv with the left overs. - This has been a problem lately, more and more people are joining privs and the mid and low cards never get picked. I say if there's more than enough players to create at least a 3 vs 3 server, then do it.

*scrim more with clans in your bracket and scrim with high cards very once in a while. - This is a know brainner. How can you be better if you're beating people in your own bracket but still get your ass kicked with the high-cards. However, when you're getting your ass kicked, you're learning something.


*Learn the physics and mechanics of the game and the scene - This is a lesson learned from Tor and Water, you can go up pretty quickly if you understand the game and also the priv's physics and mechanics. They've went from obscure GvH players to Water in R and Tor in PRO

*Everyone plays "the game" You should too - Don't expect to be in the high card clans in the next two years if you're not quickly talented. Mostly everyone in these high card clans are have been player since 2005 or even earlier. Don't be thinking of the sky when you just join.

*Be careful who you hang out with - This is a lesson learn from Dranzer who could've earn his potential but got banned and now branded from the scene as the guy who help spread the virus.

*Respect the people who deserves it and respect the scene - This is a lesson from myself, I've been respecting all of the top high cards since I came back and I also respected the scene even during my infamy days. Although, I myself is not a high card person nor in a high card clan(Because I have no intentions to join a clan due to my part time status) At least I support it and help people if when they need it.

*Aim doesn't mean anything - This is the case for AVC, He has a good aim but lacks respect to fellow players, chemistry with those people and hindsight ability to think for his team.


I do have more points but I'm quickly writing this, I'll post more when I'm back. I do hope you guys would take this advice seriously as this is a problem I've been seeing since I came back.

[one_Two]

Yeah good points, I'd like to scrim a bit more as it's been a while since my last scrim. One thing I noticed when we played S and I think H was all the players seem to drop back into defense kinda instinctively because we were getting so hammered by the opposition and I know this has the opposite effect to helping the cause but it's hard for people to change this thinking. Also because it's so rare that we have 3 DD players at one time (and I'm not complaining) and if I can convince them to play we more or less play whoever is on. I think more smaller clans would be a good idea.

[Wirtualnosc]

I support this strongly! That's what VGL did back when I was leading it and I'm definitely not regretting it.

[Bloax]

I remember back in the day when we scrimmed everything that moved.
Good times they were, and slowly rise we did indeed.

So yes, definitely a good topic. Have fun guys.

[Ivan]

*Be careful who you hang out with - This is a lesson learn from Dranzer who could've earn his potential but got banned and now branded from the scene as the guy who help spread the virus.

Yeah I definitely agree with you here. Possible addition here; never hang out with ex-cheaters.

[Razgriz]

There is a problem in what you're saying. You're saying that the ones who don't get picked should go to another server to play, but you are also saying they want to get better. They can't get better if they play people of their skill level only, they have to be involved in higher-tier playing, and the more the better for them overall.

Now, what should happen is instead of them running off and playing on another server, YOU ALL who are active priv players (Whether on NJ FC. Spak City, GV, etc) should be picking some of these guys more often instead of your friends and family. If you really do care about the activity of clans, you would be doing this instead of telling them to run off to another server to play (in hopes of getting better and getting a shot to get in on a higher-tier clan).

It's not what the new clan guys should be doing, it's what the older clan guys should be doing.

[one_Two]

mhm I suppose there isn't really a big enough range in skill for players to slowly improve their game.

[Bloax]

There's a huge gap between the chain of "Noob" < "Pretty bad" < "Kind of average" < "Meh" < "Somewhat good" < "Pretty good" < "Good" < "Quite good"
And then the high-tier hangout. Because even if you're at the very top of that chain, you're still absolutely going to be smashed to bits.

[DTDsphere]

I have no idea what tier I'm in.

[-Jes-]

I think Razgriz hit the nail on the head here. The only way people in lower tiers can 'rise up', is by the ones at the top doing their part to bring the lower ones up there.

[Torvald]

I'm not talking to high-card players and clans like TM, LF, PRO and R. Your opinions are not welcome, sorry. Unless you have something good to say that would support this.

[spoiler]I think people have a right to disagree with your post and voice their opinion on the matter respectively. Don't be an autocratic censoring asshole.
[/spoiler]

The obvious one is for you guys to priv more and if you don't get picked, then go to another server and priv with the left overs. - This has been a problem lately, more and more people are joining privs and the mid and low cards never get picked. I say if there's more than enough players to create at least a 3 vs 3 server, then do it.

I have to agree with the priv more. I hear a few people in clans saying how they want to practice, but because there clans are so small and too many are inactive they can't practice, can you really blame them for that? When I came into the competitive scene in the winter of 2011 and joined a clan, my clan mates were highly inactive so I couldn't scrim; and I never got picked. Even if I did, I was usually the cause for my team to lose, so it was perfectly understandable why the wouldn't pick me. I found by dueling people frequently and getting my butt onto TeamSpeak played a major role. It really helps to befriend the competitive community, that was a big thing for me. Once I started hanging around the pros I found myself simultaneously getting better and getting picked more frequently. It's a snowballing effect.

*scrim more with clans in your bracket and scrim with high cards very once in a while. - This is a know brainner. How can you be better if you're beating people in your own bracket but still get your ass kicked with the high-cards. However, when you're getting your ass kicked, you're learning something.

Again, I agree. The key thing in this point is moderation. Play a little in both fields, scrim a few lower tier clans and scrim a few top tier clans. In both ends of the spectrum, it's no fun when you get your ass kicked all the time, and it's no fun when you win all the time either (unless of course you're in R and your head is so far up your own ass; then every victory is fun). The fastest way to get better is the play someone better than you, or scrim a clan better than you. Record a demo, go back and watch how they play, you'd be surprised what you can learn. Keep things mixed up, don't have a routine. The most fun can be had when you scrim a clan equal in skill to your own.

*Learn the physics and mechanics of the game and the scene - This is a lesson learned from Tor and Water, you can go up pretty quickly if you understand the game and also the priv's physics and mechanics. They've went from obscure GvH players to Water in R and Tor in PRO

Thank-you for the kind words. I'd like to further re-enforce this point. Anything is possible. As I mentioned earlier in my post, hanging around the competitive players sped up the learning curve tremendously.

*Everyone plays "the game" You should too - Don't expect to be in the high card clans in the next two years if you're not quickly talented. Mostly everyone in these high card clans are have been player since 2005 or even earlier. Don't be thinking of the sky when you just join.

Anything is possible. How good you get all rests on how badly you want to be good. It's a simple truth and applies to all aspects of life. Look at where watermelon and me are. We've only been playing competitively for one year, and he's in R, and I'm in PRO. The harder you try, the faster you get better.

*Be careful who you hang out with - This is a lesson learn from Dranzer who could've earn his potential but got banned and now branded from the scene as the guy who help spread the virus.

This point speaks for it self. Have common sense and don't do anything dumb or illegal. If you get yourself into a posse, drama will be inevitable, just be smart about it and try not to get involved.

*Respect the people who deserves it and respect the scene - This is a lesson from myself, I've been respecting all of the top high cards since I came back and I also respected the scene even during my infamy days. Although, I myself is not a high card person nor in a high card clan(Because I have no intentions to join a clan due to my part time status) At least I support it and help people if when they need it.

Agreed. Just because they are in a top tier clan does not mean you have to get down on your knees and unzip their fly. People will have a lot more respect for you if you treat others how you want to be treated, while maintaining your own dignity. No one likes a doormat.

*Aim doesn't mean anything - This is the case for AVC, He has a good aim but lacks respect to fellow players, chemistry with those people and hindsight ability to think for his team.

It depends what context we are applying this to. If it is a TDM scrim, then yes, aim is the priority objective. CTF? not so much. It does play a contributing factor, but the main precedence of a clan is communication. In reality, when you combine a high level of communication with unrivaled aim & tactics - you get R.

I can't stress enough how important it is for communication, especially in CTF. So for anyone getting into the competitive scene, I highly urge you to get TeamSpeak; vocal communication will go a long way.

[Reach Term]

No quote:

Raz: Let's say you're "the new kid on the block" boxer; you face the world heavyweight champion in a exhibition match; you'll lose. But rather keep calling for a rematch. You face your own bracket and come on top from there. - No, I am not saying they should forever play with their own tier, I said mostly within your bracket then face the high-tier. Also I say this when there's like 15 people in a priv server. It's pointless to have that amount in a 8 player server. Who knows, maybe a high card or two would join with the others. Also I agreed with picking the mid and lows. The only person that actually does this from my POV is Water.

Tor:

Spoiler Remark

[spoiler]Tor, you gotta calm down there, ok? Alight? lol No it's not that I fear of a disagreement, I find that SOME high cards would just fart ego dust all over the thread and say that low and mid cards suck because of blah blah own fault blah blah they don't priv blah blah I have an ego. It's not welcome when I'm trying to help this scene.[/spoiler]

Also I agree to your points.

[Razgriz]

From what you're saying, it sounds like all of the rookie players who are benched will be going off to another server (which still doesn't help them much). It's the quintessential fact in doom that you have to consistently play against better players to get better.

[Catastrophe]

I dunno, I beat that megaman guy who has been playing for months straight whereas I have played it once in my life. Playing against people around his level didn't work too well for that guy.

[ZZYZX]

Just got link to this epic thread, time to reply!

General opinion: most of things you said are OK.

I'm not talking to high-card players and clans like TM, LF, PRO and R. Your opinions are not welcome, sorry. Unless you have something good to say that would support this.

Cool. Translation: "if your skill is higher than average, you should agree with me or GTFO".

Now, I've been seeing a lot of clans who wants to be good at priv but yet I never see them taken part of priv or scrim with other clans.

Wait what? Lot of clans I didn't know about? Name those please.

*Be careful who you hang out with - This is a lesson learn from Dranzer who could've earn his potential but got banned and now branded from the scene as the guy who help spread the virus.

Ah, that's where Dranzer went to!
Well, this guy does everything he's told to do — that is how he caught that wannabe-gay thing from AvC. It just means Dranzer is silly, not that you should thoughtlessly avoid people disliked by the community.

Btw, what virus? Looks like I missed the whole thing.

*scrim more with clans in your bracket and scrim with high cards very once in a while. - This is a know brainner. How can you be better if you're beating people in your own bracket but still get your ass kicked with the high-cards. However, when you're getting your ass kicked, you're learning something.

Hey RT, find me another mid-tier competitive clan to scrim with. Currently all (semi)active clans are either pro (, EL>, <PRO>) or very pro ([TM], [LF], [R]). Recently [A3] appeared again, I think it also goes into least category.

Now, about picking players in priv. You know, from my ultimate point of view I would pick good players even over myself — and obviously over anyone else, unless I go completely random.

And I'm just curious, what tier do you think you personally belong to? And do you have any well-known ingame nickname?

UPDATE 24.01.2013: [A3] can't even beat <PRO>. It goes into first category.

[Reach Term]

this is what I dread as well....

Cool. Translation: "if your skill is higher than average, you should agree with me or GTFO".

No, don't assume and imply things you misunderstood. The reason why I don't want high skill players to post because they might rub the other cards the wrong way. Agree or disagree... just be intelligent about it.

Wait what? Lot of clans I didn't know about? Name those please.

Here

Hey RT, find me another mid-tier competitive clan to scrim with. Currently all (semi)active clans are either pro (, EL>, <PRO>) or very pro ([TM], [LF], [R]). Recently [A3] appeared again, I think it also goes into least category.

Calling and EL> pro clans.....




is actually low card and EL is mid card. I would say TM as well but I''m too much of a nice guy to say it also A3 is mid card thankfully Raz and Ivan makes it mid.

From what you're saying, it sounds like all of the rookie players who are benched will be going off to another server (which still doesn't help them much). It's the quintessential fact in doom that you have to consistently play against better players to get better.

Yes but They're not going to be any better just by sitting in a server moaning or begging to be picked. Also once you're on top in your own card. I believe the high cards would be calling for fresh scrim. Learn from your peers than learn from the best.

[ZZYZX]

Here

[TH]

Absolutely inactive since Skulltag

[UNIX]

Non-competitive

[DD]

Non-competitive

<ARG>

Non-competitive

[VGL]

Dead

[PK]

Troll clan

[J]

Well, yes, I missed this one. The others from that forum are listed in my post.

I would say TM as well

You should look at TM beating PRO 5:1 and/or at TM beating R, and then say it's mid clan.

[Medicris]

As much as it's deemed necessary here, I think that most people don't want to commit to a 4-12 month "priv rite of passage" of getting their asses whooped against the same 30~ players over and over just to be socially accepted by the rest, with many of their attempts ending in getting chewed out and benched for days. Attitude is important for inducting new players: I witnessed a guy get cussed out and subsequently kicked for making a mistake during the CTF match about a year ago. That's an attractive atmosphere that keeps a guy wanting more, no?

No one likes to lose, but if you give a slot or two to some eager new guys, a few games lost are worth the new competition they could provide in the future (and be more considerate of the jump they're attempting to make, too). Make it an unwritten policy to encourage any and all potential new blood to come along in and give it a shot, and give at least one slot on each team to them every game if they're present. And if you lose, big deal (It seems to be a big deal every time I witness a priv match on TS)!

The sad fact is that there's the masses of normal players, and the elusive, exclusive club of the same handful of players who play amongst each other all the time as Bloax said. While these players continue to hone their skills against one another, they continually distance themselves from the common populace, widening the gap between the public and the elite. It seems like it goes for the clan scrim scene, too. I feel bad for complaining about a problem without offering a solution, and I wish I had one. But I don't.

so gonna regret this wall of text when I wake up

[Bloax]

A half-way solution would be having a nice atmosphere around it, so that the ones on the lacking side of the gap won't be demotivated from staying until they have contracted the gap a bit.

But then there are players that quit for their own reasons, like me - I have such amazingly shitty luck with playing competitive games that I really didn't want to keep going.
Because at the time of my little peak, I wasn't the best mid-tier player, no. But I sure wasn't the worst. (I also remember being picked pretty often, so yay.)

But the whole luck thing I had made it incredibly demotivating to play, because while you know that you're pretty much at the top of the mid-tier, you can easily play absolutely horrendously.
And there's nothing you can do about it. Nothing at all. You're just going to be a trainwreck over half the time, and play normally the rest of it.

And that isn't fun. That I can tell you. And if this isn't for fun, then what is this for?

[Ivan]

I'd rather change the topic here before it becomes a who is mid tier and who is high tier, because that's just purely stupid.

What I did to become good was to simply play on Zdaemon back then. Now that it's kind of dead, you guys would probably not get any better in there. In fact one of the more reasonable options seem like to play on Odamex, because that's where a majority of the good players are. The other majority is on Zandronum, but good luck getting through the egos and all.

I'd gladly help people become better, though, even though I'm a mid tier ;_;