Goodbye Mobius

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Razgriz
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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#41

Post by Razgriz » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:37 pm

I proceeded to be a dick and then later R and its boys shitted up an MDF event.
I guess with this admission you deserve the rep people used to know you by.
"I didn't do anything wrong but I did willingly interrupt an event and well I did say that a discord can die for all I care"
Regardless of how that event unfolded, it would've been better just to listen to what was requested instead of trying to use the past as a basis for your actions. I agree with the F8 argument but it's still not a basis for anything.
my protest to you is mainly because it was never an issue back in the day and if players cannot concentrate on the game instead of reading gossip texts maybe they should readjusted their priorities.
It is weird how in that regard you do use the past as a measuring stick for your actions to interrupt but now it's unfair for people to use your past in the basis of their actions of removing you. Maybe you still didn't realize yourself that times have changed, and you created a whole bait thread based on barely anything, a thread that pretty much serves no purpose but to draw attention to non issues. Yes, how people talk about anyone in other discords is a non issue, you can't fight everything everyone says ever and you aren't entitled to a platform to fight that when it is based purely on personal views.

When I said it's too late, it is too late when it comes for those who already hold a view on you and wont give you a chance to change that, and there is nothing you can do about that since it's not up to you to be given that chance. It's apparent you have done some unsavory things in small doses, but you already have known for a very long time that reputation follows you. Maybe instead of running and becoming secluded to just Megaman continued integration into the community would've been a better decision.

RE: Clan politics

I like how I was removed from a hidden discussions channel from the discord, feeling attacked? Can't confront me in PM? It's so 'personalized' right now it's actually hilarious. It's not my problem that I don't agree and am an opponent against the clan on this 'issue', maybe it's time to move on from the community if you can't handle opposition anymore as a whole.

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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#42

Post by Zakken » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:45 pm

Careful not to bite into the "if you ban me, you're breaking your own rules" and "if you ban me, you should be banning many others too" fallacies. Get dragged into that circular logic and you'll never get anything done.

On a side note, NJ priv has been doing fine in recent times. At the very least, there is no one around that actively endangers its very functionality, and everyone actually follows the rules and doesn't disrupt the games. We only get minor incidents about 5% of the time, which don't go unpunished either (props to EmZee for doing his job). I'm actually involved with priv unlike most of the folks in this thread, so it is odd to see claims to the contrary being posted here.

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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#43

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:56 pm

Zakken wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:45 pm
On a side note, NJ priv has been doing fine in recent times. At the very least, there is no one around that actively endangers its very functionality, and everyone actually follows the rules and doesn't disrupt the games. We only get minor incidents about 5% of the time, which don't go unpunished either (props to EmZee for doing his job). I'm actually involved with priv unlike most of the folks in this thread, so it is odd to see claims to the contrary being posted here.
And I'm actually in the NJ mod channel where it seems at least once a week there is always an issue with some of the common names. Shane has been making a hard effort to clean up priv. However, going by nax's policy, I see no reason why repeat offenders wouldn't be considered for removal. So unlike you, I actually have insider knowledge of NJ moderation.

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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#44

Post by IdeIdoom » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:04 pm

Zakken wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:45 pm
Careful not to bite into the "if you ban me, you're breaking your own rules" and "if you ban me, you should be banning many others too" fallacies. Get dragged into that circular logic and you'll never get anything done.
Should we do the same for Nax then?

Here are some rules set to the staff and mods.
These rules were never changed so it means they should be respected despite the person who made it, right?
NEVER flaunt your power around and do not become power hungry. It will not be tolerated.
Hmm, this whole "I am lead admin, I do this decision because I can" is breaking that rule
Playing Favorites
Don't coddle the users - if a user creates problems and then is forced to deal with the consequences, forcing the situation to end may send the message that people can act stupid and we will save the day. This means NO "VIP"s. The community needs to be mature and this helps users grow. We essentially are users as well.
Many users are way worse than what Mobius has done in this thread but they get a free pass? Even decay has been awfully "vocal" in a civil thread
Who we are
If we work together as a team and not as one person, this train will keep trucking along without any hitches. We will encounter problems, we will encounter "Oh shit" times, and we WILL disagree with each other at some points, but if we're civil, mature and professional, it will be MUCH easier to overcome.
He already mentioned that he never passed by the staff this kind of decision and he decided to do this all on his own. What a team huh?
How to address users asking why they or a friend were banned
If you don't know why someone was banned, don't give a BS answer, or a vague/half answer.
Not yet banned but the kind of answers he gives in this thread contradict themselves constantly. And even the "wanting out of the community" is quite the BS answer when he doesn't give concrete evidence, only vague stuff.

At this point, it's quite hypocritical to even mention this kind of decision from him. And I'm not even going to touch the Master Server policies since they have nothing at all to do with what he has done yet there's already the log of him saying he's going to do Master ban too? Throw away the rules at this point since they don't even matter.

Hell, you can also point out the rules Mobius has broken, without using Nax's post, doing your own research but can you even find such a thing?
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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#45

Post by jdagenet » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:24 pm

I did not want to get involved, but the amount of corruption and dishonesty inclines me to do so. That being said, I'll only step in once.

What from this thread constitutes as master ban worthy and "that book needs to be close"? Mobius' most recent topics include the possibility of a GZDoom merge, the Blitz ordeal, clan expertise, and the CBL League. The latter actually having a cash prize he put up with his own money. Doesn't sound like he's a "net negative" to the community to me. People are just stuck in the past and that is a fact. We've all done things in the past that we're not proud of, and he has been dealt with accordingly in the past. We should be beyond this point of bringing things up that aren't relevant anymore to try and strike someone down out of pure bias. When I see this sort of behavior coming from the admins, it really disappoints me in what this place has become without anyone ever knowing. At one point in time Nax said he wanted to resurrect Zandronum -- this is not how you do it at all. Again, you're wanting to master ban someone who put up their own money (and also offered up $1k for the IDL) to get people involved in a league on this port, the very same port you say you want to bring life back into. Using personal bias and past events that have already been dealt with by your predecessors (whether you like it or not) as material reason to carry out a master ban on someone that does not deserve it is corrupt, and you know it. This thread should've never have come to this, but when people are allowed to derail without punishment and administrative action is abused, then I suppose it was inevitable. Who would've thought what happens in his own Discord would warrant a master ban for a completely separate thing.

Whether Mobius is master banned or not will never change how I now view the top of Zandronum. The true driving force behind the operations done at the top is revealed. Bias has spilled over into and polluted the realm of justified administrative action and it's quite disheartening knowing that now. I'm not sure what this "new era" of Doom is, but if it's built upon the basis previously stated, then the future is looking pretty grim.
<Dynamo_>uh
<Dynamo_>did you just take the thread away
<FusedQyou>Dunno
<FusedQyou>ask the thread

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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#46

Post by Mobius » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:35 pm

Zakken wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:45 pm
Careful not to bite into the "if you ban me, you're breaking your own rules" and "if you ban me, you should be banning many others too" fallacies. Get dragged into that circular logic and you'll never get anything done.
You even admit that a masterban is excessively beyond the scope of Nax's authority here, and that he must play by the book. So if he isn't playing by the book then the book becomes irrelevant which is why I said "if you ban me for this then there isn't any rules," because that would apply to him not holding to the standard which he, himself, set forward.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#47

Post by werewindle » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:49 pm

jdagenet wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:24 pm
and also offered up $1k for the IDL
Yes, he came to us with an unbearably smug attitude and announced that he was buying us whole for ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS. It was insulting, fuck him for even trying. It's funny that you present that act as a proof of his magnanimity, because for me it was the final straw.

Btw, how much were you worth?

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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#48

Post by Mobius » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:55 pm

werewindle wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:49 pm
jdagenet wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:24 pm
and also offered up $1k for the IDL
Yes, he came to us with an unbearably smug attitude and announced that he was buying us whole for ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS. It was insulting, fuck him for even trying. It's funny that you present that act as a proof of his magnanimity, because for me it was the final straw.

Btw, how much were you worth?
I put the money on the table and asked about it. Bones and Rust told me no one wanted to do CTF anymore so I asked to buy out IDL from you. It isn't my fault you guys didn't want that money so I gave it to another community who would play for money.

If I hate doom so much why would I give up 1k for it? I did a 1k tournament for roleplaying (300 more for 2nd place). Why? Cause I love that game. Was it a hard-ball pitch? Yes.. but the point was I did it. You turned it down for whatever reason. This isn't the time for sour grapes.

So you're telling me paying our talent is bad? Why can't we have what Overwatch, DOTA, LOL, Street Fighter, Evo have? We can't have professional play even if it's grass-roots? I'm paying you guys out of my pocket to compete and give winners money. Money. You guys talk about loving doom but the guy who hates doom is putting money out for Doom. We can't have our own little professional paid talent? That's bad?

You guys are talking about the times are changing: no it's not. You want to keep doom stagnate. Every other community gets to have shine but we don't. My idea of money was to give us something too, but we can't have that so I gave it to a mod in doom for Megaman.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#49

Post by Zakken » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:29 pm

Ru5tK1ng wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:56 pm
And I'm actually in the NJ mod channel where it seems at least once a week there is always an issue with some of the common names. Shane has been making a hard effort to clean up priv. However, going by nax's policy, I see no reason why repeat offenders wouldn't be considered for removal. So unlike you, I actually have insider knowledge of NJ moderation.
The difference here is that your source of information is no more than hearsay, whereas most of the time, I'm actually in the server seeing the events unfolding. Even still, one incident a week isn't too bad in my opinion... Although I'm also of the belief that punishments should be harsher, because repeat offenders not learning their lesson seems to be a recurring thing here!
IdeIdoom wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:04 pm
Hmm, this whole "I am lead admin, I do this decision because I can" is breaking that rule
It is Nax's decision, but when the rest of the staff is in agreement with it, alongside the majority of the community, that gives it a lot more validation than you think. Staff should reserve the right to remove major liabilities to the community without the need of a rule telling them to do so, and trying to shift the discussion towards a path of rule semantics seems like a dishonest attempt to invalidate all of the grievances caused by said liability.
IdeIdoom wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:04 pm
Many users are way worse than what Mobius has done in this thread but they get a free pass?

You guys defending Mobius sure have a lot of mystery individuals who are supposedly worse for the community than he has ever been! Care to share some light on who they are?
IdeIdoom wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:04 pm
Even decay has been awfully "vocal" in a civil thread
Given how Mobius was many times worse in discussions for the past years, I personally believe he had it coming to him.
jdagenet wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:24 pm
I did not want to get involved, but the amount of corruption and dishonesty inclines me to do so.
You know what? You're right about this. But the only corruption and dishonesty I'm seeing here is from you and four other A3-drones coming out of the woodwork to protect your leader while trying to sell us the idea that you aren't too damn biased to provide fair arguments. Everyone not associated with A3 is in favour of a ban. Ex-A3 members like Decay and TTA know their game and are also in favour of a ban. Even Razgriz is taking up a stand against him. But I guess it's easier to just point fingers at everyone else from your perspective.

Your argument is bogus to the very core. The GZDoom and Blitz debacles are the only "good" examples you mentioned. The thread on clan expertise is good, but ironic and kind of dishonest considering A3's reputation and talent for starting trouble in many communities. The CBL League isn't representative of the entire Mega Man community, and they sure as hell don't hold very positive opinions about him either. Pouring prize money into the game is completely irrelevant too. The all-encompassing flaw of everything you said is that none of these things have excused or will ever excuse bad behaviour everywhere else.
jdagenet wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:24 pm
This thread should've never have come to this, but when people are allowed to derail without punishment and administrative action is abused, then I suppose it was inevitable.
I'll concede that you're right about this too. I mean, RustKing tried to derail the thread twice already and nobody's saying a thing! And don't think I forgot about Mobius getting little more than a slap on the wrist for insulting me a million times before, while I somehow also got punished for defending myself against him. But that's in the past now, and I do believe the staff is in better footing these days.
Mobius wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:35 pm
You even admit that a masterban is excessively beyond the scope of Nax's authority here, and that he must play by the book. So if he isn't playing by the book then the book becomes irrelevant which is why I said "if you ban me for this then there isn't any rules," because that would apply to him not holding to the standard which he, himself, set forward.
I stand by my opinion that a masterban is not the way to go, but I personally won't bother contesting it if it comes to that, because I still agree with the notion that you are a net negative to the scene. If the proverbial book is not helping us resolve this situation, it's a simple matter of rewriting it until it becomes relevant again -- at least, that would be my next best proposed solution to Nax & co.
Mobius wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:55 pm
You guys talk about loving doom but the guy who hates doom is putting money out for Doom. We can't have our own little professional paid talent? That's bad?
It is bad if it comes from you. Nobody took issue in Bones and Dewww providing their own prize pot to IDL. Nobody took issue in Jakob providing prize pots to a ZDaemon duel tournament. Nobody took issue in Jace Hall pouring one grand into a survival challenge. Nobody had a problem with you using that money on CBL either! Money is good, but it should come from someone who has our backs in more ways than just the money, and preferably isn't disliked by everyone. It's not our fault that you alienated yourself from the Doom community long before you considered throwing money at it.

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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#50

Post by IdeIdoom » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:41 pm

Zakken wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:29 pm
IdeIdoom wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:04 pm
Hmm, this whole "I am lead admin, I do this decision because I can" is breaking that rule
It is Nax's decision, but when the rest of the staff is in agreement with it, alongside the majority of the community, that gives it a lot more validation than you think. Staff should reserve the right to remove major liabilities to the community without the need of a rule telling them to do so, and trying to shift the discussion towards a path of rule semantics seems like a dishonest attempt to invalidate all of the grievances caused by said liability.
So you're saying to ignore the rules made for the staff by the staff to go ahead and ban a person, without prior discussion of this decision and whether or not they are in agreement; it's a power abusing decision.
It is Nax's decision, it doesn't mean it makes him right.
Spoiler: (Open)
There is a story in a small little show about stories about cats, crabs, bats, snails and such where it talks about how the majority wins even though the majority is in the wrong for doing so.
Also who are you to judge who makes part of the majority of the community? And 6 or so people make up the the majority? Wow. Nice projecting.
Zakken wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:29 pm
IdeIdoom wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:04 pm
Many users are way worse than what Mobius has done in this thread but they get a free pass?

You guys defending Mobius sure have a lot of mystery individuals who are supposedly worse for the community than he has ever been! Care to share some light on who they are?
Actual pests like the ones mentioned by Decay? It's not a secret.
Zakken wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:29 pm
IdeIdoom wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:04 pm
Even decay has been awfully "vocal" in a civil thread
Given how Mobius was many times worse in discussions for the past years, I personally believe he had it coming to him.
>Past years
>Not in this thread
>I only mentioned decay in this thread
Nice, moving the goal post. Try again.
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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#51

Post by werewindle » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:45 pm

Mobius wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:55 pm
So you're telling me paying our talent is bad?
I took the liberty of pinpointing the precise moment you went full Mobius to the dear reader. Lies, twisting, roleplaying good intentions... libel?

When I'm comfortable with the tourney format I'm running, I'll gladly pay the prizes out of my pocket again. I don't need a sugar daddy that will march me around the corners for peanuts, telling me who to serve and who to shun. Heck, I don't want one! Pay your own tourneys, but you can't buy ME to run them.

I'm sure you will have a quick rebuttal, but I sadly can't stay for the back-n-forth. I need to go back to killing Doom with our next FFA tournament. Ta!

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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#52

Post by Mobius » Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:58 pm

werewindle wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:45 pm
Mobius wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:55 pm
So you're telling me paying our talent is bad?
I took the liberty of pinpointing the precise moment you went full Mobius to the dear reader. Lies, twisting, roleplaying good intentions... libel?

When I'm comfortable with the tourney format I'm running, I'll gladly pay the prizes out of my pocket again. I don't need a sugar daddy that will march me around the corners for peanuts, telling me who to serve and who to shun. Heck, I don't want one! Pay your own tourneys, but you can't buy ME to run them.

I'm sure you will have a quick rebuttal, but I sadly can't stay for the back-n-forth. I need to go back to killing Doom with our next FFA tournament. Ta!
All that is speculative why don't you produce a log or a screenshot instead of inferring my intent. I put up the money. You turned it down so I went elsewhere. That's it. Door closed.

You do you and your tournaments then that's fine. I am not there. Good. You have an issue with me bringing in money and trying to get something done. Again, I was told no. What am I suppose to do then? I took it and just walked without a fuss. Everything you are adding from here on is either irrelevant or flame-bait. The fact is that 1k was for a CTF league thing. That fell through so
http://cutstuff.net/forum/index.php?topic=11182.0
it went into this cause I wasn't told no.

I do things for the community and I asked, "Hey I want this let's do it," if I am told yes then we'll work it out.. if no then what? The idea of buying it from you is that if you are going to sit on something good then I'll give you money for it, run it myself, and then build from there. As the Multiplayer Doom Federation I believed it would have been a nexus for related doom events whether ran by you or otherwise, but it turns out because I'm Mobius it isn't approved for whatever reason.

You keep doing you. I'll just do me, but don't act out pretending that money was some silly-dough I invented from thin air meant to do anything more than generate activity and interest. That's a disservice to the stuff I have done if not for myself then for other people involved.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
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Re: Goodbye Mobius

#53

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:26 pm

Zakken wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:29 pm
Ru5tK1ng wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:56 pm
And I'm actually in the NJ mod channel where it seems at least once a week there is always an issue with some of the common names. Shane has been making a hard effort to clean up priv. However, going by nax's policy, I see no reason why repeat offenders wouldn't be considered for removal. So unlike you, I actually have insider knowledge of NJ moderation.
The difference here is that your source of information is no more than hearsay, whereas most of the time, I'm actually in the server seeing the events unfolding. Even still, one incident a week isn't too bad in my opinion... Although I'm also of the belief that punishments should be harsher, because repeat offenders not learning their lesson seems to be a recurring thing here!
"Hearsay". You mean actual logs and discussion. I'm not going to call upon the other mods to come vouch for me because this point is irrelevant. My point is just because individuals are behaving themselves, doesn't mean you do not look into the past. It was a common occurrence that many people were on good behavior for a short time period and then reverted back to their ways. At this point we are giving out month long and several week long bans to people. After all these years, I see no reason to keep up that silly ban after ban game. After all, Nax and others are judging Mobius on past events, intent and overall value. I see no reason why this criteria cannot be extended to other unsightly individuals. That is why I assert if Nax is going to do 1, he should do them all. Either do it right or not at all. There is no room for a half-assed job. There are people on board with this policy so what is the issue?

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