Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

General discussion of the port and Doom-related chat.
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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#21

Post by HateDaddy » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:19 pm

Irrelevant.
But it's not irrelevant, this was the most preferred setup during those times at the prime years of dueling. It was accepted by most competitive players as acceptable. If you suddenly don't like it now, that's fine but as I stated you didn't complain about it then. Your feelings are irrelevant though, but history tells us these were accepted settings regardless of where you stand.
No, I want it to be called what it is. Simple as that. I know you're part of the Jkist Defense Force, but you're reading far to deeply into this.
There's really not much to read into here. If it makes you feel better to call me the JKisr Defense Force, okay my dude. I mean, if you hated the settings so much back then or even now, you can host your own league/tournament. I'm using settings that worked for the most organized dueling league this game has ever seen so there's a logical reason for me to use and support these settings. You're basing your principals purely off of disdain for a particular player, which is petty and silly.
And the small list of events I listed are times when said players departed. Yes both ports served their role years ago, but in the interest of competition, it would still be better for 1 central place. Odamex tried to be that place, but obviously it didn't work out as seeing everyone still fights over 3 ports.
There's never going to be 1 port of solidarity. There are too many egos that get in the way with their own agendas. That's why odamex failed and it's why zd chased its competitive players away. I'm sure ST had its own shenigans back in the day too but I wasn't involved in that community much so I can't say.

This is why the best we can do as players looking to host leagues/tournaments is find the most stable port. Considering Zandro still has lagged BFG and BFG is a huge part of d5m1, I decided to use ZD as the default port.
Last edited by HateDaddy on Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#22

Post by HateDaddy » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:22 pm

Mobius wrote:
HateDaddy wrote:
Konda wrote:
HateDaddy wrote:
Wow a 20+ year old game has bugs, who knew?
Well, your argument was that ZD performs better than Zan in duels. I've been playing Skulltag/Zandronum for a long time and I don't think I've ever seen something like that happen here with classic weapons.
For some of the more traditional maps, I believe it does. Different ports have different bugs - I'm sure I could find something to nitpick with Zandro. I'm also not proclaiming that ZD is perfect but between the two, at very basic levels of doom, ZD is still much more reliable.
You know it's funny how lucky you are I can't find Watermelon's videos of typical Zdaemon ssg whiffs. I remember blockmap being a huge problem for the port. Do we have to bring up flying corpses, running chainsaws, and even invisible actors of 1.08 and that's tooted as the prime of Zdaemon?
Why would I be lucky? This is a pissing contest I'm not going to engage in because it's stupid. Zandro has plenty of problems too. We could go back and forth all day but to what ends? To prove that all these ports have bugs? Once again, a 20+ year old game has bugs, who knew.

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#23

Post by Sean » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:29 pm

HateDaddy wrote:Once again, a 20+ year old game has bugs, who knew.
Bugs introduced by the 15 year old multiplayer ports… I don't think id wrote ZD's client/server code.

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<Decay> csnxs try being less bitter and actually helpful to the community, thanks

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#24

Post by HateDaddy » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:37 pm

Sean wrote:
HateDaddy wrote:Once again, a 20+ year old game has bugs, who knew.
Bugs introduced by the 15 year old multiplayer ports… I don't think id wrote ZD's client/server code.
Oh let's be honest, oda was in coding for half of that time and was riddled with just as many bugs. Let's be real, for its time, zdaemon was miles ahead of every other port until the last 5 years.

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#25

Post by Sean » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:43 pm

HateDaddy wrote:Oh let's be honest, oda was in coding for half of that time and was riddled with just as many bugs.
Odamex has never been relevant and certainly isn't now.
HateDaddy wrote:Let's be real, for its time, zdaemon was miles ahead of every other port until the last 5 years.
ZDoom 1.23…

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<Decay> csnxs try being less bitter and actually helpful to the community, thanks

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#26

Post by Mobius » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:57 pm

HateDaddy wrote:Why would I be lucky? This is a pissing contest I'm not going to engage in because it's stupid. Zandro has plenty of problems too. We could go back and forth all day but to what ends? To prove that all these ports have bugs? Once again, a 20+ year old game has bugs, who knew.
Huh
HateDaddy wrote:In terms of performance, I certainly think it has drastically improved but ZD is still better for classic dueling stylet
Name things Zdaemon can do better than Zandronum for duels. I'll wait.
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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#27

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:28 am

HateDaddy wrote:
But it's not irrelevant, this was the most preferred setup during those times at the prime years of dueling. It was accepted by most competitive players as acceptable. If you suddenly don't like it now, that's fine but as I stated you didn't complain about it then. Your feelings are irrelevant though, but history tells us these were accepted settings regardless of where you stand.

There's really not much to read into here. If it makes you feel better to call me the JKisr Defense Force, okay my dude. I mean, if you hated the settings so much back then or even now, you can host your own league/tournament. I'm using settings that worked for the most organized dueling league this game has ever seen so there's a logical reason for me to use and support these settings. You're basing your principals purely off of disdain for a particular player, which is petty and silly.
It's obvious you missed my point entirely. I give no shits what tournament settings are ran and you could even do alt-death settings for all I care. My original comment was my dislike of the settings being referred to as NS when there is nothing NS about the ZDDL settings whatsoever. You can't separate J from the ZDDL settings just like you can't separate Ralphis and Odamex. As a result, I am free to make any potshot I want. Additionally the fact the modidoom wad is even being ran is laughable. Mr. Duke.edu was a bit proponent of such things and that's the other part of 'giving into terrorists'. If anything, that wad shouldn't be ran considering not everyone used it back then because not everyone even knew about it (as a result of the hush hush nature of the scene).
And the small list of events I listed are times when said players departed. Yes both ports served their role years ago, but in the interest of competition, it would still be better for 1 central place. Odamex tried to be that place, but obviously it didn't work out as seeing everyone still fights over 3 ports.
There's never going to be 1 port of solidarity. There are too many egos that get in the way with their own agendas. That's why odamex failed and it's why zd chased its competitive players away. I'm sure ST had its own shenigans back in the day too but I wasn't involved in that community much so I can't say.

This is why the best we can do as players looking to host leagues/tournaments is find the most stable port. Considering Zandro still has lagged BFG and BFG is a huge part of d5m1, I decided to use ZD as the default port.
The BFG is a decent point considering the map. But while there might be a much more reliable BFG, people will surely enjoy the dropped shots phenomenon that is still being complained about over 10 years later.

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#28

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:35 am

Name things Zdaemon can do better than Zandronum for duels. I'll wait.
Drop shots

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#29

Post by Catastrophe » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:43 am

Who needs Waters clip when Legion has you covered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OITOaYQe7eI
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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#30

Post by Mobius » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:08 am

Catastrophe wrote:Who needs Waters clip when Legion has you covered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OITOaYQe7eI
A lot of those are misses but good enough. Water had one that was a direct shot completely go blank.
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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#31

Post by Doomkid » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:22 am

All ports have their share of bugs. I've never had this happen to me while playing ZD or Oda, but then again I've had annoying shit happen to me in ZD and Oda that doesn't happen in Zand, so despite being different each port has it's own set of irritating bugs and whatnot. I don't take any sides in this whole shpeel but despite having way better unlagged, I've had way more Zand duels ruined from that irritating desync bug

This is why I thought a cross-port duel tournament might be tough to manage, it would be way better for each port to have separate entrants and you can have a separate winner for each one. People could optionally sign up for 2 or 3 ports if they wanted. That's just how I'd do it though and I haven't got anywhere close to enough patience to deal with that

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#32

Post by Lollipop » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:34 am

I have never had that kind of bug. Have you made sure the devs are aware? The only bug I've ever seen that I can recall was the one that made aow turrets jitter when placed at ledges.

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#33

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:06 pm

One has to only wonder what type of netcode would Dr. Sean have developed if a chunk of the Odamex IDL players didn't chase him off with their near daily bitching and shit talking about the port. Probably better for his sanity anyway to leave.

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#34

Post by Mobius » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:29 pm

Doomkid wrote:All ports have their share of bugs. I've never had this happen to me while playing ZD or Oda, but then again I've had annoying shit happen to me in ZD and Oda
I've never had this happen to me in Zandronum and I was around when we had whiffing BFG shots a year or two back.
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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#35

Post by Mobius » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:53 pm

I'm going to contribute to the double posting

Zdaemon handling spectator bodies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1nGU8HdEjs

Zdaemon being a high performing dueling port
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGkJAiniiT0
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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#36

Post by JKist3 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:21 pm

I think I need to clear some things up.

The settings that Hatred is running this tournament with and that the ZDDL uses are actually the default behaviors of zdoom 1.22/1.23 which is what all the original client/server source ports inherited when they were first created (csdoom, zdaemon, skulltag). All modern multiplayer doom was played like this
until 2004 when dmflags matching the behavior of the original doom2.exe were added to the ports. From then on server administrators could choose to continue to run the zdoom behavior or to run a strict emulation of the original game. It’s of course a controversial issue. The zdoom 1.22 settings won out in North America at least and as a result continued to be the competitive standard. While I think that the zdoom 1.22 settings are better for the game, they are not “JKist doom” as they were around before I was. It’s 2017 now and it has been 17 years since csdoom was created and this all began.

Rustking: Obviously the real issue here has nothing to do with game settings and everything to do with you holding a huge amount of hatred towards me. I’ve seen you slander me for years over the internet and I’m a bit puzzled with regards to it because I haven’t had much interaction with you ever. For what it’s worth, I’ve always thought you were a very good player and I sincerely appreciate your efforts in contributing to the zandronum project. For the good of the community I’d like to get along with you. If you can set aside whatever you have against me, lets be friends.

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#37

Post by Jenova » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:28 pm

JKist3 wrote:I think I need to clear some things up.

The settings that Hatred is running this tournament with and that the ZDDL uses are actually the default behaviors of zdoom 1.22/1.23 which is what all the original client/server source ports inherited when they were first created (csdoom, zdaemon, skulltag). All modern multiplayer doom was played like this
until 2004 when dmflags matching the behavior of the original doom2.exe were added to the ports. From then on server administrators could choose to continue to run the zdoom behavior or to run a strict emulation of the original game. It’s of course a controversial issue. The zdoom 1.22 settings won out in North America at least and as a result continued to be the competitive standard. While I think that the zdoom 1.22 settings are better for the game, they are not “JKist doom” as they were around before I was. It’s 2017 now and it has been 17 years since csdoom was created and this all began.

Rustking: Obviously the real issue here has nothing to do with game settings and everything to do with you holding a huge amount of hatred towards me. I’ve seen you slander me for years over the internet and I’m a bit puzzled with regards to it because I haven’t had much interaction with you ever. For what it’s worth, I’ve always thought you were a very good player and I sincerely appreciate your efforts in contributing to the zandronum project. For the good of the community I’d like to get along with you. If you can set aside whatever you have against me, lets be friends.
Zandronum is full of bitter people who haven't actually achieved much competitively giving their unwarranted input, it's best to ignore it.

You probably won't find a whole lot of people on Zandronum willing to play though, because the players are generally unreliable, and the competitive player pool is much smaller than it once used to be.

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#38

Post by Mobius » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:54 pm

Jenova wrote:
Zandronum is full of bitter people who haven't actually achieved much competitively giving their unwarranted input, it's best to ignore it.
But Rustking is from Zdaemon.
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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#39

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:35 pm

Jkist3 wrote:The zdoom 1.22 settings won out in North America at least and as a result continued to be the competitive standard. While I think that the zdoom 1.22 settings are better for the game, they are not “JKist doom” as they were around before I was.
They won out largely in part due to ZDDL pandering in the late 00s powered by your subject preference of those settings being 'better for the game'. Of course with the fall of the ZD tournaments from former glory, it was inevitable there was going to be a shift. Even though csDoom has it's place in history, it is irrelevant now and for better or for worse they are more commonly known as ZDDL settings which of course is your brain child. Jkist doom refers to this as well as the fact you never accepted duel challenges on OS settings.
Jkist3 wrote:Rustking: Obviously the real issue here has nothing to do with game settings and everything to do with you holding a huge amount of hatred towards me. I’ve seen you slander me for years over the internet and I’m a bit puzzled with regards to it because I haven’t had much interaction with you ever.
Brain parasites? I had plenty of interaction with you when I was in SIN between the time I started playing and the NS vs SIN clanwar. Part of the animosity I held until around 2011 was due to you making the setting up period of the war extremely unpleasant. Near the end every meeting centered around you trying to screw us over in some way in order to benefit your clan. Yeah it's competition so it's fair, just as it is fair as I can say fuck you.

What you and Hatred seem to misunderstand is that I neither hate you or like you. It's called neutrality. I have no problem ever telling people you are easily the top 3 duelers when you actively play. You know how to win and you've won many times. But I also have no problem saying you're a bitch for dodging challenges or stupid as hell for things you've did or said. You have to learn to take the good with the bad. Or not learn, it doesn't matter to me at all.

Jenova wrote:Zandronum is full of bitter people who haven't actually achieved much competitively giving their unwarranted input, it's best to ignore it.
Too bad I've actually won tournaments.

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Re: Official NA D5M1 Tournament Sign-Up Thread

#40

Post by HateDaddy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:42 am

I am extending the tournament deadline by 1 week until October 1st!

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