Capo DDOS attacks on Zandronum tournaments

[Ænima]

uh oh, don't drop the soap, Jenova. you're going to the pokey.


jk I don't think a federal court would even waste their time with this shit.

[AlexMax]

I actually had 95% of this post prepared a day ago, but the...interesting things that happened in the Best Ever thread were a slight distraction.

I feel like I should shoulder at least some of the responsibility in regards to Jenova. I was running FUNCRUSHER back when the DDoS'es happened, and I had knowledge of at least some of the DDoSing that Jenova had done - I don't recall exactly which situations I had knowledge of, but it was at least of one, probably Legion. Regardless of what was going on with the staff, I could have banned him on my servers under my own volition, and I should have. But I didn't.

That is an unacceptable failing on my part and I feel my players deserves better.

Jenova has already voluntarily given up his administrative duties at FUNCRUSHER due to his decision to be more hands-off with his servers. He will thus be extremely hands off with my servers, as I am banning him for a period of four months.

Here is my reasoning. To me, DDoSing is as serious a problem as cheating, perhaps even more serious. Cheaters can ruin people's play experience a server at a time. DDoSers can ruin a single player's experience across ports and games, many people's experience on a server cluster, or even an entire port at a time if they attack the master, and if they're smart (Capo was not, naturally), there is no IP trail to go off of. You don't need to know the internals of the game or brave a cheat forum looking for a cheat, you can just pay for any old booter and ruin somebody's day, just like that. Thus, I believe that DDoSing somebody is worth a year off from the game, just like a cheat.

So why four months instead of a year? This is where the specific facts come into play:

• It was 3-4 years ago, and thus far we have no reason to suspect that he has continued this behavior. And if anybody was in a position to DDoS somebody, it would be Jenova, since he ran Best Ever and thus has access to vast number of IP addresses through server logs, yet there has been nothing.
• He appears to know what he did was wrong. As he mentioned, he had to deal with it on his own servers, so he knows full well how a DDoS can ruin somebody's day.
• He has contributed a considerable amount to the port that can not be discounted. He programmed Best Ever from scratch and ran it out of his own pocket for many years. Despite the recent drama, he has also offered to help the transition to a new host and set up its replacement.
• As far as I know, he was a teenager at the time. There is a reason why you are not considered an adult in the United States until you turn 18, and that's because your brain is not fully developed and you are prone to making stupid decisions without realizing the full consequences or ramifications.

But why four months instead of a few weeks or no punishment, just a warning?

• I simply can not rationalize the seriousness of a DDoS with a shorter punishment.
• I feel like I let the players on my servers down by not addressing the problem at the time. Giving him a comparative slap on the wrist might seem disingenuous and just didn't feel right to me.
• Part of the punishment is deterrence, and I don't think a too-short punishment is much of a deterrence, no matter how many extenuating circumstances you throw in. Four months is still a third of a year.

So that's how I arrived at four months. Due to his contrition in regards to his actions, and the apparent lack of any concrete evidence of more recent attacks, I am leaving the door open at the end of his punishment to administer my servers again if he so chooses.

I have a question for those of you who think Jenova should be punished. What do you see as an appropriate punishment?

Months? Years? Permanently?

Considering I'm not a staff member nor involved in any type of decision making in regards to punishments, I don't see any reason to throw out some arbitrary number. However, I will attest that your choices of years and permanently should be instantly eliminated. Those amounts are reserved for peope like Capo. If you want a concrete number regarding Jenova, go speak with the staff.

I do not care what the staff have to say on this subject. I hope that the staff does not blindly follow my lead, but can come to their own conclusions about what to do about him. I very specifically asked the opinion of those who wanted to see him punished, and I was not looking for sentencing guidelines. The answers you two gave were instead telling of your motives and - dare I say it - reflected well on them.

[Mobius]

The answers you two gave were instead telling of your motives and - dare I say it - reflected well on them.

My intention was just giving culpability and responsibility for the action of a player. This is why I offered some sort of warning or penance because if we're going to attack Capo for past actions (deserving) then the same applies. The former staff did absolutely nothing about it and I feel as though it wasn't totally worth throwing him in a large legal problem over, but my ISP can feel differently and I am not about to throw some kid in some sort of irl trouble because he wanted to be an asshat. He even said he did it to other Ragnarok host but that's HIS problem and no one else

[Nati46]

The answers you two gave were instead telling of your motives and - dare I say it - reflected well on them.

My intention was just giving culpability and responsibility for the action of a player. This is why I offered some sort of warning or penance because if we're going to attack Capo for past actions (deserving) then the same applies. The former staff did absolutely nothing about it and I feel as though it wasn't totally worth throwing him in a large legal problem over, but my ISP can feel differently and I am not about to throw some kid in some sort of irl trouble because he wanted to be an asshat. He even said he did it to other Ragnarok host but that's HIS problem and no one else

LOL you really think that you could get a solid lawsuit off this thing if you wanted to?
No court would bother for something as ridiculous as this I guarantee, especially considering the lack of concrete evidence (forum posts aren't concrete) and the likely statute of limitations making this irrelevant. Get real, way more severe cases than this are closed out of lack of public interest etc. Thus legal aspect here is irrelevant so stop waving it as if you could really get him in trouble.

And tbh Alex, I think the only reason for you banning him is because of pressure, the subject was brought up on the thread, until then it was virtually forgotten and irrelevant until some people who really don't like jen decided to bring it up as a counterargument to Mobius' behaviour (refer to my post on the other thread) trying to get Jen in trouble. Lo and behold, they have actually succeeded.

[IdeIdoom]

And tbh Alex, I think the only reason for you banning him is because of pressure, the subject was brought up on the thread, until then it was virtually forgotten and irrelevant until some people who really don't like jen decided to bring it up as a counterargument to Mobius' behaviour (refer to my post on the other thread) trying to get Jen in trouble. Lo and behold, they have actually succeeded.

Even though Jen started it all, but keep your bias against Mobius just because he trolled you.

[Nati46]

And tbh Alex, I think the only reason for you banning him is because of pressure, the subject was brought up on the thread, until then it was virtually forgotten and irrelevant until some people who really don't like jen decided to bring it up as a counterargument to Mobius' behaviour (refer to my post on the other thread) trying to get Jen in trouble. Lo and behold, they have actually succeeded.

Even though Jen started it all, but keep your bias against Mobius just because he trolled you.

Started how? by informing staff? Eventually they banned him so that should tell you something.
Yea explain my 'bias' by refuting my points, otherwise you're pretty irrelevant here no offence.

[ZZYZX]

Even though Jen started it all, but keep your bias against Mobius just because he trolled you.

Started how? by informing staff? Eventually they banned him so that should tell you something.
Yea explain my 'bias' by refuting my points, otherwise you're pretty irrelevant here no offence.

Started by embarking on a fullblown drama crusade against Mobius, Razgriz and Decay, which spread across two threads, six channels and god knows what else.
Besides, had he not done that, had he not continued responding in this (and another) thread and making confessions about his past complete with outright shittalking the staff, the ban wouldn't have a reason to exist.
While he was right, the method chosen isn't.

[AlexMax]

And tbh Alex, I think the only reason for you banning him is because of pressure, the subject was brought up on the thread, until then it was virtually forgotten and irrelevant until some people who really don't like jen decided to bring it up as a counterargument to Mobius' behaviour (refer to my post on the other thread) trying to get Jen in trouble. Lo and behold, they have actually succeeded.

There was a reason why I asked Mobius and Rust how long they thought Jenova should be banned for. I was not looking for sentencing guidelines from them. I wanted to know their agendas. Permanent or multi-year bans were the poison pill, if either one of them had mentioned it, I could only assume that they were digging up old dirt to try and permanently remove somebody they hated from the community. But neither one of them did. Not that it would have changed anything, but I wanted to know if they were running their agendas or simply wanted to be made whole.

Rust also happened to be on teamspeak with me a few minutes before I decided to pass my sentence not to try and argue one way or the other, but because he literally had no idea what I thought of the drama. He did not know the contents of my punishment before I posted it, or that it was even a punishment.

If anything put pressure on me, it was the fact that the staff banned Capo. As you recall, my first post in this thread was to let sleeping dogs lie. But once that was off the table, I did a lot of soul searching, realized that Capo really did deserve what he got, and I simply could not rationalize to myself why Jenova should be treated any differently. Not only that, I felt guilty over letting it slide. You can re-read my previous post if you genuinely want to know why i did what I did and the things weighing for and against.

And it's not just Jenova. If a certain other Zandronum player ever rears his head again, I will punish him similarly, for cheating, coming up with a cockamamie story to excuse it, and then admitting to making it all up without realizing I was in the same Teamspeak channel listening to him. That's something else I should have nipped in the bud years ago as well.

Finally, don't worry about your enemies digging up dirt on you to try and get banned off FUNCRUSHER. Unless you've cheated, DDoS'ed somebody, or have done something else equally heinous, you can rest easy.

[Mobius]

There was a reason why I asked Mobius and Rust how long they thought Jenova should be banned for. I was not looking for sentencing guidelines from them. I wanted to know their agendas. Permanent or multi-year bans were the poison pill, if either one of them had mentioned it, I could only assume that they were digging up old dirt to try and permanently remove somebody they hated from the community. But neither one of them did. Not that it would have changed anything, but I wanted to know if they were running their agendas or simply wanted to be made whole..

This is essentially the critical point of our dilemma, but I didn't pick the low road to fulfill my objective or agenda if any. As I said I genuinely do not want to harm the guy in any permanent or everlasting fashion, and I felt the absolute same back then and he was an actual kid. I am older than Jenova and much, much more experienced and the last thing I want to go to sleep is knowing I ruined his life in a conceivable way he cannot walk away from; however, there's Capo looming over and you have to wonder about culpability and liability issues are involved. I just vouched for a warning to him.. maybe a little shake. It is in my posts.

This is the absolute final post I am making in this thread, but i do want to address one final thing to Nati and tell him to take it with me in PM or IRC if he truly feels agitated or wronged.

you really think that you could get a solid lawsuit off this thing if you wanted to?

That's not up to me to decide. That is up to my ISP to determine the amount of "damages" they have "suffered" by a user under another "ISP" who used their internet to launch multiple denial of services to not only single users but rival host. That is all I am going to say on the issue, but I, myself, won't be pursuing shit (I won't inform them and haven't neither has anyone I know personally and don't intend on telling someone to do so on any behalf of mine so this is not a threat, warning, or blackmail). I, will, however answer questions truthfully to be best of my ability if asked. I am completely and 100 percent compliant.