Capo gets banned for cheating
- Doomkid
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
Wait, isn't all this just a second reason to ban Capo? For his brief tenure in the Doomworld multiplayer section, he managed to shit talk endlessly and start conflict with just about anyone over just about anything, while simultaneously having a massive unjustified ego. Looks like there's sufficient evidence he was at the very least looking for cheats/hacks, which honestly is a pretty bad offense on its own.
If he really is cheating now, he's simply hit an ever lower low..
If he really is cheating now, he's simply hit an ever lower low..
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
Well since we are no longer sure where we stand on this anymore, we are getting the demos re-reviewed again. For now, capo is unbanned till proven that he has cheated. Also I am going to set up some sort of community watchdog for shit like this. This group/watchdog will hopefully consist of community members who have a keen eye for this. I will announce more details once I get a decent draft as to what I want for this.
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
So there is justice after all.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
*raises hand for Zandronum neighborhood watch*
Naturally I can only be on the night shift, but still.
Naturally I can only be on the night shift, but still.
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
He said a watchdog not a circle jerkDoomkid wrote:*raises hand for Zandronum neighborhood watch*
Naturally I can only be on the night shift, but still.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
I'm willing to help you out with this. Pretty much everyone I've called out in the past ended up being confirmed cheaters.mifu wrote:Well since we are no longer sure where we stand on this anymore, we are getting the demos re-reviewed again. For now, capo is unbanned till proven that he has cheated. Also I am going to set up some sort of community watchdog for shit like this. This group/watchdog will hopefully consist of community members who have a keen eye for this. I will announce more details once I get a decent draft as to what I want for this.
Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
Can someone PM me decay's POV demo?Decay wrote:More fishy to me are the following things:
Capo's demo has no puffs only from him, everybody else has puffs. My demos shows he has puffs. Map14 has some weird aiming going on, and there is a 4 kill streak 30 seconds into the map that looks exactly the same on both demos, where the crosshair hits the center of the targets via a lock-on. If you look at my demo, many kills it looks like he isn't actually aiming on the person except for a few strange ones (lag/ping difference, the "raziel effect"). Map15 shows he has snap-ons, but when the target dies it jerks off aim very quickly and looks very strange, not smooth at all.
For those unaware of how an aimbot can work, it can a) only work when you hold a bound button, this means it is toggle-able. The player does not have to fire while actually using the bot either. b) The field of view can be set so the player can lock onto a target if the target is within a particular range of the crosshair. This can be set from 1-180 degrees (you have to aim onto the person before locking on (1) or the target can be fully behind you (180)).
I don't know whats up with the puffs maybe a dev can give some feedback on this?
- A lot of people aim with the ssg by snapping on to the opponent in doom, you never see someone tracking the opposite player all the time with an ssg out. Can you say when these shots happens in terms of time left on the map?
- It's normal he is off in your POV demo, that's why you always need a demo of his POV.
- He has a two aim lock-ups (aiming at nothing at these time) but these happen exactly when a player with high velocity bumps into him.
- His CG tracking is not unusually strong on map14 or map15, those players didn't even dodge.
It's hard to tell if someone is cheating on a hectic dm demo. You can find suspicious things if you want to find suspicious things. If you look at a demo from any good player in DM you are bound to find something that's not right if you really want to. Capo just shit talked after he stomped a pub and people took this too seriously.
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
The demo lacks proper evidence that he is using an aimbot. Most of the questionable shots I saw were mainly in the beginning, but those were due to desyncs with the demo and his ping. Most aimbots operate as tracking the closest enemy within sight and capo definitely did not exhibit those behaviors. Don't just view the ssg as the go to for hackers, how one performs with other weapons besides is also just as important.
As for him simply admitting that he is hacking this is just a typical capo comment meant to dig for negative feedback, however should be an offense on its own if players are now looking over demos to fact check his incredibly inappropriate boasts. And asking for hacks may be bad, but asking is not the same as posting or using hacks, like you won't see someone getting banned asking for porn sites, still just capo being capo.
I wouldn't mind helping out with demos I have experience prior when I was working with cyber when he was master admin for about a year as well as demo reviewing when I was admin on funcrusher.
As for him simply admitting that he is hacking this is just a typical capo comment meant to dig for negative feedback, however should be an offense on its own if players are now looking over demos to fact check his incredibly inappropriate boasts. And asking for hacks may be bad, but asking is not the same as posting or using hacks, like you won't see someone getting banned asking for porn sites, still just capo being capo.
I wouldn't mind helping out with demos I have experience prior when I was working with cyber when he was master admin for about a year as well as demo reviewing when I was admin on funcrusher.
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
huhMobius wrote:He said a watchdog not a circle jerkDoomkid wrote:*raises hand for Zandronum neighborhood watch*
Naturally I can only be on the night shift, but still.
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
I think the latest one just fires when the target (enemy player) is on the center of the screen or whatever the bot presumes to be the center of your weapon. Essentially it just fires at the most "optimal" time a player is in sight (it clicks fire for you). Now whether or not it's 100 percent is unknown cause I only tested it once in shoot.wad with a bot offline and at certain angular motions I'd miss.Shane wrote:The demo lacks proper evidence that he is using an aimbot. Most of the questionable shots I saw were mainly in the beginning, but those were due to desyncs with the demo and his ping. Most aimbots operate as tracking the closest enemy within sight and capo definitely did not exhibit those behaviors. Don't just view the ssg as the go to for hackers, how one performs with other weapons besides is also just as important.
As far as the watchdog group I'd nominate the following
- Jenova
- Bluewizard
- Cyber
- Razgriz
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
Definitely a good point but I think it's useless to compare modern hacks to (insert port)hook because it's pretty likely that they're completely different developers. It was easy to catch cheaters before because there was only one cheat and it was publicly accessible. If there was ever any doubt that someone was wallhacking/aimbotting, it was just a simple task of loading the hack yourself and comparing playstyles.Decay wrote:skullhack, the most popular aimbot/wallhack for skulltag and probably early versions of zandronum did not operate this way. It locked onto whoever was closest to your center of view. This is demonstration of poor knowledge at best.Shane wrote: Most aimbots operate as tracking the closest enemy within sight and capo definitely did not exhibit those behaviors.
Now, with no public cheats and apparently a bunch of private ones, this becomes much harder. There's people offering $$ for developers to make private cheats for them on Zandronum, although I'm not sure how legit that actually is. I'd suggest creating an irc channel dedicated to having a select group of people review demos of potential cheaters separate from the staff, since it appears being a staff member and being good at the game are mutually exclusive on Zandronum.
Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
This is a triggerbot. It fires when you move your cross over an enemy (or when an enemy runs into your cross). There is no aim locking or dodgy tracking which means if it's used right it becomes really hard to detect by eye. Only AC software can stop these kinds of hacks. The signs of walling and too good of a institutional knowledge are still there though.Mobius wrote: I think the latest one just fires when the target (enemy player) is on the center of the screen or whatever the bot presumes to be the center of your weapon. Essentially it just fires at the most "optimal" time a player is in sight (it clicks fire for you). Now whether or not it's 100 percent is unknown cause I only tested it once in shoot.wad with a bot offline and at certain angular motions I'd miss..
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
You are literally reiterating what I posted.Frits wrote:This is a triggerbot. It fires when you move your cross over an enemy (or when an enemy runs into your cross). There is no aim locking or dodgy tracking which means if it's used right it becomes really hard to detect by eye. Only AC software can stop these kinds of hacks. The signs of walling and too good of a institutional knowledge are still there though.Mobius wrote: I think the latest one just fires when the target (enemy player) is on the center of the screen or whatever the bot presumes to be the center of your weapon. Essentially it just fires at the most "optimal" time a player is in sight (it clicks fire for you). Now whether or not it's 100 percent is unknown cause I only tested it once in shoot.wad with a bot offline and at certain angular motions I'd miss..
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
I'm still not sure exactly how these hacks work specifically in Zandronum.
Do they exploit clientside prediction in some way? How much are clients "allowed" to know about other players' positions? How much memory has to be scanned to find this information and is there a way for the developers to obfuscate it or make its location dynamic?
Do they exploit clientside prediction in some way? How much are clients "allowed" to know about other players' positions? How much memory has to be scanned to find this information and is there a way for the developers to obfuscate it or make its location dynamic?
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Doom64: Unabsolved: New weapons, monsters, and gameplay features for coop !
ZandroSkins: a pack made by our community
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
Clients know the positions of all players. Depriving the clients of this knowledge would break things, like spying in client side demos.Ænima wrote:Do they exploit clientside prediction in some way? How much are clients "allowed" to know about other players' positions?
Since the source is open, you can't really do any obfuscation.Ænima wrote:How much memory has to be scanned to find this information and is there a way for the developers to obfuscate it or make its location dynamic?
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
Even ZDaemon with all it's closed source is easy to make a hack for. Just saying. Although, in case of ZDaemon, they really seem to be obsessed with obfuscation of master server protocol which looks like horrible mess in the disassembly, yet do nothing to prevent the hacks, even though they don't need to pull any code from ZDoom and as such can introduce the required drastic changes to their code...
Either way, apparently with the client becoming opensource there are LESS hackers now, most likely because now coding hacks isn't of any interest, as anyone with VS2005 can do it.
Either way, apparently with the client becoming opensource there are LESS hackers now, most likely because now coding hacks isn't of any interest, as anyone with VS2005 can do it.
quality DoomExplorer hackeringFilystyn wrote:Do you know what windows.h is? It's D, DWORD.
overcomplicated ZDoom grenade
random Doom things
GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix
Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
Ah yes, thank you for the clarification. I forgot about demos. They also need to know where to render other players, right?Torr Samaho wrote:Clients know the positions of all players. Depriving the clients of this knowledge would break things, like spying in client side demos.Ænima wrote:Do they exploit clientside prediction in some way? How much are clients "allowed" to know about other players' positions?
Since the source is open, you can't really do any obfuscation.Ænima wrote:How much memory has to be scanned to find this information and is there a way for the developers to obfuscate it or make its location dynamic?
Anyways I don't think it would be entirely foolproof or even worth the developers' time to pursue anti-hack methods, in that case. I guess it's just a matter of catching those who do it. Eventually they'll screw up when it really counts.
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
Exactly. Otherwise, coop spying or free spectate mode wouldn't work in demos. Also, even if you'd axe these demo features, you'd still have to have some leeway on visibility checks (allowing wallhacks to show players slightly before they get in sight) to prevent adverse side effects for honest player (like players seemingly appear out of nowhere when they get in sight).Ænima wrote: Ah yes, thank you for the clarification. I forgot about demos. They also need to know where to render other players, right?
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Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
Now the ultimate question.. Who's the next cheater? :}
Just a veteran ex-Doomer. Temporarily can't play it online anymore but i still like to see others hanging out in the community.
Re: Capo gets banned for cheating
Zandronum is open source. A cheat does not have to scan any memory or hex edit anything. You just edit the code and make a cheat build. And thus we also cannot obfuscate it, or prevent cheats from being made in any way. The only anti-cheat is the community. This was a drawback that was accepted when the project went open source in the first place, as hacks cannot be stopped anyway.Ænima wrote:How much memory has to be scanned to find this information and is there a way for the developers to obfuscate it or make its location dynamic?
I don't have the time or skill to review the demos myself, but I'd say that if capo's demos lack puffs it sounds somewhat suspicious. The client is, by default, responsible for rendering puffs. Therefore if there aren't any puffs at all, it is indicative of a modified client.
I think he has a point. From my understanding, most cheats for Skulltag were made just for the hell of it. With Zandronum being open source, there's no "hell" anymore in that. I guess that's why there aren't much public cheats around and this crap is being spread in private.Decay wrote:I think there are more cheaters than you might realize but just have not been caught. In any case, thanks for your... insightful and useful... post.ZZYZX wrote:Even ZDaemon with all it's closed source is easy to make a hack for. Just saying. Although, in case of ZDaemon, they really seem to be obsessed with obfuscation of master server protocol which looks like horrible mess in the disassembly, yet do nothing to prevent the hacks, even though they don't need to pull any code from ZDoom and as such can introduce the required drastic changes to their code...
Either way, apparently with the client becoming opensource there are LESS hackers now, most likely because now coding hacks isn't of any interest, as anyone with VS2005 can do it.