Zandronum

Now, I meet a lot of servers that ask for spawn protection to be disabled, because they often complain spawn protection isn't fair. But, before I'd like to swell too much on other's thoughts, I'd like to mention my own.

If I turn on spawn protection on a server, everyone complains about it, and I understand, because players under spawn protection can shoot other players. However, if I turn off spawn protection, it's difficult to spawn and sometimes even play on some servers, because it's easily possible to camp a spawn point and wait for players to cycle to it, or just listen for a spawn in the vicinity.

Now, there are problems with both of these methods and some benefits to them, too that I noticed:

Spawn protection on:
+ Allows players to get at least a weapon and get back in the game.
+ Allows the game to be based on aiming at others.
- Can be annoying at times when you shoot a protected player because you can't tell.
- Lets the protected player take advantage of active players.

Spawn protection off:
+ Not as annoying, everyone and everything it shootable; less to worry about.
- Lets the active players take advantage of the spawned players.

What I'm trying to say, is that they're both equally fine ways to play the game, but they both have their own issues. Some people say that spawn-killing is normal; think about it for a bit, on that player that freshly spawns, and whether they get a chance to actively take part in the game or not. I'm not saying this is wrong, because on a competitive level, you might want to agree that all is fair play on spawn-killing. But, what if you and some others just want to have a good game of deathmatch instead for once? Spawn protection makes for good casual play, as it gives the spawned player a gracing period to get themselves oriented in the game again.

The one big reason spawn protection is so hated, in my honest opinion, is because it's really broken. There's no indication to another player that you're protected for a little bit, and the protected player can use it to their advantage. I can understand why it's frustrating.

What can be done about this?

Being able to change the duration would be nice, as it is you're invincible for around 4-5 seconds, if I recall correctly. That's an eternity in Doom, but being able to set it to say, 1 second would prevent spawn camping, but still not have a map full of invincible blinking players. As it is now, I can pick up a shotgun, go have a sandwhich, take a dump, then pick up a BFG/megaarmor by the time my invincibility wears off, it just feels excessive. I would like it if the default server setting had it turned off altogether, since that's how the rules have always been in Doom DM.

It'd be best if you lost spawn protection automatically, say, half a second (at most) after picking up a weapon.

fox wrote:+ Allows the game to be based on aiming at others.

I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. From my years of experience, the only time spawn fragging becomes a problem is if you purposely load small maps and expect it to work with dozens of people.

fox wrote:+ Allows players to get at least a weapon and get back in the game.

To be honest, that's really a problem of the map itself and not really spawn protection. I'd highly discourage you from playing any DM wads with pistol spawns if you want a fun time. Otherwise you'll just get pissed off because you don't have a good weapon.

fox wrote:The one big reason spawn protection is so hated, in my honest opinion, is because it's really broken. There's no indication to another player that you're protected for a little bit, and the protected player can use it to their advantage. I can understand why it's frustrating.

Here's my main reasons as to why it should stay off.

• No visible indication of invulnerability
• They can fire while they're invulnerable
• Makes the game slow paced/breaks flow.

DoomKid wrote:Being able to change the duration would be nice, as it is you're invincible for around 4-5 seconds, if I recall correctly.

That's exaggerating it a lot, whenever I test my mods offline its about a second or two at most. But yeah I agree it should be off by default.


To be honest, the only place spawn protection should be on is Last man standing/Team last man standing as you only have one life to work with.

Getting spawn fragged is your punishment for dying. Why should people be allowed to be invincible and pick up a weapon and fire back? Stop dying and stop mashing the use key as soon as you die and you won't have to worry about spawn fragging.

The fact that everyone in your server complains should be a red flag that spawn protection is a terrible idea.

Catastrophe wrote:

• No visible indication of invulnerability

Weren't players supposed to be flickering while they are invulnerable?

Torr Samaho wrote:

Catastrophe wrote:

• No visible indication of invulnerability

Weren't players supposed to be flickering while they are invulnerable?

They do but it's hard to see in the heat of combat imho or to see the exact moment when the protection wears off.

Torr Samaho wrote:

Catastrophe wrote:

• No visible indication of invulnerability

Weren't players supposed to be flickering while they are invulnerable?

Yes, but you can imagine in darker maps that's pretty hard to see.

Catastrophe wrote:

Torr Samaho wrote:

Catastrophe wrote:

• No visible indication of invulnerability

Weren't players supposed to be flickering while they are invulnerable?

Yes, but you can imagine in darker maps that's pretty hard to see.

Might as well give the player the Invuln-Sphere effect while invulnerable upon spawn; there is already a bright teleport fog and sound that appears where they spawn so brightness of the Invulnerability Effect won't really matter anyway whether the effect has the bright flag with everything else telling the fragger where the other player spawned.

I was thinking of one of the following options to get the point across that someone has respawn invulnerability:

• Rapid flashing of transparent to solid, and maybe a little brightness to contrast in dark maps.
• Fading in from full transparency to full solidity, again with a gentle brightness.
• A light sparkle generator to indicate they're briefly protected.

I also made a tracker post here while bringing together a few of your ideas. http://zandronum.com/tracker/view.php?id=2719