Zandronum + the new gametic (Different discussion)

[Danzoa]

So me and Kurt were talking about it, and since the Gametic binary seems to feel pretty much alot more stable when it comes to shooting and registering, we decided to create a topic to ask if it would be possible to create a new version of Zandronum, prior to 2.0 with the system in it.

This way we would be able to benefit from an already much better unlagged system while we wait for the more better settings that were promised by Water for network in 2.0.

[Kara Kurt]

Hope it doesn't get rushed though.

I'm aware that 2.0 will mostly be a Zdoom update and that will benefit modders, but it would still be nice to have the unlagged ready for 2.0 and give out a minimum delay if something goes wrong, even though the unlagged is doing good so far.

[Dark-Assassin]

In case of any chance of breakage, would the old method still exist in the later builds, or be completely deprecated and eventually removed?

[Danzoa]

Yeah indeed, it's going really good so far, so is the testing, earlier today we had a good 4v4 test server if not more.

EDIT: @Dark-Assassin I don't know really, if the gametic unlagged performs way better, the older method should really be removed since it'd be useless.

[Combinebobnt]

It would be nicer to to just get to 2.0 already.

[Konar6]

It would be nicer to to just get to 2.0 already.

[Danzoa]

Yeah that's true, but while we wait for it wouldn't it be better to just have a better unlagged system already?

Also Konar, since you're reading is it possible to host a testing server with this binary?

[Kara Kurt]

Also Konar, since you're reading is it possible to host a testing server with this binary?

Haha, ja :D

It's a pain trying to convince him to host a server; so GL

[ibm5155]

it would be cool if the difference betw the gametics could be saw by a demo recording, if yes I could make both tests on a single demo (and since most of the time i have high ping it would be cool to see it xD)

[Torr Samaho]

So me and Kurt were talking about it, and since the Gametic binary seems to feel pretty much alot more stable when it comes to shooting and registering, we decided to create a topic to ask if it would be possible to create a new version of Zandronum, prior to 2.0 with the system in it.

If the general consensus is that the gametic unlagged in its current state (i.e. changeset 25679f47738ebd391ece37d839641690a442aff2) is simply better than the old ping based unlagged, I'll pull the code into the stable repo, merge it with the 2.0 repo and can make an official 2.0 beta build. Then, servers can host the 2.0 beta and all players that would like to use the new unlagged just need to activate the automatic testing feature in their launcher and can play on these servers without any further hassles. The launcher automatically switches to the correct Zandronum binary when joining the server.

In case of any chance of breakage, would the old method still exist in the later builds, or be completely deprecated and eventually removed?

Right now the clients can go back to the old method by setting cl_ping_unlagged to 1. I plan to keep this option around for a bit and eventually remove it, if we are sure that the fallback is not needed anymore.

it would be cool if the difference betw the gametics could be saw by a demo recording, if yes I could make both tests on a single demo (and since most of the time i have high ping it would be cool to see it xD)

That's not possible. When the server does the hit calculations, it has to decide which method to use.

[Danzoa]

So me and Kurt were talking about it, and since the Gametic binary seems to feel pretty much alot more stable when it comes to shooting and registering, we decided to create a topic to ask if it would be possible to create a new version of Zandronum, prior to 2.0 with the system in it.

If the general consensus is that the gametic unlagged in its current state (i.e. changeset 25679f47738ebd391ece37d839641690a442aff2) is simply better than the old ping based unlagged, I'll pull the code into the stable repo, merge it with the 2.0 repo and can make an official 2.0 beta build. Then, servers can host the 2.0 beta and all players that would like to use the new unlagged just need to activate the automatic testing feature in their launcher and can play on these servers without any further hassles. The launcher automatically switches to the correct Zandronum binary when joining the server.

So basically we would get a 2.0 beta build that's to be hosted over any 1.3 server right?

If that's the case, how about I start a poll about whoever thinks this should be done or not? so that we can already get the newer 2.0 features along with gametic, while you get to work on 2.0 further to perfect bugs that are present? I mean I think we've done enough testing so far to say that the Gametic unlagged really feels ALOT better.

[Torr Samaho]

So basically we would get a 2.0 beta build that's to be hosted over any 1.3 server right?

You'll get a 2.0 beta build that can run alongside the normal 1.3 servers with the automatic testing feature. This would also give the 2.0 testing a boast.

[Danzoa]

So basically we would get a 2.0 beta build that's to be hosted over any 1.3 server right?

You'll get a 2.0 beta build that can run alongside the normal 1.3 servers with the automatic testing feature. This would also give the 2.0 testing a boast.

That's interesting, but why not replace 1.3 overall? If the 2.0 beta build is stable and runs well, where would the need for an outdated version be?

[Kara Kurt]

Replacing 1.3 sounds great because 2.0 beta will basically come up with new contents and be better.

[Danzoa]

Yeah that's what I think too, so all we need is Torr's approval really, if he wants to put the gametic unlagged into 2.0 and put a beta build up that we could test, and if all is stable and works well, we could make it an official release for now?

[Torr Samaho]

That's interesting, but why not replace 1.3 overall? If the 2.0 beta build is stable and runs well, where would the need for an outdated version be?

No, once we know that 2.0 is sufficiently stable, we'll make a release flagged as stable that completely replaces 1.3.

Yeah that's what I think too, so all we need is Torr's approval really, if he wants to put the gametic unlagged into 2.0 and put a beta build up that we could test, and if all is stable and works well, we could make it an official release for now?

Yes, see above. The only thing I need to know from you before I can put the unlagged changes into the official beta builds is whether the current gametic unlagged is good enough in its current state. Especially, it's important to know that you didn't encounter any side effects of the two fixes I had to make recently.

[Danzoa]

That's interesting, but why not replace 1.3 overall? If the 2.0 beta build is stable and runs well, where would the need for an outdated version be?

No, once we know that 2.0 is sufficiently stable, we'll make a release flagged as stable that completely replaces 1.3.

Yeah that's what I think too, so all we need is Torr's approval really, if he wants to put the gametic unlagged into 2.0 and put a beta build up that we could test, and if all is stable and works well, we could make it an official release for now?

Yes, see above. The only thing I need to know from you before I can put the unlagged changes into the official beta builds is whether the current gametic unlagged is good enough in its current state. Especially, it's important to know that you didn't encounter any side effects of the two fixes I had to make recently.

Well, to be completely honest, we haven't been noticing any dropped shots, ghost shots etc. except for this one time me and Kurt did, but to be honest that was probably the server acting up, because it's just too coincidential that it happened at the EXACT same time to us both.

I'd say at the moment, it's stable and good enough to put into a 2.0 beta build, if any people encounter issues with it, they can still use ping unlagged so no harm will be done.

And while the Beta is out being tested etc, maybe we'll get some duel, ctf and dm servers up and running wich will be tested on a daily basis, wich is ofcourse, if people want to benefit from a better unlagged system and test it out as much as possible to get it released in a full 2.0 version.

For example we could host the next Friday Night Fragfest with this beta build? That'd be a good test for it since those servers usually get filled with atleast over 20+ people.

[Kara Kurt]

Imo, next events, such as FNF or TNLMS (or at least CTF/TDM-related stuff) should be hosted with the current beta build, because we barely get more than 7 players to 1.4 testing.

Some say they prefer to wait for the final release of 1.4 (again we must know whether it'll be the case or not...) and some are just too lazy.

[Leonard]

Imo, next events, such as FNF or TNLMS (or at least CTF/TDM-related stuff) should be hosted with the current beta build

I agree with this and actually I already suggested it in #zatesting.
I think we need to ask FNF team members.

[Combinebobnt]

Past experience has shown that fnfs running beta builds usually flop and are headache to deal with.