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Why does too many 3D floors actually lag in Zandronum?
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:37 pm
by Vincent(PDP)
Hi!
The topic says it all.
Does anybody know why it lags so much when having lot's of 3D floors on a map? Yet this is the only game I've played that cannot handle that many "flying platforms".
There must be some solution for supporting them better?
I still think you all do a great job though, developers.
RE: Why does too many 3D floors actually lag in Zandronum?
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:32 am
by ibm5155
Well, other games usually do a better use of new resources like gpu,processor,...
for now, from what I get, most things works in a hacky way, that's not the way people would map nowadays, to compare to a modern games, you should use 3D models instead of 3D floors (even if they're much better than fake bridges like on frozen time)...
plus, the maps that are lagging may be open areas,3D floors are just a part of the problem (just check frozen time, there's no 3D floors, and even then you'll only get 24fps D:
The devlopers are great, the problem itself is DOOM
RE: Why does too many 3D floors actually lag in Zandronum?
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:13 am
by Ænima
ibm5155 wrote:
plus, the maps that are lagging may be open areas,3D floors are just a part of the problem (just check frozen time, there's no 3D floors, and even then you'll only get 24fps D:
The devlopers are great, the problem itself is DOOM
Exactly. At its heart, this is still a raycaster game. I haven't seen the OGL source but I would assume that everything not obscured by "null" map space (sectorless shapes) is drawn by the renderer, therefore open areas with many 3D bridges (or many overlapping 3D floors a la InvUnl's Anime Mansion) cause TONS of FPS lag because every 3D sector in view is being rendered at once, because 3D sectors don't count as null space (so even if your actual eyesight is blocked by a 3D floor ingame, you are still rendering everything that's behind it until your "rays" hit void space).
3D models also do not block rays, but I'm not sure if they're better or worse for framerate than using 3D map architecture.
RE: Why does too many 3D floors actually lag in Zandronum?
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:45 am
by mifu
I cant say I had lag in any map that was 3d floor heavy however a combo of lots of monsters and 3d floors will drop FPS on my machine regardless of machine specs.
I will say though, those with an ATI/AMD card may suffer more from issues then anyone that has Nivida card. So hardware and engine limitation are a pretty deadly combo
RE: Why does too many 3D floors actually lag in Zandronum?
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:46 am
by ibm5155
^
That's something it would be cool to be tested, compare 1000 3D foors vs 1000 3D models, both on the same size and textures...
I think, 3D flloors may lag more since they can affect more the map itself (like make the place down of it darker, ...
RE: Why does too many 3D floors actually lag in Zandronum?
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:02 am
by Vincent(PDP)
Thanks for the replies! Makes me understand a bit more...
mifu wrote:
I will say though, those with an ATI/AMD card may suffer more from issues then anyone that has Nivida card. So hardware and engine limitation are a pretty deadly combo
I have both AMD and Nvidia. AMD's better in my case :P
For my initial question, I was pretty much reffering to my Zombie Horde map. C:
http://www.mydoomsite.com/WADS/ZM10update30.zip
RE: Why does too many 3D floors actually lag in Zandronum?
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:29 am
by Espio
Ænima wrote:
ibm5155 wrote:
plus, the maps that are lagging may be open areas,3D floors are just a part of the problem (just check frozen time, there's no 3D floors, and even then you'll only get 24fps D:
The devlopers are great, the problem itself is DOOM
Exactly. At its heart, this is still a raycaster game. I haven't seen the OGL source but I would assume that everything not obscured by "null" map space (sectorless shapes) is drawn by the renderer, therefore open areas with many 3D bridges (or many overlapping 3D floors a la InvUnl's Anime Mansion) cause TONS of FPS lag because every 3D sector in view is being rendered at once, because 3D sectors don't count as null space (so even if your actual eyesight is blocked by a 3D floor ingame, you are still rendering everything that's behind it until your "rays" hit void space).
3D models also do not block rays, but I'm not sure if they're better or worse for framerate than using 3D map architecture.
...Well thanks for clearing that up. No wonder.
RE: Why does too many 3D floors actually lag in Zandronum?
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:01 pm
by ibm5155
mifu wrote:
I will say though, those with an ATI/AMD card may suffer more from issues then anyone that has Nivida card. So hardware and engine limitation are a pretty deadly combo
For now I don't think the problem is the gpu itself and yes the processor.
Like on my tests on heavy maps (frozen time) and some not so heavy (vanilla doom, abandoned mines - zombie horde)...
I was making an experiment with my AMD HD8870m and changing the clock from 820MHz to 320MHz + changing the memory clock from 4Ghz to 600MHz resulted in not even a single fps drop, but, when I change to economy mode (where the processor is downclocked to half and the gpu get the same low clock on the top) the performance droped by 50%...
It also may explain why a old centriono with intel gma could play all out war fine while an atom 320 + intel gma couldn't (since zanzan requires much more processor than gpu)