Zandronum

My friend says that using BFG9000 in duels is a sign of weakness, that real players should never use it, and that everyone who does so should be bananered with extreme prejudice.

I strongly disagree.

Discuss.

EDIT: no the thread was not made to let the community collectively agree that my friend is silly, it was made to discuss BFG

BFG is goddamn art, to obtain, use and dodge, and I am praying to it every Thursday.

does it really need to be discussed?

just answer it with a duel, and see if the BFG saves him

4 possibilities:

1) They are Hispanic (not saying they're all haters at all tho), very uncompetitive or rarely dedicated to the 1on1,
2) They belong to [ROX], a Brazilian clan,
3) They're some sort of cry-baby ragers,
4) They do not know how to use the BFG, dodge BFG attacks properly and may think it is unfair to play against a player who has, over time, learned the BFG and therefore refuse playing agains't you because of your skills... which is just plain stupid.

SwordGrunt wrote: just answer it with a duel, and see if the BFG saves him

Well he obviously said that after I steamrolled over him using the abovementioned BFG. Then he said something about being unable to find it, even though it was right there in the middle of the map. Truly, sometimes, the best way to hide something is to just put it in plain sight.

I made this thread not to prove anything to anyone, but to hear people's opinions. Because let's face it, BFG9k is a fairly controversional weapon. I just wanted to hear what people think about it, both pros and not-so-pros.

it's controversial when people don't know what they're doing

I don't remember a highly-skilled player that refuses to use it or complains about opponents using it

if they play shoot and get completely wrecked they might say the ssg is cheap for easily killing in 1 hit

if anything I'd say the plasma rifle is more frowned upon than the bfg itself

Have a small map with two spawns and one ssg, the spawns are near each other and infinite ammo is on, ssg will be the "nub wepon" in this case.

Have a large map with plenty of shock points for the bfg ball and all open, bfg will be the nub wepon, as long as the bfg user keeps himself far enough from the opponent, so this opponent doesn't escape from his fov cone. Again, infinite ammo.

Same map as before but no BFG, chaingun will be the nub wepon, as long as the user keeps himself far enough.

And so on. It's not the weapon, it's the player AND the map.

I find the Super-S.... Ok, sticking with the topic I strongly disagree, as someoneelse said using it is an art. Sure it may grant you 'easy' frags but you have to know how and when to use it to master its efficiency. I find it lamer in DM since you can easily get top kills just because you keep spamming green balls, but it still an art to fire with the correct timing while moving in an appropriate position to obtain the best of it.

Pick D2MAP01 and that's a map where the BFG9000 is very hard to use and master due to the many corners and places where people can hide, said can be said for judas (Just to pick popular maps. Ok, MAP01 isn't popular but fuck is good and it's MAP01!) where it's hard to grab it without getting killed and eve harder to use it efficiently (as long as the oppo is aware of your position).

What, in my humble opinion, is lame and somehow breaks the dynamics that made doom great is the.... YEAH. But I don't want to flame/derail. I just fucking hate it.
Deal with it.

Well, considering that original Doom developers had no idea this would be multiplayer game one day, none of the weapons is even mildly balanced. And BFG is just the ultimate weapon of Doom. So yea, it is overpowered as fuck, and yes, it was meant to be that way, because nobody cares about how demons feel about players being super ultra hyper 360 noscope strong.

D2m1 is where the BFG shows its real power, efficiency, technics, where it requires more skill to do decent tricks...

This topic again? I thought we were past this. I guess not.

Good SSG and evasion > BFG
If you let your opponent hoard the BFG then it's more of a problem in your tactic.

Luke wrote: What, in my humble opinion, is lame and somehow breaks the dynamics that made doom great is the.... YEAH. But I don't want to flame/derail. I just fucking hate it.

In fact... go on. If by this you meant that you hate BFG because it "somehow breaks the dynamics that made doom great" then I'd like to hear it. Thread was made to discuss bfg, after all.

CloudFlash wrote: Well, considering that original Doom developers had no idea this would be multiplayer game one day, none of the weapons is even mildly balanced. And BFG is just the ultimate weapon of Doom. So yea, it is overpowered as fuck, and yes, it was meant to be that way, because nobody cares about how demons feel about players being super ultra hyper 360 noscope strong.

Uh, the deathmatch mode was included there from the VERY BEGINNING.

Weapons are in fact mostly balanced in my opinion(well, I don't think shotgun is that hella useful, and chainsaw, fist and pistol are lol but they are just not dm weapons). So yes, maybe BFG was NOT meant to be overpowered as fuck. In fact, it probably isn't.

I could say many reasons to why BFG is not OP, but I'll only point to one fact - have you ever noticed that BFG appears in almost every single duel map out there, while things like, say, soulspheres, megaarmors, or, heaven forbid, megaspheres, appear rarely, if ever? Not even talking about such horrible blasphemies to all nature such as invulnerability spheres.

If BFG was truly OP, would it really appear everywhere?

Spottswoode wrote: This topic again? I thought we were past this. I guess not.

I was just wonderin, sheesh.

I've seen this discussion come up every 6 months, it's getting quite old. Experience is all that determines how effective BFG is, much like any other weapon.

To put it plain and simple, the BFG's a weapon that's all for timing and patience, with a side of accuracy. As much as you think it'd work in a spam situation, this "nub wepon" caller has obviously only used it on monsters and not players...

But outside ammo respawn servers vs monsters you dont go spamming bfg to kill every imp and pinky in map :p
On BFG : I'd rather fighting bfg with pistol over minigun and grenade launchers >_>

Your friend should read http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html .

The BFG is not overpowered. It has the most raw power of any weapon, which it should; but you can still beat it with lower tier weapons and superior timing and tactics, keeping gameplay interesting. If it's on a PvP map, then you're supposed to control it, and ignoring it for being a nub wepon would be missing the point of the map.

Only weapon anyone should complain about is the SSG.

Specifically when every map in a wad, compet or not, starts you off with one.

Now someone will put iddqd and blur spheres to distract players from bfg and ssg ;)

HexaDoken wrote:

Luke wrote: What, in my humble opinion, is lame and somehow breaks the dynamics that made doom great is the.... YEAH. But I don't want to flame/derail. I just fucking hate it.

In fact... go on. If by this you meant that you hate BFG because it "somehow breaks the dynamics that made doom great" then I'd like to hear it. Thread was made to discuss bfg, after all.

I can't tell if there's sarcasm or not but... I wasn't talking about the BFG9000.

-Jes- wrote: Only weapon anyone should complain about is the SSG.

Specifically when every map in a wad, compet or not, starts you off with one.

Marry me?