Built in skins with zandronum

[Catastrophe]

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[Reaku]

That was the general idea, but it follows close behind.
Usually skin wads aren't that huge when it comes to size, but if you're adding in high quality sounds into it, you're asking for trouble if the compression is anything above a 16 bit WAV file. Some skin files I see have either OGGs or something completely different.

[Catastrophe]

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[Reaku]

Following that logic, pretty much... But who in their right mind has 100MB of skins!? That's just plain mad!

[scalliano]

I don't know, but my Q3 skin collection is in the GB's :P

Having the old ST skins as an optional download makes sense, if only so that they aren't lost forever. However, I like the idea of Zan-specific skins bundled with the port.

[Reaku]

Having the old ST skins as an optional download makes sense, if only so that they aren't lost forever.

They shouldn't be lost forever, there should be enough people with them, even I have them.

[Reach Term]

That was the general idea, but it follows close behind.
Usually skin wads aren't that huge when it comes to size, but if you're adding in high quality sounds into it, you're asking for trouble if the compression is anything above a 16 bit WAV file. Some skin files I see have either OGGs or something completely different.

Hi, um, you're wrong... WAV files are lossless format like OGG. Where as, MP3s are consider lossy compression, meaning a MP3 size compressing the sound, which result a smaller file size. Which is why people are getting albums at 100MB, where as WAV, OGG & FLACs are 100 times bigger. The problem is, is that people are not setting file size caps on their wads and PK3s. For me, a cap would be 10MB for a wad and 25 for a PK3.

"I can save disk spaec!11"

Dude, it's fucking 2012, even when I had ST on my dinosaur 50 gig computer, sacrificing 10mb for skins was and is no big deal. You really can't bitch about file-size of skins considering how much we've advanced in hard-drive space. Even here in Bangladesh they have computers with half a terabyte of space. If filesize is really an issue, all I can say is... How the fuck don't you have enough space?! It's literally less than 20mb which is nothing these days, getting a really shitty 5 dollar pen drive will give you 50 times+ more space than that!

I've seen servers who release their "hangout" wads. Once I realise what wads I needed, it told me that I needed over 150MB in wads. That's my point.

I could have sworn we were talking about skins, and not pointless hq wads with 500 mp3's put into it. Also, if you are referring to skin wads, please link the skin wad that has a filesize of 100 mb, rofl.

True but do I really need 100 skins to run around in a open space wad with nothing to do?

[Qent]

OGG is lossy like MP3.

[Reach Term]

OGG is lossy like MP3.

Really? Then I got my facts wrong. Carry on...

[Ghastly]

OGG is lossy like MP3.

It is lossy, but you get FAR better quality for size than you do with MP3.

Regarding the topic at hand, I see no problems with distributing the individual skins in individual wads or pk3s. Skulltag did that anyway!

[Catastrophe]

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[Ijon Tichy]

True but do I really need 100 skins to run around in a open space wad with nothing to do?

That's implying there will be 100 skins, and I'll go back to my older point: You can always either download the lite version that does not contain skins or turn them off in the full version via 'cl_skins 0'. Problem solved, everyone is happy.

BUT THEN WE DON'T GET TO ARGUE ABOUT STUPID THINGS

as for myself, I don't see the point of skins and keep the things disabled
I'm also one of those people as for whom space is an issue (all of 4GB to work with, with 1.3GB left), but seriously, is it so hard to just (rm|del|right-click on the skins and click "Delete")?

[Guest]

is it so hard to just (rm|del|right-click on the skins and click "Delete")?

As long as you pay me the extra bandwidth spent (1GB bandwidth limit per month is not uncommon here) or keep them in a separate package, no. And not everyone have direct access to this information (read newbies). I would vote for the skins being up to the servers.

About the resources of this port, why not giving FreeDoom a chance? This could become a standalone game and a source port for Doom. There is a good amount of textures inside, the problem would be to do the rest of the sprites. Better than spending precious megabytes with dumb skins.

[Avi]

is it so hard to just (rm|del|right-click on the skins and click "Delete")?

As long as you pay me the extra bandwidth spent (1GB bandwidth limit per month is not uncommon here) or keep them in a separate package, no. And not everyone have direct access to this information (read newbies). I would vote for the skins being up to the servers.

About the resources of this port, why not giving FreeDoom a chance? This could become a standalone game and a source port for Doom. There is a good amount of textures inside, the problem would be to do the rest of the sprites. Better than spending precious megabytes with dumb skins.

That's exactly why I feel skins have no place in an early release. Given Skulltag's official releases had multiple download options (full, lite, zipped) I figured Zandronum would do the same. That said, once there is an official exe installer then the developers can throw content in to their hearts content. But skins in an alpha/beta? *shrugs*

[NeuralStunner]

[OGG] is lossy, but you get FAR better quality for size than you do with MP3.

I've read about some kind of "pre-echo" but never actually heard it. Whereas the artifacts in MP3 are very audible to me. MP3 also has a decoding gap which makes it horrid for looping sounds or music.

You can always either download the lite version that does not contain skins or turn them off in the full version via 'cl_skins 0'. Problem solved, everyone is happy.

Indeed, already having the option to do without makes griping about it pointless. But then again...

BUT THEN WE DON'T GET TO ARGUE ABOUT STUPID THINGS

HULK SMASH LOGIC!

As long as you pay me the extra bandwidth spent (1GB bandwidth limit per month is not uncommon here) or keep them in a separate package, no. And not everyone have direct access to this information (read newbies).

To what information? That there's a smaller package on the downloads page? If you're someone who's aware of your own bandwidth limits, you can at least take a few more seconds to look at your options and make the smarter decision.

I would vote for the skins being up to the servers.

Skins are a client feature. If you add them as a server-file, it's just going to be a nuicance for users that don't want/need the skins file. And not even something that would technically keep them from joining. (I've skipped music packs before, doesn't hurt anything since I keep music off anyway.)

[The Toxic Avenger]

There seems to be a love/hate relationship with the skins. Personally, I do want the ST skins to be included in the next release of zandronum or something, or atleast keep the Base III skin. its not really a big deal but it would be nice if this could happen, since ST was forked over.

The reason why is because the only people who loves the skins are people who only play coop and what not. You don't see people in ctf wearing skins.

Some people, such as I, use Ruin/Strikerman's Sgt. Tourette. Slyfox uses SMDM's Magnus. Those are a couple examples. It's uncommon to see non-base skins though, yes.

[Ghastly]

I would vote for the skins being up to the servers.

There was a bug on Skulltag for a while that made it so that only skins hosted on the server appeared at all. What this meant was that individual players couldn't see skins they had in their skins folder, but they had no choice but to see skins they didn't want (but the server was hosting). Plus, back then, you had to download these 15MB skin wads just to get on these servers.

[Guest]

The information I refer is: deleting skins folder disables skins in all instances in the game.

If it's a client feature, let's make all the skins white, so you can't hide in dark or brownish places, so I can see where my opponent is. Everywhere. And that is a cheat.

Even if the server requires you to download the skin package, it won't be all servers, there's always an option, at least. And it would be unfair and unethical "promoting" only a (or a group of) set of skins.

Maybe, just to make everyone happy: how about the future Zandronum guy/girl?

[Ghastly]

The information I refer is: deleting skins folder disables skins in all instances in the game.

Whereas cl_skins 0 disables it for people who want it disabled.

If you're worried about people using all-white to cheat to see players in dark areas (which wouldn't be very helpful, since they still get just as dark in dark areas), then skins don't make a difference. You have to have that skin selected for it to have that effect. However, people could replace sprites with all-white blobs easily enough (and they can do this by modifying doom2.wad, so good luck stopping them from doing that).

[Guest]

Doesn't servers do a checksum match to enter?

For example, I can't join a server using 1.9 if I have 1.666 or whatever. I'm sure because I tested it.