Zandronum

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:52 pm**

Stupid question: why hasn't anyone put out a Voxel-Doom?

3D models rarely look good (make that almost never) when compared to the old-school 2D sprites; however "paper" monsters and projectiles are very much outdated... flying in Heretic, HeXen or Doom and seeing flat walls of pixels attacking you is just sad.

So... you'd think someone would have gone for the middle ground, Voxels!

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:20 pm**

Team Hellspawn did make some Doom Voxels to use in zDoom
http://www.teamhellspawn.com/voxels.htm

It's not complete, but most Weapons are done!

(And i agree, Voxels look better than the flat 2D Sprites

)

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:25 pm**

However it doesn't look like voxels will make it any further than stationery items.
Each model is essentially a 3D sprite. For monsters and everything else with sprite animations, you'd have to create an entire voxel model for every individual frame. That would be awfully tedious.

I do have an idea though. There are utilities to convert poly models into voxels, so perhaps exporting keyframes as voxels would do the trick. Not sure how well, but hey, I think it's absolutely possible if anyone will ever be bothered.

EDIT: I've never understood why people find necessity for voxel projects involving weapons and pickup items only. If the aim is to enhance the graphics of a dated engine, why not enhance the experience? We spend the majority of gameplay blasting monsters and yet they're hardly ever the subject of graphics enhancement projects.

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:49 pm**

bleson wrote: However it doesn't look like voxels will make it any further than stationery items.
Each model is essentially a 3D sprite. For monsters and everything else with sprite animations, you'd have to create an entire voxel model for every individual frame. That would be awfully tedious.

I do have an idea though. There are utilities to convert poly models into voxels, so perhaps exporting keyframes as voxels would do the trick. Not sure how well, but hey, I think it's absolutely possible if anyone will ever be bothered.

EDIT: I've never understood why people find necessity for voxel projects involving weapons and pickup items only. If the aim is to enhance the graphics of a dated engine, why not enhance the experience? We spend the majority of gameplay blasting monsters and yet they're hardly ever the subject of graphics enhancement projects.

Vehicle voxels only need one frame. ;)

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(Ignore the ugly frameskip in the video. That doesn't happen ingame. Stupid FRAPS.)

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:32 pm**

I am absolutely mind-blown. That is awesome, and please continue to be a flowing river of awesomeness.

Hopefully your voxel concept inspires others.

EDIT: What programs were involved in the creation of that?

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:42 pm**

Wow, I didn't know about this! The first 3D models that look good, going to try them right now.

Script error, "voxel_test.wad:DECORATE" line 6:
"activation" is an unknown actor property

Too bad they don't work with Zandronum.

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:43 pm**

Luke wrote: Wow, I didn't know about this! The first 3D models that look good, going to try them right now.

Script error, "voxel_test.wad:DECORATE" line 6:
"activation" is an unknown actor property
Too bad they don't work with Zandronum.

Well obviously.
Zandronum's based off of ZDooM 2.3.1 (revision 1551)
Voxels were only introduced in ZDooM 2.6.0 (revision 3730) released about 2½ years later. (last summer)

And I wouldn't bet on Zandro's upcoming codebase update going all the way up to 2.6.0, nor to feature as big an out-of-order backport as voxels!

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:33 pm**

I prefer voxels to 3D models in Doom anyway, 1 IMO they look better and 2 they are far more easier to construct than 3D models. Also, take a look at ZDoom's voxel test wad. All weapons and most of the objects are made in voxels on that now if only someone made voxel weapons in the first person perspective, along with projectiles.

Posted: **Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:54 pm**

Springy wrote:I prefer voxels to 3D models in Doom anyway, 1 IMO they look better and 2 they are far more easier to construct than 3D models.

Totally agreed.

Springy wrote:Also, take a look at ZDoom's voxel test wad. All weapons and most of the objects are made in voxels on that now if only someone made voxel weapons in the first person perspective, along with projectiles.

AND MONSTERS!!! they are the one aspect of doom (and Heretic, and Hexen, and Strife) that most DESPERATELY need an update/upgrade appearance-wise, and yet no one is up to the task. If I'm reading bleson's post correctly:

bleson wrote:However it doesn't look like voxels will make it any further than stationery items.
Each model is essentially a 3D sprite. For monsters and everything else with sprite animations, you'd have to create an entire voxel model for every individual frame. That would be awfully tedious.

I do have an idea though. There are utilities to convert poly models into voxels, so perhaps exporting keyframes as voxels would do the trick. Not sure how well, but hey, I think it's absolutely possible if anyone will ever be bothered.

then that means it's not difficult to do from a technical standpoint, it just happens to be a drag? man, I wish I were more computer litterate, I'd take on the task.

bleson wrote:EDIT: I've never understood why people find necessity for voxel projects involving weapons and pickup items only. If the aim is to enhance the graphics of a dated engine, why not enhance the experience? We spend the majority of gameplay blasting monsters and yet they're hardly ever the subject of graphics enhancement projects.

I know right?! you'd think that in a game about killing things, one of the main concerns would be making the things you kill look rather nice.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:53 am**

Oh, you mean like the dozens of highres monster projects that have started and died over the years? Nevermind the fact that the community has an entire bestiary website for custom monsters and such.
Fact is, the things you're dreaming about require rather large commitments of TIME, think YEAR+. Something not exactly in large quantities here in the doom community.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:45 am**

That's true.
I still question of the need to enhance such insignificant assets as pickup items. That time and talent could be used working on, like I said, things that the player actually notices whilst playing.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:54 am**

bleson wrote: That's true.
I still question of the need to enhance such insignificant assets as pickup items. That time and talent could be used working on, like I said, things that the player actually notices whilst playing.

Because they're the far easiest to make. 1 frame against 30 thrice as complex ones, sounds like a good deal to me.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:02 pm**

Shadow Warrior only had voxels for pickups and decorative actors, and nobody seemed to have a problem with that.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:05 pm**

I get you guys, but that's not exactly my point.

I wondered why the Doom community would invest time and effort into a 'pointless' idea. The fact that they're easier to produce doesn't make the idea less pointless.

Nevermind my argument now.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:13 pm**

bleson wrote: I get you guys, but that's not exactly my point.

I wondered why the Doom community would invest time and effort into a 'pointless' idea. The fact that they're easier to produce doesn't make the idea less pointless.

To put things in perspective, pretty much everything made in the Doom community is "pointless". There's no profit to be made from modding, so there's no immediate incentive to get things finished.

Also, why bother making voxel monsters when there's already monster model packs out there? The only thing that voxels have over models is that they work in both software and OpenGL.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:32 pm**

Ænima wrote: Shadow Warrior only had voxels for pickups and decorative actors, and nobody seemed to have a problem with that.

Blood's ammo boxes, weapons and some pickups were voxels too and it's 15 years old game.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:32 pm**

Ænima wrote:
bleson wrote: However it doesn't look like voxels will make it any further than stationery items.
Each model is essentially a 3D sprite. For monsters and everything else with sprite animations, you'd have to create an entire voxel model for every individual frame. That would be awfully tedious.

I do have an idea though. There are utilities to convert poly models into voxels, so perhaps exporting keyframes as voxels would do the trick. Not sure how well, but hey, I think it's absolutely possible if anyone will ever be bothered.

EDIT: I've never understood why people find necessity for voxel projects involving weapons and pickup items only. If the aim is to enhance the graphics of a dated engine, why not enhance the experience? We spend the majority of gameplay blasting monsters and yet they're hardly ever the subject of graphics enhancement projects.
Vehicle voxels only need one frame. ;)

phpBB [video]
The [video] tag is deprecated, please use the [media] tag

(Ignore the ugly frameskip in the video. That doesn't happen ingame. Stupid FRAPS.)

i demand to know how the sound was done! >:o (you know why)

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:15 pm**

Voxels would be great since they blend in with the engine far better than 3d models, that just look out of place.

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:28 pm**

mr fiat wrote:
Ænima wrote:
bleson wrote: However it doesn't look like voxels will make it any further than stationery items.
Each model is essentially a 3D sprite. For monsters and everything else with sprite animations, you'd have to create an entire voxel model for every individual frame. That would be awfully tedious.

I do have an idea though. There are utilities to convert poly models into voxels, so perhaps exporting keyframes as voxels would do the trick. Not sure how well, but hey, I think it's absolutely possible if anyone will ever be bothered.

EDIT: I've never understood why people find necessity for voxel projects involving weapons and pickup items only. If the aim is to enhance the graphics of a dated engine, why not enhance the experience? We spend the majority of gameplay blasting monsters and yet they're hardly ever the subject of graphics enhancement projects.
Vehicle voxels only need one frame. ;)

phpBB [video]
The [video] tag is deprecated, please use the [media] tag

(Ignore the ugly frameskip in the video. That doesn't happen ingame. Stupid FRAPS.)
i demand to know how the sound was done! >:o (you know why)

The RPM number is an ACS variable. There's a different (higher-pitched) sound for every 500 RPMs. Not super realistic, and the samples I'm currently using sound like shit. But eh. I don't really care. :p

Posted: **Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:30 pm**

I would agree with voxels ONLY if they are optinal. I don't want voxels added because Most modifications use sprites for enimies, ect. and having voxels mixed with sprites would look odd.

Zandronum

Fragging Voxels, how do they work?

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