Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
The main fear I have of this is the main server hosts all becoming "anti-masterban" thus making the banlist completely useless.
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
I don't get arguments like this. Captain Izayoi nailed it pretty well when he said that the master banlist should be a guideline, not the law. It shouldn't act as some Nazi banlist that a server is forced to either enforce or face banishment, it should act as a list of highly recommended bans to server owners from the Zandronum administration. As countless people in this thread have said, the server owners should retain final authority over their own servers as they pay for, and maintain them. Not the Zandro staff, not the players - them. Why shouldn't they be allowed to make the decision for themselves? Why is everyone trying to think for everyone else? Let the server owners make their own choice to enable the master banlist or not, and let the players decide weather or not they want to connect to the non-enforcing servers. It's that easy.Llewellyn wrote: The main fear I have of this is the main server hosts all becoming "anti-masterban" thus making the banlist completely useless.
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
The master server admins should be able to decide who can use the master server because they run and pay for the master server.legion wrote: server hosts should be able to decide who plays and who doesn't on their servers, because guess what, they run and pay for the servers, and you do not.
That could happen, but there are still newbies hosting their own servers from home and servers with few moderators like Armada that would still make use of the banlist.Llewellyn wrote: The main fear I have of this is the main server hosts all becoming "anti-masterban" thus making the banlist completely useless.
Last edited by Qent on Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
Bingo.Qent wrote:The master server admins should be able to decide who can use the master server because they run and pay for the master server.legion wrote: server hosts should be able to decide who plays and who doesn't on their servers, because guess what, they run and pay for the servers, and you do not.
"I pay for my apartment, therefore I have the right to turn it into a crackhouse."
I understand what you're saying, Legion, and I do agree with it. If I paid for my own server, I'd damn well want to have the last say in how it's run. However, I don't think most hosts care about whether or not they can exempt certain users from the master banlist. Unless they're buddies with one.
---------------------------------------
Which brings me to my next point. And this is just a general question, directed at anyone who wants to answer ...
Spoiler: (Open)
Take a look through the above list and tell me ... Who would you whitelist?
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RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
Possibly capo. Just maybe Dr. Noob for short periods, so as not to give anyone permanent brain damage.
For the record I'm still against strict enforcement of the master banlist, but IMHO Legion's argument actually speaks in favor of strict enforcement, if anything.
For the record I'm still against strict enforcement of the master banlist, but IMHO Legion's argument actually speaks in favor of strict enforcement, if anything.
Last edited by Qent on Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ruin
- Retired Staff / Community Team Member
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RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
This has been an issue before with CyberHunter's servers. People were allowed to impersonate, break all sorts of rules that were normally bannable offenses and no punishments were issued and he was uncooperative with master server admins (if memory serves me properly). Many complaints from players later....His servers were eventually barred from broadcasting on the master server. It may be your house, but the housing association will be looking in to make sure it isn't a complete dump.Ænima wrote:Bingo.Qent wrote:The master server admins should be able to decide who can use the master server because they run and pay for the master server.legion wrote: server hosts should be able to decide who plays and who doesn't on their servers, because guess what, they run and pay for the servers, and you do not.
"I pay for my apartment, therefore I have the right to turn it into a crackhouse."
Not saying that's how things WILL be. But, that's what I recall happening the last time a server cluster got out of hand and received a ton of complaints from people.
I'm for the optional banlist as long as servers are moderated properly.
Last edited by Ruin on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Secondly, <PRO> is utter shit, and they're only "known" because almost all of them are also staff." - /vr/
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
I know that I don't post much on any forums but when I do it's either something I'm interested in or something which I'm for changing. Ten or anyone hasn't been putting me forward to do this, I've noticed it from threads ago on different forums that this just hasn't been resolved properly.Ten has had influence from previous threads and discussions but still I would love for this to go forward. Also this shouldn't matter who posted it or not, it's a legitimate thread which shouldn't be penalised by who posts it. Plus if this did go forward some of the servers would have competitive players, E.G reck or shane or some of the others banned to play on private servers. They could always do this hiding but yeah anyone could.Ænima wrote: wow, a pretty hostile response for someone who claims to be innocent. i also never said that you were banned from these forums. hurrrrrrrr.
it's pretty obvious that you either used fluffles' name/account or got him to post this for you.
1.) fluffles hardly ever posts. like, ever. seems kinda odd that he suddenly starts posting again, not for clans, not for competition, but for this. hmmmm.
2.) you've started threads exactly like this before. twice on skulltag and once on altdeath.
3.) for some reason, you're hellbent on getting yourself whitelisted.
Also maybe this will help if I could create a poll aswell on the % of people who would love this updated. I'm thinking of putting a support list in the OP aswell.
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
Thank you. I was waiting for someone to bring up CyberHunter. Sometimes I feel like the only one who still remembers the "CyberHunter Playground" servers.Ruin wrote: CyberHunter
But yeah. Fortunately, there aren't any servers like this anymore, but that's not to say that there won't ever be.
Reinforcements: midgame Survival joining/respawning
Doom64: Unabsolved: Doom64 + Diablo II
ZandroSkins: a pack made by our community
AeniPuffs: 3D blood and bullet puff effects, free to use for your own mods
Squad Radio: a WASD-based radio chat menu, add your own custom sounds!
Mercenaries (on hold)
Doom64: Unabsolved: Doom64 + Diablo II
ZandroSkins: a pack made by our community
AeniPuffs: 3D blood and bullet puff effects, free to use for your own mods
Squad Radio: a WASD-based radio chat menu, add your own custom sounds!
Mercenaries (on hold)
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
The master server is supposed to be a service to the community/players as it acts as a centralized listing for hosted servers. If no one offered up their servers to play on, the master server would be useless. That is exactly why the master banlist should be a guideline, because without servers, there would be no master server. The administration/government (Zand staff/master server) are in place to serve the people (the players and server owners). For that reason alone, server owners should indeed have the final say over their property that they own and the players chose to connect to, not the Zand staff.Qent wrote:The master server admins should be able to decide who can use the master server because they run and pay for the master server.legion wrote: server hosts should be able to decide who plays and who doesn't on their servers, because guess what, they run and pay for the servers, and you do not.
Ænima wrote:However, I don't think most hosts care about whether or not they can exempt certain users from the master banlist. Unless they're buddies with one.
That's just one example posted right here in this thread. I know there are other server hosts who expressed interest in having the option, but I will not speak for them and let them post if they wish.Jenova wrote: In some cases, I, or even other server hosts, may wish to let cheaters play on their servers. I run a service for the community that let's anyone host their own server. Some of these players may with to play with their friends who were masterbanned. Danzoa for instance wasn't banned for cheating, but was masterbanned for being an asshole.
I like this idea, get some hard numbers going. From what I can see only maybe 3-4 people have spoken of any oppositon to this, compared to the dozens who support it. This is a legislation, and just like in law propositions there is always going to be some people who oppose it regardless of how many support it. It would be impossible to get every single person in the entire community to support something.Fluffles wrote: Also maybe this will help if I could create a poll aswell on the % of people who would love this updated. I'm thinking of putting a support list in the OP aswell.
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
As a service to the community/players it's watched over by the person who hosts it. Making scenarios about the master server's usefulness doesn't say anything against the fact that the person hosting the master server still has the right to decide who can use the master server and who can't. It's inane at this point to say if no one offered up their servers, the master would be useless because the current state of it says otherwise.Valance wrote: The master server is supposed to be a service to the community/players as it acts as a centralized listing for hosted servers. If no one offered up their servers to play on, the master server would be useless.
Last edited by Razgriz on Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<PUN1SH3R> Cube has a magnetic effect
<PUN1SH3R> all other clans are in orbit with us, they just dont know it
<PUN1SH3R> occasionally cube will pull a player into it's system
[Quote=DwangoUnited Website] Eyes has tainted the DWANGO name in World of Warcraft. Eyes owes several thousand gold to friends that offered to loan it to him. He's since cut us off completely, and is not planning on gaming or paying back what he owes leaving DWANGO United with the debt. You have hurt us in more ways than you can know, pal. I hope you're happy that we've bent over backwards for you. Thanks for paying us back with a spit in the face and a cold shoulder. By the way pal, your bfg skills suck ass.[/quote]
09:08 <Shane_> It's better being a cuck
09:08 <Shane_> Trust me, you'll learn one day
<PUN1SH3R> all other clans are in orbit with us, they just dont know it
<PUN1SH3R> occasionally cube will pull a player into it's system
[Quote=DwangoUnited Website] Eyes has tainted the DWANGO name in World of Warcraft. Eyes owes several thousand gold to friends that offered to loan it to him. He's since cut us off completely, and is not planning on gaming or paying back what he owes leaving DWANGO United with the debt. You have hurt us in more ways than you can know, pal. I hope you're happy that we've bent over backwards for you. Thanks for paying us back with a spit in the face and a cold shoulder. By the way pal, your bfg skills suck ass.[/quote]
09:08 <Shane_> It's better being a cuck
09:08 <Shane_> Trust me, you'll learn one day
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
The government isn't a good analogy for the point you're trying to make IMHO, unless you would also like to institute registration fees to pay for the master server, the website, and administrators' and moderators' salaries.Valance wrote: The administration/government (Zand staff/master server) are in place to serve the people (the players and server owners).
Last edited by Qent on Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
Absolutely it is a good analogy. The point of a government stems from the name - to govern its' people. And correct me if I'm wrong, but governments do hold these things called elections and voting ballots for the people to vote on various law propositions and elect politicians. If you check the OP, you can clearly see the vast majority of players here, including various Zandro administrators, high-profile server hosts and even Torr himself have all voted in support of this. I feel that analogy fits perfectly here.Qent wrote:The government isn't a good analogy for the point you're trying to make IMHO, unless you would also like to institute registration fees to pay for the master server, the website, and administrators' and moderators' salaries.Valance wrote: The administration/government (Zand staff/master server) are in place to serve the people (the players and server owners).
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
No, it is not a good analogy because you are citing a difference between a government and the administration of the master banlist as a reason to change the administration of the master banlist.
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
What are you talking about? In no way the administration is like a government. First the admins make the final decision, not the people. Torr basically said he would but the decision is ultimately up to the admins, not the people. Second, how are you trying to compare Fluffle's post as some sort of voting ballot for the issue? It would've made more sense if an admin actually made a post saying "hey we have this issue, you guys can vote on it and we'll go with the majority".
<PUN1SH3R> Cube has a magnetic effect
<PUN1SH3R> all other clans are in orbit with us, they just dont know it
<PUN1SH3R> occasionally cube will pull a player into it's system
[Quote=DwangoUnited Website] Eyes has tainted the DWANGO name in World of Warcraft. Eyes owes several thousand gold to friends that offered to loan it to him. He's since cut us off completely, and is not planning on gaming or paying back what he owes leaving DWANGO United with the debt. You have hurt us in more ways than you can know, pal. I hope you're happy that we've bent over backwards for you. Thanks for paying us back with a spit in the face and a cold shoulder. By the way pal, your bfg skills suck ass.[/quote]
09:08 <Shane_> It's better being a cuck
09:08 <Shane_> Trust me, you'll learn one day
<PUN1SH3R> all other clans are in orbit with us, they just dont know it
<PUN1SH3R> occasionally cube will pull a player into it's system
[Quote=DwangoUnited Website] Eyes has tainted the DWANGO name in World of Warcraft. Eyes owes several thousand gold to friends that offered to loan it to him. He's since cut us off completely, and is not planning on gaming or paying back what he owes leaving DWANGO United with the debt. You have hurt us in more ways than you can know, pal. I hope you're happy that we've bent over backwards for you. Thanks for paying us back with a spit in the face and a cold shoulder. By the way pal, your bfg skills suck ass.[/quote]
09:08 <Shane_> It's better being a cuck
09:08 <Shane_> Trust me, you'll learn one day
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
Perhaps I worded what I meant wrong, I've been up for far too long and sitting here at work with nothing else to do doesn't help, so forgive me. What I was trying to push is that the people should most definitely have a say in how the master is handled. "up to the admins, not the people"? What is this, ZDaemon? Seems to me like you're better fit working for Kilgore. As for the ballot point, sure no admin officially asked for a poll, but people can still rally for support and the numbers don't lie. If you look at the OP, you'll see that the amount of people who support this (including three Zandro admins) far outweigh the people who don't support. I have no idea why this has to keep getting blown into ridiculous preportions.
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Metal
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RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
Not quite. What he meant was the FINAL decision of it all IS handled by the administration. That does not mean that people here do not have a say, because they do, and they're entitled to that opinion and we take everyone's opinion here into consideration. It is what helps us make a good decision.Valance wrote: up to the admins, not the people"? What is this, ZDaemon? Seems to me like you're better fit working for Kilgore.
In short, it's not just the admins at work here, it's the community, dev's AND staff working to make this place a little better each time there's an 'issue' such as this.
<EazyDI>harrased me
<EazyDI>and called me a dinner
<EazyDI>n*****
<EazyDI>lmao not dinner
<EazyDI>and called me a dinner
<EazyDI>n*****
<EazyDI>lmao not dinner
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
You're all playing with words here... beginning with Tenchu. I know you are doing this for yourself, and you don't care about server admins.
Nobody at all enforces anything on your private server. The thing changes when you advertise it on the public master server, by which you agree to abide by its rules.
So if you are coming here with your story to get back to public servers, at least put your wish as it stands: "guys how about changing the master policy so that whoever hosts a server would be able to whitelist cheaters if they wish so". Don't present it as something unlawful is happening with the master. Just like you have the right to say who can play on your server, the master server operators have the right to say what do you have to do if you want your server advertised on it.
Besides, I think this was already decided long ago so you are wasting your time using extra accounts (hey that's cheating!) to aid your quest.
And if you have the impudence to call such a player as Reck who was caught cheating ~5 times(!), as "competitive player", you are only making my worries about how is this place gonna operate worse.
Don't take this as that I oppose your wish, Ten. You know I just don't like that you, of all, are the one being so persistent about bringing this up all the time, because nobody else cares as much as you do. Hadn't you made such a ruckus about it after you got banned for cheating the second time, nobody would give a shit (excuse me) that cheaters are being banned on all servers and not just on half of them. Tell me that I'm wrong.
Nobody at all enforces anything on your private server. The thing changes when you advertise it on the public master server, by which you agree to abide by its rules.
So if you are coming here with your story to get back to public servers, at least put your wish as it stands: "guys how about changing the master policy so that whoever hosts a server would be able to whitelist cheaters if they wish so". Don't present it as something unlawful is happening with the master. Just like you have the right to say who can play on your server, the master server operators have the right to say what do you have to do if you want your server advertised on it.
Besides, I think this was already decided long ago so you are wasting your time using extra accounts (hey that's cheating!) to aid your quest.
And if you have the impudence to call such a player as Reck who was caught cheating ~5 times(!), as "competitive player", you are only making my worries about how is this place gonna operate worse.
Don't take this as that I oppose your wish, Ten. You know I just don't like that you, of all, are the one being so persistent about bringing this up all the time, because nobody else cares as much as you do. Hadn't you made such a ruckus about it after you got banned for cheating the second time, nobody would give a shit (excuse me) that cheaters are being banned on all servers and not just on half of them. Tell me that I'm wrong.
Last edited by Konar6 on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ijon Tichy wrote:I like how your first responses to concerns being raised was to start insulting people, accusing random people on the Internet of being Shadowfox, and digging up irrelevant shit from the past. It really inspires confidence in me that you guys are level-headed and rational folks.
<BlueCool> you guys IQ is the same as my IP, Dynamic
RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
it is a stretch to assume this is some conspiracy from tenchu and co. I know fluffles pretty well and he is no puppet of anyone. if he thought it was a really good idea he will post about it and ask things. tenchu might have brought it up to fluffles, but that is the largest extent of his influence into anything.
then there is this:
idk, I agree with fluffles' post and dont really have a problem with it as a server admin. you cant really say "I know exactly what anyone is thinking right now" and immediately believe that they dont care about others. this idea could very well help those caught in the umpteen million ranges on the master.I know you are doing this for yourself, and you don't care about server admins.
then there is this:
cmon, we all know this is a perfectly legitimate request. you don't have to wave it off as the lamentations of the damned!-=Dark-Assassin=- wrote:
Anyway, currently we are no longer handling most masterbans. It is now up to the server hosts to manage their own bans.
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Tenchu
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RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
Wow. Quite honestly Konar, the very fact that you're getting so in-depth and personal over literally one person is hilarious. Even if I was some sort of conspiracy mastermind behind everything that's happened here, the fact that you would go out of your way to stop this entire thing from happening purely to screw me over shows that you're a shitty administrator who lets his personal feelings affect his judgement. If you want to continue to question the legitimacy of every single person who has supported this here, be my guest in making yourself look like an idiot. Cheers.
Last edited by Tenchu on Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
[22:42:21] [@SkullRush] ok guys today was one of the worst days of my life i spent p much 18 hours in my pc watching hentai and played doom with huge lag i guess i shiould go to bed now
[22:42:26] [@SkullRush] if i dont suicide, see you guys tomorrow
[22:42:29] [@SkullRush] bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb^_^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[22:43:02] • Quit: (SkullRush) (~SkullRush@SkullRush.users.zandronum.com) ("Quitting")
[22:43:40] [+Jenova] wow
[22:43:47] [+Jenova] ur avg zandronum player ladies and gentlemen
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Captain Izayoi
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RE: Forcing of the Master Banlist Ideas
I understand that as a server admin, if you want your server broadcasted, you ultimately must agree to some sort of rules. I understand, that the server admins feel cut off, that their power is completely removed. Having a notification (like Steam's VAC thingie) next to a/when entering a server can warn people of the inherent risk of cheaters. HOWEVER, giving the server admins absolutely no power seems unjustifiable, no matter how you look at it. Perhaps, enforce the master ban list by default, then allow server admins to individually select people to whitelist, if they wish, but should not be allowed to whitelist everyone. If a specific server's admin disagreed with an administrative decision, then they should have the right to do something about it. If it's at all possible, why not compromise? Why not let server admins whitelist one/two people at a time, if they truly believe the ban was unjustified? This gives the administration their just power in administering master bans, lets server admins have a say or two, and keeps servers that do whitelist one or two players broadcasted, so long as players are warned prior to/upon entering. I think this is a fair compromise between the various points presented within this thread.