Gametic Unlagged Testing (Current Build: Zandronum 2.0-alpha-150118-1152)

[Konar6]

Clientside puffs may also aid in concealing missed packets. What you see is not what the server sees. Unlagged is not to be blamed for all internet gameplay mishaps combined.

[Danzoa]

The version before the updated one felt pretty much like we had no ghost shots at all, that is with clientside puffs off and on at the same time.

I only noticed it with Kurt (I'm F3ral in the video) with the newer version, both at the same time, so it could be a server lag that popped up for a second or it was just bad luck and a coincidence.

We both shot at Watakid but just couldn't hit him, there was this one point where I got shot into a wall and he ran into me and I fired point blank, and only 1-2 bullets from my supershotgun hit, wich was pretty frustrating since that never happens and shouldn't even be possible unless your crosshair is miles off.

[Kara Kurt]

Thanks for the detailed video!

Some questions / suggestions:

• Do you have "cl_clientsidepuffs 1"? If so, please turn if off. As long as it's on, you can't trust puffs as hit indicator.
• To understand how the server is repositioning the players for the reconciliation, you can set "sv_unlagged_debugactors 1". For this you also need to define UnlaggedDebugActor in DECORATE, which is used as actor to visualizes the reconciled positions.
• Can you double check whether the original testing version from Sunday behaved any differently?

1. Yes clientside puffs was on.
2. Where do I get the debugactor actor?
3. I can check my demos from sunday but my game didn't record the Ctf part due to demos being interrupted when typing reconnect in console, which is what I did but forgot about the bug. :\

PS: nevermind, got the debugactors.

[Uwe L. Bendoverson]

[quote=IRC]22:50 <TheEnigma> Karakurt: You wouldn't happen to have Clientside puffs on by any chance?
23:13 <Karakurt> TheEnigma it's on yes
23:13 <TheEnigma> Well, when you have it on, sometimes the locations of the puffs do not match where it's really hitting online yet
23:14 <TheEnigma> So, there's a chance a puff will show directly behind someone when it went far to the right or left on the server.
23:14 <TheEnigma> Keep that in mind.[/quote]

EDIT: NVM, Turns out Karakurt responded. Fucking browser cache.

By the way, is there any chance we could get a Zandronum 2.0 Gametic unlagged testing build? It would help kill two birds with one stone.

[Kara Kurt]

22:50 <TheEnigma> Karakurt: You wouldn't happen to have Clientside puffs on by any chance?
23:13 <Karakurt> TheEnigma it's on yes
23:13 <TheEnigma> Well, when you have it on, sometimes the locations of the puffs do not match where it's really hitting online yet
23:14 <TheEnigma> So, there's a chance a puff will show directly behind someone when it went far to the right or left on the server.
23:14 <TheEnigma> Keep that in mind.

EDIT: NVM, Turns out Karakurt responded. Fucking browser cache.

Why is that by the way?

[Uwe L. Bendoverson]

Because there is no prediction for where the puffs are going to show up. The client just spawns them on it's own accord, with an RNG that doesn't match the server's.

That will be fixed later, according to Water, but when we'll see that, I don't know.

[Kara Kurt]

Oh ok. Will turning it off change anything, if not the approximate position of bullets?

[Uwe L. Bendoverson]

If you turn it off, the locations of the puffs will be exact, they just may be a little delayed.

[Torr Samaho]

I can't stress the following enough: While testing how well unlagged works, please keep the client side puffs off.

Calling the predicted puffs deceiving would be a huge understatement. You cannot deduce anything from the fact that a client side puff is spawned or from the fact that it is not spawned. You may see a puff even if a pellet hit, and you may not see a puff even if a pellet missed. This is because the client does not have the necessary information to spawn the puff and is simply guessing what could be happening.

IMHO their whole prediction concept is absolutely terrible and I don't understand why anybody would ever turn to them on. They are only in (but at least default to off) because Water assured me that some people like them in their current state despite being made clearly aware of their huge deficiencies.

By the way, is there any chance we could get a Zandronum 2.0 Gametic unlagged testing build? It would help kill two birds with one stone.

That's not too difficult, but I'd prefer first to be somewhat confident that it works reasonably well in 1.4. Once that's clear, I'd go ahead and pull the unlagged code into the stable repository and merge it with 2.0.

That will be fixed later, according to Water, but when we'll see that, I don't know.

The required syncing is quite tricky and I think that the chances of this ever happening are not terribly high...

EDIT:

If you turn it off, the locations of the puffs will be exact, they just may be a little delayed.

Not only are the positions of the puffs exact then, you will only see puffs for pellets that missed and you will never see puffs for pellets that hit.

[Uwe L. Bendoverson]

The required syncing is quite tricky and I think that the chances of this ever happening are not terribly high...

Perhaps they should be removed for now, until, and if, such code is finished.

EDIT: How hard would it be to give the hitscan functions their own RNG, separated from everything else? (So they're not screwed around by movement, collisions, etc.) And a seed would by synchronized at spawn.

[Kara Kurt]

If you turn it off, the locations of the puffs will be exact, they just may be a little delayed.

This is why I don't play without it, but I'll try.

Perhaps they should be removed for now, until, and if, such code is finished.

This.

[Torr Samaho]

Perhaps they should be removed for now, until, and if, such code is finished.

As I said, Water assured me that there are people who prefer the puff prediction in its current state to no puff prediction at all. Even though I strongly disagree on the latter, why should we deprive them of the possibility to use it? It defaults to off and if you don't like it, just don't turn it on.

EDIT: How hard would it be to give the hitscan functions their own RNG, separated from everything else? (So they're not screwed around by movement, collisions, etc.) And a seed would by synchronized at spawn.

Giving the hitscan functions their own RNG is not enough. You'd need to maintain a separate RNG for each client since a client doesn't know what the other players are doing until after the the puffs are predicted. Then you have the problem that movement commands sent from the client to the server may be lost or arrive in the wrong order...

[Bloax]

Edit: Uploaded the shit

Code: Select all

It fucks up every now and then at 460ms and 2% packetloss, but that's really extreme.
Otherwise it works like a charm.

UPDATE: it works like a fucking champ at 250-667 actual ping while i'm uploading this shit 10/10 would unlag again

Uploading a little video of me playing with some serious artificial lag. (460 ping)
And then I find out that it works even better with actual lag.

[Uwe L. Bendoverson]

Added a new server!

[Uwe L. Bendoverson]

Taking one request for a server.

Also, I noticed that gametic unlagged was officially merged with 1.4. Nice. Hopefully 2.0 testing can start soon!

phpBB [video]

The [video] tag is deprecated, please use the [media] tag

[Torr Samaho]

I also merged it with 2.0 now and plan to make a new official 2.0 beta build soon.

[Uwe L. Bendoverson]

Awesome. I'll update my servers the instant it becomes available.

[Uwe L. Bendoverson]

The IDL server died from a horrid memory leak. Rebooted.

[Danzoa]

I also merged it with 2.0 now and plan to make a new official 2.0 beta build soon.

That's great news ! sorry to be kind of.. Pushy, but when do you think it'd be out?

[Kara Kurt]

Stop being pushy, Danzoa!