ZDaemon has opted an server-side nickname authentication system

[Ru5tK1ng]

^ That's actually funny because 95% of his post was about ZD, not Zanbabwe.

[Omega]

maybe possibly having the ability to have 2 or 3 aliases, i dont see really how it could be possible right now since i just thought of it but i think it would be better than people having 10 or more aliases it makes it confusing to recognize people and sometimes can be just annoying ;/

[Fluffles]

What I find funny is that yes many of us have had issues with this new feature on zdaemon but it's getting fixed because alot of people would love the addition of clan tags etc. Also from what ive found while playing zdaemon recently is maturity in players, also players are always being recognised now while playing zdaemon as they are only allowed one nick. Thats the one problem I'll always have with skulltag is how freely people can change nicknames, one bind button and it's changed now it's a new identity. Ok freely making a new nickname is your choice and its fun to go under different identifies but I have a problem when you get some tosser who keeps changing his name every couple weeks and plays private ctf or dueling.

[Reach Term]

maybe possibly having the ability to have 2 or 3 aliases, i dont see really how it could be possible right now since i just thought of it but i think it would be better than people having 10 or more aliases it makes it confusing to recognize people and sometimes can be just annoying ;/

What I find funny is that yes many of us have had issues with this new feature on zdaemon but it's getting fixed because alot of people would love the addition of clan tags etc. Also from what ive found while playing zdaemon recently is maturity in players, also players are always being recognised now while playing zdaemon as they are only allowed one nick. Thats the one problem I'll always have with skulltag is how freely people can change nicknames, one bind button and it's changed now it's a new identity. Ok freely making a new nickname is your choice and its fun to go under different identifies but I have a problem when you get some tosser who keeps changing his name every couple weeks and plays private ctf or dueling.

Again, we're not talking about priv and aliasing, we(as a community) as gone threw this; I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH THAT THIS THREAD DOES NOT RELATE TO PRIV/CLAN WAR GAMES! I can see in dueling but we really don't need to have that fallout when we lose to people who are lesser skill than you. Also, they do have a right to revel themselves if they want(Unless you're talking about priv and that's a different ball game)

[achtung]

Some kind of optional auth system would be nice. Forcing it on everyone would not be. Adding an svar to make servers reject or accept unauthed clients would be nice if optional auth were implemented.

You could even go crazy and do something like a tripcode.

[cybershark]

First up? That Tor-Bjorn guy. Clearly educationally subnormal.
Perhaps he's new here, or thinks I never played ST either?

Oh, wait, actually you can tell he didn't read a word I said, and is just trying to look clever, because he says "So here's my opinion on the port!" when I didn't give one

1. I created 5 accounts in a week; got banned, when ask Kilgore... he rudely told me why and a person of me, who really really new at the time, why would have a reason to make that I was attacking the server. btw, that ban was a month long, you really wanted to set that tone?

It really is supposed to be something more like 5 in one day.
And the idea is that you take the matter up on irc or the forums in that happens - rather than wait a month for it to fizzle out. There's plenty of occasions where this has happened and been resolved very quickly.

My problem with that approach is that that accounts are tied to nicknames and are forever. If you just want to make some random throwaway name just so you don't get bothered, that's in the central login database for good.

What exactly is wrong with allowing anonymous access but making it stupidly obvious through a scoreboard badge or through a console command who is logged in as who and who is just aliasing?

Nothing at all. You're absolutely right on both points.
I hate the idea of waste - which creating a throwaway acount is.
As for the second point? People are really being too quick to judge the new system. Bear in mind that this was just the first iteration of the new authentication/login scheme.
Already it's been improved, precisely due to player feedback:
Read on

The fact that he (Kilgore) has any sort of meaningful control over ZDaemon is to its disadvantage and has created totally unnecessary rifts in the multiplayer community. His actions are the reason why the IDL existed as its own community apart from ZDaemon, and why Odamex even exists at all.

I believe - and have told him, in the past - that he shouldn't be getting directly involved in certain forum situations. And yes, the logical expansion of that would be that he'd only receive and pass on any information to the outside world secondhand, and just concentrate on teh programming ...which'd be great if ZD had personal assistants, secretaries, tea/coffee makers, masseurs, etc. But they don't. So, yeah...

Are your #zdplayers ops really that out-to-lunch that you need the presumed security of a client that doesn't support scripting?
...a custom IRC client doesn't really buy you anything there.

'k, maybe they have other reasons too. I'm not down with the irckiddies, so have no real clue.

But, as anyone with any skillz in that department can whip up their own network, or join the old #zdaemon freenode channel, then what is the issue? Convenience, that's all.

Protection is nice. But enforced protection isn't protection, it's coercion.

Coerwut? Nobody's being pressganged to join servers here. And there are always private servers for anything. Although... now that I've said that, I am wondering if they are exempt from login authentication...

Ech, I haven't bothered to play Ztantrum yet, and I'm not even playing ZD at the moment, but seeing this thread made me feel like registering here just to put a few dickheads straight about a few things.

The funny part about this, is if this were ZDaemon forums, your post would've been thrown into the never-returning abyss.

Don't talk shit. I've not insulted anyone important enough yet.
Maybe that comes now :>

Oh! Are we talking about the same source port who implemented voice-chat, in-game advertisements, Radar, a respawn timer in CTF overtime, and some other retarded and irrelevant effects? Or are we talking about the port where people waited 6 years for this 1.09 release, only to be disappointed? Please, don't embarrass yourself.

I think you just embarrassed yourself by not realising that most of those things can be disabled by the client
And, really, anybody on this port talking about "retarded and irrelevant effects"?

Also, you've further indicated your ignorance by not realising that the "in-game ads" were a result of the script support. They're not hardcoded, but something that I had Domains put on his 1 server - and which you and Kitty were the only ones to complain about.

Also Zandronum allows people freedom to do what they choose with their own projects. Megaman flew great lengths because of this. Not counting that though, why don't we compare playerbase? It's changed quite drastically over the past couple of years because people became tired of ZDrama.

Irrelevant. What, you think I'm somehow unaware that ST generally has 2-3 times the players that ZD has? That's a fact. Putting all of that down to "ZDrama" is not.
And what you totally ignored was the Doom part. At certain points, mods mutate so far from the Doom baseline that they are unrecognisable.

I find it very unsettling that you have come to register an account just to try and boost ZDaemons reputation, while trying to effectively insult THIS port at the same time. It's a little bit sad, and I feel kinda bad for you.

I came here strictly to clear up misinformation that people were spreading. All the rest is just voices in your head.

Anyways, where the fuck are the mods in this forum, as this topic has clearly gone off-the-rails since post one. Surely this should all be about the approach that Zdroneon chooses to adopt, no?

[Zap610]

Anyways, where the fuck are the mods in this forum, as this topic has clearly gone off-the-rails since post one.

We're all here; it might be hard to recognize though without the random bannings.

[Ruin]

You could at least have the common courtesy to spell the port name properly. As the discussion is for the most part civil, there is no need to split the thread or ban anyone. Back seat modding is usually frowned upon 'round these parts.

[Dusk]

Just saying:

And what you totally ignored was the Doom part. At certain points, mods mutate so far from the Doom baseline that they are unrecognisable.

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Aliens_TC
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Freedoom
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Batman_Doom
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Chex_Quest
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Action_Doom
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Zombies_TC
All vanilla or at least Boom compatible. And the list goes on and on..

[Shane]

I'm going to go out on a limb and possibly de-rail this ENTIRE thread, but I believe it's already been done so here goes.

Being the blood-related offspring of the creator of ZDaemon, I have discussed this prior to Nightfang quite a lot, and he believes that this authentication is merely a rouse to just prevent aliasers who aren't suppose to be playing. Yes this is a good idea towards negative players who occasionally screw up servers and what not, but really this is just another way to keep Raider and Kilgore free from controversy from players. Seriously whats up with this?

The administration is down, probably more than ever from it's spies within OTHER doom communities, simultaneously banning each and every person outside the ZDaemon community who so as much utters a single word that goes against ZDaemon or any of it's present staff. It's getting out of hand and it's entire playerbase is going to be reduced to nothing if it continues this type of behavior. ZDaemon is going down and no other type of special addons or exciting features will help it spring back to life, it's lost it's playerbase and is going to keep losing more due to paranoia and pure hatred.

How long until the administration starts banning eachother?

One things for sure, and I don't care if this is entirely off topic but it MUST be written in stone, my brother Nightfang - Sean White, formerly stated: "I should have never put Raider in charge in the first place, that was probably a mistake on my part"

[Reach Term]

1. I created 5 accounts in a week; got banned, when ask Kilgore... he rudely told me why and a person of me, who really really new at the time, why would have a reason to make that I was attacking the server. btw, that ban was a month long, you really wanted to set that tone?

It really is supposed to be something more like 5 in one day.
And the idea is that you take the matter up on irc or the forums in that happens - rather than wait a month for it to fizzle out. There's plenty of occasions where this has happened and been resolved very quickly.

Actually I ask him after the ban, HTH! Also when I made this topic it was to talk about both the future of this port and your port as well. All these posts are relevant to the thread to the point. Stop smearing the thread by trying to tell the mods to lock/clean this thread.

[The Toxic Avenger]

Cybershark I hope you're saying we shouldn't be kilgores too

[Metal]

Don't talk shit. I've not insulted anyone important enough yet.
Maybe that comes now :>

Awww, you're such a sweetheart.

I think you just embarrassed yourself by not realising that most of those things can be disabled by the client
And, really, anybody on this port talking about "retarded and irrelevant effects"?

Also, you've further indicated your ignorance by not realising that the "in-game ads" were a result of the script support. They're not hardcoded, but something that I had Domains put on his 1 server - and which you and Kitty were the only ones to complain about.

You're so cute when you're attempting to insult someone who knows more than you do about the port you're standing for! Key word "MOST" things can be disabled. For your information, cybershock, Myself and Kitty have been playing the port for a long time, as older players (Which you no longer have, See: IDL), We had a better time with 1.08 with the way it played rather than 1.09. The only reason you're not hearing it from anyone else is because there's no one else competitive or veteran enough who can tell you these things. They're either banned or long gone off that sinking ship.

How about that unlagged you guys "fixed". You are not able to disable that, which makes playing 1.09, even with a low ping, damn near impossible.

ANY in-game ads are really sad. Which 1 server was it? Was it one people were enjoying before you plastered your garbage event night advertisements all over it? Hmmm...

Irrelevant. What, you think I'm somehow unaware that ST generally has 2-3 times the players that ZD has? That's a fact. Putting all of that down to "ZDrama" is not.

Why don't you go ahead and see the nice DW thread, or the alt death thread, how about this thread? People tire of the way it's running, and shift off to another port where they're either more welcome, or the staff isn't ...Well, Kilgore. I'm sorry that you have totally blinded yourself to everything that's been going on.

I came here strictly to clear up misinformation that people were spreading. All the rest is just voices in your head.

Open your eyes. People all around are trying to inform YOU of things that you don't want to believe.

I'm going to end this here. Good luck with whatever it is you're trying to do to that port.

[Torvald]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Oh the butthurt, Like the pungent stench of a rotting corpse, it can't be missed. Maybe if you didn't insult everyone in your posts, you might have made an arguable case, *maybe* but it's a stretch. The entire time I was reading your post I could feel my IQ dropping.


I sometimes wonder if you are intentionally being this stupid, or if you actually suffered a severe blow to the head. I guess it doesn't matter; professional or gifted amateur, You got the role down to a tee.

[legion]

you didn't answer anything from my post. this makes me disappointed.
here, I'll post it again. maybe you will address those issues?
[spoiler]

in my experience with zdaemon, they do not value your opinion or freedom whatsoever. there are many people who are banned because of drama between the lead dev (kilgore) and themselves. several people have been completely masterbanned for chatting in #zdplayers, and if you even mention something like "IDL" then you will get removed forever. I remember one time I had a civil argument with kilgore in IRC and I ended up being banned for like a year from zdirc because of it. do you honestly expect these people to value your freedom or your input at all? hell, there is an entire twitter dedicated to the attitude and priceless quotes from the beloved kilgore.

that being said, this doesn't sound like half a bad idea, its just I dont think there is much benevolence behind it. kilgore and other devs have proven that they would rather concentrate on babysitting the port from every single harsh word and whatever else, which is why I dont find much love coming from this. preventing impersonation? highly unlikely, unless you reserve every single variant of your own nickname, but this is hardly worth the time or effort. preventing vulgar names/harsh language? I didn't realize this was my local church and not the internet

besides, aliasing and impersonation is something to be handled by server admins and only if it gets wildly out of hand should it be then handled by higher-ups. it sounds like there is either severe lack of server admins willing to watch over their own servers or severe lack of competent server admins.

is aliasing such a huge issue to force an authentication system for nicknames anyway? really?

[/spoiler]

in any case....

First up? That Tor-Bjorn guy. Clearly educationally subnormal.
Perhaps he's new here, or thinks I never played ST either?

Oh, wait, actually you can tell he didn't read a word I said, and is just trying to look clever, because he says "So here's my opinion on the port!" when I didn't give one :lol:

actually dude, you did give an opinion of the port. maybe not an explicit opinion, but your feelings towards it are quite clear. its totally cool though, we aren't named kilgore and you aren't being removed from this forum, because we actually allow proper debate rather than just "fuck off forever" or "go away". you know, like half the master ban list of zdaemon is?

It really is supposed to be something more like 5 in one day.
And the idea is that you take the matter up on irc or the forums in that happens - rather than wait a month for it to fizzle out. There's plenty of occasions where this has happened and been resolved very quickly.

I believe I addressed something like this in my previous post, about how the system is poorly implemented and just an obvious ploy for yet more control of the port

I believe - and have told him, in the past - that he shouldn't be getting directly involved in certain forum situations. And yes, the logical expansion of that would be that he'd only receive and pass on any information to the outside world secondhand, and just concentrate on teh programming ...which'd be great if ZD had personal assistants, secretaries, tea/coffee makers, masseurs, etc. But they don't. So, yeah...

are you kidding me. you have like a billion moderators and shit. there is also the fact that kilgore has said in the past that he doesn't want to babysit the port and just focus on the coding. and yet he still does it, why is that? I mean, hell you still have some sort of playerbase in the bubbleland you're in, yet it all still falls down to kilgore to do things?

Don't talk shit. I've not insulted anyone important enough yet.
Maybe that comes now :>

its not talking shit, its basic facts. zdaemon is totalitarian in nature and all dissenters must be culled

Oh! Are we talking about the same source port who implemented voice-chat, in-game advertisements, Radar, a respawn timer in CTF overtime, and some other retarded and irrelevant effects? Or are we talking about the port where people waited 6 years for this 1.09 release, only to be disappointed? Please, don't embarrass yourself.

I think you just embarrassed yourself by not realising that most of those things can be disabled by the client :lol:
And, really, anybody on this port talking about "retarded and irrelevant effects"? :eek:

no, I'm pretty sure you're embarrassing yourself by not reading the post. metal stipulates that those functions are retarded and irrelevant, such as the entire 1.09 update is. I can tell you metal definitely knows about disabling crap and can surely do her homework. her point was that all the years of waiting was for irrelevant crap that nobody gives a shit about

you should also not knock on this port's modability and ability to run custom things. zandronum certainly has much more choice than "totalitarian" servers.

Also, you've further indicated your ignorance by not realising that the "in-game ads" were a result of the script support. They're not hardcoded, but something that I had Domains put on his 1 server - and which you and Kitty were the only ones to complain about.

in game advertisements? im speechless, something that can be done by any other developer -ever- is amazing

Anyways, where the fuck are the mods in this forum, as this topic has clearly gone off-the-rails since post one. Surely this should all be about the approach that Zdroneon chooses to adopt, no?

a) you can at least show a little respect and call it zandronum
b) even though all this "derailing" is not off topic, there are a good lot of moderators and admins around. its just they aren't nazi assholes who close threads because they are saying mean and hurtful things : (((((((

[Samurai]

I love you CShark, but one thing i really don't understand is how, or why certain people, including yourself constantly blindly defend a buch of facist, overzealous ban happy morons who's only method of dealing with any situation is to ban everybody involved.

[HumanBones]

I have been waiting for the right moment to jump in, and that seems like now! Allow me to introduce myself to those of you unaware of the greatness you are witnessing: former super moderator of the old skulltag forums/fnf organizer/beta tester/carn's bitch, former zdaemon moderator/zds and tournament organizer/op/avatar approver, former neutral doom port player, current odamex nitro co-organizer (SHOUT OUT TO MY MAIN BOYS HEX AND SOUL) and current IDL Commissioner. Phew, glad that is over with. Too bad that doesn't fit on a real resume.

Let me start out by saying that the creation of this new port as well as the whole open source deal is pretty cool. The only thing I like to make fun of is the name. Acceptable alternatives: Zorbalwerb, Zingotrog, Zafraldax, and Zippowov. I want credit for whichever one you choose. ANYWAY about that whole alias protection thing: it's been talked about since 2006 (you know... since the release of 1.08 :X) so it's not something new. Aliases were something to worry about back then because they had a playerbase. Now it seems silly but at least they are considering an alternative based on some suggestions by decent players. I mean even Hitler had advisors right? JUST JOKING GOD

I'd like to reiterate what a few people have said here. Regarding the whole getting banned for creating too many accounts thing: this was put into place because some time ago someone created a bunch of bots and they made a million accounts all at once, practically shutting down the entire master (or something to that devastating effect). Like cybershark said, if you try to create a certain number of accounts in a certain amount of time (5 or so I guess) you'll get banned. I don't know why you'd need to create that many accounts, but it doesn't seem TOO harsh.

Going back to the aliasing deal, there is more to it than an old idea. It's clear that the ZD admins want almost total control of who is and who is not playing their port. I have not looked into this at all, but I'm not sure if this also applies to unadvertised servers or not. I'd hope not, but I assume differently. If it does apply, well... now we're getting into paranoia.

which'd be great if ZD had personal assistants, secretaries, tea/coffee makers, masseurs, etc. But they don't. So, yeah...

They did have this at one point. Actually, I'd bet there is still a few decent people around there that would be willing to do these sorts of things. They should totally find out who they are and use them. ZDaemon has been plagued by piss poor PR for the better half of a decade. Why not get Evo and... well, I guess that's the only guy I can think of. Notice I left out Dannyboy. People who are enthusiastic about the game and additionally are not assholes is a huge plus when you're trying to entice people to play your port.

Zandronum should not go down this road. Although I have yet to play 1.0 (I do plan on doing it soon) I have to say a login system seems quite paranoid and unnecessary. They also seem to be doing a decent job with their moderators and ops (although to be fair, this assessment is from a distance) despite the fact that there are 800 of you. Budget cuts?

[Metal]

Zandronum should not go down this road. Although I have yet to play 1.0 (I do plan on doing it soon) I have to say a login system seems quite paranoid and unnecessary. They also seem to be doing a decent job with their moderators and ops (although to be fair, this assessment is from a distance) despite the fact that there are 800 of you. Budget cuts?

But they're my minions doing my evil bidding ;_;

[Xenaero]

I love you CShark, but one thing i really don't understand is how, or why certain people, including yourself constantly blindly defend a buch of facist, overzealous ban happy morons who's only method of dealing with any situation is to ban everybody involved.

Well, it's fairly clear that at this point they've alienated themselves from the major chunk of the MP Doom community, and that affects how newcomers view them, most certainly. It's pretty easy to say if you don't like how they do things, there are much better alternatives out there. That's what's so awesome about the source for Doom being open. Thank you id software. And Randy Heit by proxy, since all major MP ports use the ZDoom engine!

[Reach Term]

I have been waiting for the right moment to jump in, and that seems like now! Allow me to introduce myself to those of you unaware of the greatness you are witnessing: former super moderator of the old skulltag forums/fnf organizer/beta tester/carn's bitch, former zdaemon moderator/zds and tournament organizer/op/avatar approver, former neutral doom port player, current odamex nitro co-organizer (SHOUT OUT TO MY MAIN BOYS HEX AND SOUL) and current IDL Commissioner. Phew, glad that is over with. Too bad that doesn't fit on a real resume.

Let me start out by saying that the creation of this new port as well as the whole open source deal is pretty cool. The only thing I like to make fun of is the name. Acceptable alternatives: Zorbalwerb, Zingotrog, Zafraldax, and Zippowov. I want credit for whichever one you choose. ANYWAY about that whole alias protection thing: it's been talked about since 2006 (you know... since the release of 1.08 :X) so it's not something new. Aliases were something to worry about back then because they had a playerbase. Now it seems silly but at least they are considering an alternative based on some suggestions by decent players. I mean even Hitler had advisors right? JUST JOKING GOD

I'd like to reiterate what a few people have said here. Regarding the whole getting banned for creating too many accounts thing: this was put into place because some time ago someone created a bunch of bots and they made a million accounts all at once, practically shutting down the entire master (or something to that devastating effect). Like cybershark said, if you try to create a certain number of accounts in a certain amount of time (5 or so I guess) you'll get banned. I don't know why you'd need to create that many accounts, but it doesn't seem TOO harsh.

Going back to the aliasing deal, there is more to it than an old idea. It's clear that the ZD admins want almost total control of who is and who is not playing their port. I have not looked into this at all, but I'm not sure if this also applies to unadvertised servers or not. I'd hope not, but I assume differently. If it does apply, well... now we're getting into paranoia.

which'd be great if ZD had personal assistants, secretaries, tea/coffee makers, masseurs, etc. But they don't. So, yeah...

They did have this at one point. Actually, I'd bet there is still a few decent people around there that would be willing to do these sorts of things. They should totally find out who they are and use them. ZDaemon has been plagued by piss poor PR for the better half of a decade. Why not get Evo and... well, I guess that's the only guy I can think of. Notice I left out Dannyboy. People who are enthusiastic about the game and additionally are not assholes is a huge plus when you're trying to entice people to play your port.

Zandronum should not go down this road. Although I have yet to play 1.0 (I do plan on doing it soon) I have to say a login system seems quite paranoid and unnecessary. They also seem to be doing a decent job with their moderators and ops (although to be fair, this assessment is from a distance) despite the fact that there are 800 of you. Budget cuts?

Quite honestly, you have always amazed me on your posting. I have always respected you and shall always will. In fact, you're the only people who has ever held power(on all ports) that I've respected over the years.