Priv direction that needs to be addressed now

[n3mesis]

I am kind of new and therefore dont play perfectly but know how to play! Everyone makes mistakes! You should give like 3 warnings, then ban. I would have 1 warning for being clueless on 1 map...

[HeavenWraith]

Looks like I picked the wrong time to resign from GV adminship after all. Sorry Konar, didn't see this coming.

Anyway, in my opinion, the situation is not as out of control as some of you think. Let's analyze these three possible situations:

• The current server population consists purely of players, who have no clue as to what is priv and hardly care. The answer is obvious - nobody cares, everyone's happy. The situation when there are only privers in the server is analogical.
• The majority of current server population consists of players, who frequently participate in priv. Obviously, it may be potentially unfair to some of the players who have to handle the consequences of having a scrub on your team. However, if the scrub is willing and trying to become better, the players, in my opinion, should coach him, while on the other hand the scrub should not take the criticisms as a personal siege on his ego. Both parties should be interesting in helping each other out. If that's not the case, one of them will have to suffer (either the scrub gets kicked out or he drags down his team in a priv match). From the administrative point of view, it should be handled on a case by case basis. If a guy is known to be a douchebag and he blatantly disrupts the priv for his own amusement, the mods should obviously act accordingly.
• The majority of current server population consists of players, who have no clue as to what is priv and how you play in it. A perfect description of the situation in GV priv in late 2011 (?). They way I did things was like this - this is a priv server and if there's at least on person in the server who wants to play priv with all rules being applied, then everyone in the server is forced to abide. Such politics were meant to counter factions of scrubs, who thought they owned the server and can do whatever they want just because there's a majority of them.

While the GV password system is very handy and help the admins (and players too) a lot, it is important to not set the threshold too high. Additionally, the CTF skills should not be the only thing taken into consideration. Scrubs, who are nice to people, not full of themselves and are willing to take advice/criticism from their seniors are generally more accepted than pricks are (captain obvious strikes again), which means that admins should also evaluate social skills/traits of the person, who asks for a password.

While the ability and inability to play CTF properly is somewhat of a vague reason to ban someone for, I personally have never tolerated taking forever to pick a map/organize your team, not revealing one's identity when asked, leaving mid-game, going afk mid-game more than once a game once a day (there was no set threshold, it was more or less set on one's reputation (see capo and how he got banned over and over for afking daily) and sometimes the reason did justify the offense) and intentionally slacking/fooling around during the game. Ultimately it depends on the views of the admin in question, but I suggest one shouldn't tolerate these offenses and it will help the priv become a better place for everyone.

And the last note. I do realize there are not a whole lot of people who can effectively administrate a priv server, not necessarily because they're stupid or otherwise incompetent, there are a lot of factors to be considered. Regardless, I'd like to note that the involvement of both administrating powers and the playerbase are necessary to succeed in changing the current situation. Nobody's guilty in this situation, so let's just everyone do their best and make priv a better experience.

P. S. I vote for option [2].

[Tenchu]

And another thing we can broadcast servers that are invisible to the master server list and no one will be able to join it unless they add it to their list of custom servers.

You should probably just make the current servers public and keep the "elite" to private servers inaccessible from the master list that are invite only

This is actually a good idea and this is exactly what Total Trash on ZD did. It lowered the chance of random newbies joining the server. Sure the IP could be as easily passed around as a server password, but together it makes the process a bit more of a pain which is enough to keep some players who don't belong out.

I agree with this. It may sound crazy, but I actually support a two-tiered priv system:

• The current priv server being made into 'public priv' where priv would still take place, only a join password was set so new players could still connect and see what was going on, and if the current players thought a player was competent enough to join in on the priv, they could be PM'd the password ( that feature), join up and start playing. And if the player gets good/active enough, they could be invited to start playing in 'elite' priv.

• A second, unadvertised 'elite priv' server being made to house high-level priv games (priv right now) with the already-established core community members.

So when players decide to start up a priv, they could either go to the public priv server where you're going to get people faster but also lesser-skilled players who want to get better and have a more relaxed time, or they could go to the elite priv server where only good players are going to show up for more serious competitive games. The public priv would be helpful in getting new players into the competitive CTF scene, as regular pub CTF is just too chaotic and unorganized to get a feel for true competitive CTF. And elite priv gives the already skilled players a new place to play without having to worry about any disruptions.

Another thought. Could the solution to Priv's woes be part-technical? Perhaps some sort of DUEL32-ish start map could formalize the process of picking players or claiming roles?

YES! I wholeheartedly support this idea. I firmly believe that a start map would definitely get more people interested (especially in the public priv server if the two-tiered priv system were to be implemented) in playing because it would make choosing maps a lot easier and everyone being together in the same small map selection area would entice them not to leave as much. I would even volunteer to make this, but unfortunately a map of that scale is far beyond my capabilities. Alex please save us!

[AlexMax]

Alex please save us!

Okay!


Click for Full Size

[Watermelon]

Nice
If youre going to continue with the start map, maybe make a teleporter to the separate rooms (if you haven't) since not many people go to those maps.

[Ænima]

CTF32? :3


Do it!

[X-Ray]

Here's the way I see it. The private CTF scene here on Zandronum has been falling off a lot lately. I do believe that priv should have standards but if a player shows that they want to get involved and get improve themselves then why not? If a new player joins and just all of a sudden gets kicked its more or less just gonna make them shy away from it. If that keeps happening then the old priv players are gonna get bored playing with the same people every day and probably and stop playing (like myself) We need some variety and new blood. Besides I've always seen priv as a place for players to relax in a semi-competitive environment. If you want to play in a super uber elitist environment, then by all means, join the IDL.

Well for one water if a player wants to get involved with the private ctf give em a chance stop crying about it. We do need new blood who the fuck wants to play the same people over and over again? It's like the same thing about "old maps are boring lets get new maps". I remember i was on TS with you guys and you flipped out because Some guy didn't know how to priv why didn't you just explain to him how priv ctf works?
Not everybody goes on the forums. When i play priv, I play for fun alot of people do. If you really want to get serious ctf games going go play idl or start your own league. now when i was in IDL i played serious. I think splitting the community is even more is dumb. Just get over it like i have and many other players have.

[Tenchu]

Alex please save us!

Okay!


Click for Full Size

Oh my GOD, you are amazing. When does it hit the server shelves?

[edd]

Heres the deal, there are a maximum of like 7 actually GOOD players in zandronum priv. Zdaemon priv was revered because it was constantly filled with the highest calibre players, it is ludicrous that anyone would think improving zandronum is possible. You would be lucky to see 3 skilled players in priv, and water only accomplished that by sucking off the entire IDL channel to poke people like stall and saber to play once in a blue moon. So my point is who the FUCK cares that EazyDI (yeah we know who you're talking about water) plays a game of priv?? He's a cool guy thats interested in getting into competitive doom, he isnt degrading the shitty horrendous quality of what is skulltag priv, let the fuckin guy have fun and drop the superiority complex. You're ok at doom but you're still a new kid in community standards

[RedShirt]

You're ok at doom but you're still a new kid in community standards

This a hundred fucking times.

[Watermelon]

Heres the deal, there are a maximum of like 7 actually GOOD players in zandronum priv.

Subjective viewpoints isn't relevant to this.

Zdaemon priv was revered because it was constantly filled with the highest calibre players, it is ludicrous that anyone would think improving zandronum is possible.

While ZD was the best place for me to learn all my stuff pre-2010 before I came to skulltag, people can still grow in here. Compared to 2 years ago this place has become much better, the only way for someone to say otherwise was to either have not played or put the blindfolders on.

You would be lucky to see 3 skilled players in priv, and water only accomplished that by sucking off the entire IDL channel to poke people like stall and saber to play once in a blue moon.

Evidence please? I don't recall doing that... if you have some logs that would be nice to see.

So my point is who the FUCK cares that EazyDI (yeah we know who you're talking about water) plays a game of priv??

Incorrect, it was not EazyDI who caused this, but he did cause the exact same problem earlier. Facts straight next time please ^_^

He's a cool guy thats interested in getting into competitive doom, he isnt degrading the shitty horrendous quality of what is skulltag priv

Apparently you guys wanted to train him to become a competitive player. Probably should have started with the basics instead of handing the password out like candy and throwing someone clueless into private ctf. I figured that was common sense...

let the fuckin guy have fun and drop the superiority complex.

Sure let's have one guy have fun at the expense of everyone. Has nothing to do with a superiority complex, but I figured since your entire arguments are based off of flawed logic it's not surprising there'd be some bawwwing here.

You're ok at doom but you're still a new kid in community standards

Even though I played ZD since 2006 and started Skulltag in 2009, age is completely irrelevant and you know that; I figure I need not continue to point out how asinine this anti-logic is.

[n3mesis]

Incorrect, it was not EazyDI who caused this, but he did cause the exact same problem earlier. Facts straight next time please ^_^

Its me.

[Cyber']

Promote public CTF more so you guys can deal less with the ones who really do upset the balance of priv. More pub = more people who can stand out and get into priv.

Most people search for the priv pass because it's the only CTF server that frequently sees play.

[Slyfox]

[quote=Decay]As for this whole "newbies need to be taught stuff be nice" it disgusts me to see this coming from the mouths of those who have run several newbies including myself out of priv in the past. This reeks of hypocrisy.[/quote]
kind of the reason why I laughed when edd posted that

[Razgriz]

First I'd like to point out that posting on this topic on your part has been entirely subjective, as you're the only person who seems to feel the need to raise 'awareness' about a made up problem.

I know you like to see yourself as the peoples champion, but if this was such a problem I'm sure there would be a lot more people agreeing with your perceived problem.

I see that you've already made a split topic with my suggestion of making a private server to play in which is alright, but really that in itself is unnecessary if you already know everyone on a personal basis that's going to play, It's more like you're trying to show off that you're the leader of some exclusive club that only the privileged members of Zandronum can access.

Can you blame people if they want to play higher tier matches? You seem to be attacking him just because you don't see anyone else bring this up. As Decay said, it's been a problem for years, I can tell you the same and others will also echo the same message. Someone has to kick star the change. I'm sure if it were any other person you wouldn't be posting in this topic period.

random attacking of Water

Whatever beef you have with Water, take it up with PM. Most of the stuff you have said hasn't contributed much to the thread, and the things you have have been from a POV that hasn't really touched up in the scene in a long while. Don't be surprised when people dismiss your post because you're an outsider in the competitive scene (judging from your post history, it's like you came out of hibernation just to post).

Anyways, let's keep on topic before I hand out warnings. Constructive criticism, Ideas, etc.

[Reach Term]

You know, I can't see why people are getting their bitch tits on whenever someone wants to make doom a little better. Kinda annoying as heck imo. Water, keep up the good work! I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[Catastrophe]

...But didn't Edd just mention how zdaemon priv was more superior than zandronum priv?

Oh, and also.



Anyways, I don't understand why you people are over blowing this, it's just a simple password change... right?

Plus, the entire basis for priv IS elitism, the better players play priv while the not so good players start up pub and enjoy themselves. Why do you people want crappy players in priv when they will only get picked once and then sit out the next 10 rounds because the server got more people?

[Cyber']

Okay I believe this has gone far off topic.

Morale of story: more pub for less scrub.

[Hammerfest-]

Elitism the thread.

I support.

[Ænima]

I agree that reviving pub is the best solution. And I believe that the upcoming account system has the potential to do just that.

What I envision is a mod that stores players' stats across sessions (based on their account ID# which can hypothetically be accessed by ACS). Stats like average K/D ratio, average captures/assists per game, etc. A script automatically balances teams based on players' skill (no more rediculously-stacked teams). The mod may also be able to send stats to an external database, if necessary. That way players can view their stats via web browser.