Goodbye Mobius

[Mobius]

I am back at it again on one of those huge topic stuff. So you know what to expect if I made this more than 2 paragraphs and it's an issue I feel passionate about.

It has come to my attention as of late that there's a new trend hitting Doom and one that's been steadily increasing as the lingering older demographic mature into adulthood (elsewhere as well). That adulthood carrying into Doom as more of a legacy game and instead a legacy to a person's reputation for what they want to see or rather narrate has become apparently troubling. This activity is strikingly noticeable with advent of Discord's popularity as one of our main communication mediums, and that there exist a very glaring overlap of special interest groups populating about. A surge of centralized sentiment where it neither escapes nor is refuted seems to be the hip and new thing. One can refute by claiming it isn't anything new you'll be right on a technical level, but irc only allowed smaller bastions of proverbial "safespaces" on a given network and Zandronum's own centralization was quite more "arbitrary" than your local channel.

To put it short: opinions couldn't readily be silenced or one sided; Though, it is true you could be removed from a channel on a network it doesn't stop it from spilling on another channel in that same network. The exchange of that information was a lot more readily accessible. Any unidentified individual could stumble on both arguments and discern what is or isn't true, but such sentiment now seems not only discouraged but immediately snuffed out under a suppose guise if "anti-drama" or purging of toxicity. The problem arises: when toxicity is contained instead without confrontation.

"So what of it? Why is this an issue? No one wants to put up with each other's bullshit Mobius so why do you want to relive that again?" It isn't about reliving drama from the past but rather seeing drama from the past fermenting unchallenged to newer people whom are wholly ignorant of the entire truth to eventually foment in an egregious asymmetrical-narrative. We've all done this. The problem is when untruth and lies perpetuate with no immediate allowance to dispute it. Most of our history in Doom is laden in conflict, but conflict entails two sides battling over a narrative until a truth is absolute between them. You couldn't remove that no matter what you tried and many, better people, have done exactly that. My concern is a slowly growing tension of uncontested opinions that are protected not from public but rather done publicly with no recourse.

"The world is being engulfed in "truth."

Things said in private places is absolutely fine and we're long past the days of pastebins (since we use screencaps now); however, so are the times when we fought and argue over a point. Long story short? I've seen a large spike of half truths, spins, and disparaging lies circulating here, there, and everywhere. Somewhere along the lines we traded security for integrity and it doesn't just bug me: it concerns me. There's a heighten level of alienation I and many others are falling victim to and there's specific reasons as the cause of such isolation: foreign interest (communities outside of this one playing politics) and personal. The former has always been a thing so we could address it downward along the line, but the personal one is fairly recent. It was only recently my latest monolithic style of discussion focused on Blitz and his threats of doxing/ddosing minors, but he was a symptom of an underlying dilemma. We've become too personal or allowed our personal lives to seep into what is really an impersonal hobby. Is it really worth this level of insulation? Have we become so afraid of each other? You may say fatigue: I say cowardice. You'll understand a bit in my concluding 2 paragraphs.

The truth is that: an objective and undeniable occurrence or statement whether it's historical or personal. What I see nowadays is far from that (at least pastebins demonstrated this by log sharing). What we are seeing now is falsehoods being spread around as truth and more insidious is that we not run from it but encourage it. There are people who actively engage in spreading disinfo and libel but they're the first to abrogate any dissidence even if real or perceived where it has not have been. Why? So a lie can go uninterrupted. Why is that important? There's an unspoken influx of new users who aren't new to doom but have acquired a taste in Zandronum and nowadays it has become increasingly more difficult to defend yourself. It's like we're reliving 2010 except instead of a centralized administration that dispenses any narrative not approved by the status quo (which could publicly be fought against) you have small pockets of special interest groups shape sentiment unopposed. Anyone who has been in this community long enough knows without any representation you're nobody here: must we really seek retainers?

So what can Zandronum do about libel and not the legal version of this (cause that's ridiculous.. so far). What can we possibly do to fix falsehoods and disseminate truth. Do we confront each other here? There? Anywhere? This has always been a complaint of mine and my group since Jenobyl when we challenged Jenova to produce people that agree with him and make a case on their own behalf (not to drudge that up Jenova we both moved on from that). The point I am making is one of pure contention: are we not allowed to defend ourselves anymore in the face of adversity? I have always been a staunch advocate for people to openly defend a position they have especially not to hide from opposition, and with a potential community merger there's some deep seeded politics that will eventually collide and conflict with our native procedures.

I think we should be very careful who is whispering things in our ears.

[BlushBerry]

I agree on the fact that people should be allowed to defend themselves and speak publicly on certain matters for everyone to view in on and voice their own opinions. This ultimately could cause what is known as "Conflict and Resolution". Sweeping things under the rug isn't really something I myself tend to lean towards however in our community Nuclear Empire we've sort of shunned the idea of speaking publicly about things like this because we felt it was "Toxic" and other members diddn't need to see that. But when it really boils down to it, alot of Zandronum community members are usually adults (At least in my common interactions) and being able to put our thoughts open on the table is an excellent way to include the community as a whole and come to a resolution.

I agree as well that Discord has made it very easy to bar users from seeing what goes on behind the scenes or even deleting posts that they feel don't meet their criteria in what is classified as "truth".

I myself am going to be making a few changes in our community to not shun the idea of openly calling out someone for any sort of misdeed or disallow someone from defending themselves to have a "Staff member" handle it instead.

All in all transparency I believe needs to be much more prevalent in our community otherwise things will just continue going down this bad path.

[Razgriz]

All of these discords are not even under Zandronum, and all the owners have the rights to run it the way they want, and they choose to just shut out people they don't like. What are those reasons and is it deserved? Who know, to them it's probably justified, and we already know reputation is constant here regardless of what happens. Once you're seen as a different way and get known for that, you done sealed the deal.

[Doomkid]

If I'm understanding correctly, you seem to basically be saying that, regardless of the subject matter or specific community, remaining too insular is unhealthy and lop-sided and that is surely a sentiment I can agree with on the whole, but at the moment my main concern is tumbleweeds moreso than echo chambers when it comes to the topic of the classic MP Doom community. Your post is too vague overall for me to feel super strongly one way or the other. What actually prompted this shpeel and Who is being silenced? What opinions aren't being given the time of day? Is this even referring to playing Doom specifically or just online communities in general? I'm left with more questions than answers.

You mentioned reputation in your post and I'm wondering exactly what it is you're getting at there as well. From my perspective, reputation is an ever changing thing, so if that is a concern of yours the best time to work on changing it is from right now onward, if that's something you're interested in doing, but I'm really not sure what to take away from all this. I tried to adsorb what it is you're saying but some of your wording is murky. Eloquent but difficult to decipher.

[Lollipop]

We can't really enforce that people who run their own discord servers and the like adhere to some sort of administrative standard of zandronum administration. The administration could inspect the workings of discord servers and hand out "approval stamps" some those that are considered OK by such a hypothetical set of standards but it simply isn't something that is going to be sustainable.

However, Doomkid's concern with tumbleweeds in not entirely disconnected from this. If the collective demographic of zandronum players is split up into echo chambers then what will ensue is that when someone comes by they will either (a) end up joining an echo chamber for any reason and the misery worsens or (b) happily stumble upon the part of the community that isn't comprised of drama zealots or (c) give up, leave and do something else with their free time.

Community is some complicated stuff, so these things kind of connect. I just don't see how we can do jack doodly about it.
The only, kind of unrealistic, approach I can see is if we could somehow build up the visibility of the port in the public arena together with the part of the community that we would consider being the ideal landing place for the new members, which for example could be this very forum.
New members is a bit of a fringe topic, though, so I'll leave it at that.

[Mobius]

All of these discords are not even under Zandronum, and all the owners have the rights to run it the way they want, and they choose to just shut out people they don't like. What are those reasons and is it deserved? Who know, to them it's probably justified, and we already know reputation is constant here regardless of what happens. Once you're seen as a different way and get known for that, you done sealed the deal.

That's not entirely the point. It isn't about people exercising their power to silence people in the community. The point is what happens after: people silence opposition and then speak falsehoods and half-truths without contention on purpose. One I can understand but the latter is a position someone should equally appreciate: the defense of your reputation. Who really should dictate what your reputation is? Why should it be so forever? Why can it not change with the times? Things weren't the same as they were 8 years ago despite us living that period in a different way so why should a reputation be constant? And why can't someone actively fight it if they don't like it especially unsubstantiated hearsay, gossip, and blatant lies.

What's a good example of a reputation that can change with reform?
Oh.. right. That happens to be me. I'm a living working example of reform along Decay. The latter having a whole topic dedicated by Zandronum's own head admin about how he is allowed to be an asshole and people wanting him out.

So no: a reputation isn't permanent. It is only if you let it.

If I'm understanding correctly, you seem to basically be saying that, regardless of the subject matter or specific community, remaining too insular is unhealthy and lop-sided and that is surely a sentiment I can agree with on the whole, but at the moment my main concern is tumbleweeds moreso than echo chambers when it comes to the topic of the classic MP Doom community

The tumbleweeds partially comes from people just getting bored with the same-old and the upcoming swath of insulation that has taken forth. The former moreso but the latter doesn't help the current situation any.

Your post is too vague overall for me to feel super strongly one way or the other. What actually prompted this shpeel and Who is being silenced? What opinions aren't being given the time of day? Is this even referring to playing Doom specifically or just online communities in general? I'm left with more questions than answers.

Well the idea is to generate a discussion here and pick each other's brains on solutions or even outlook. Things we can work on even if it's just perspective like viewing our community's behavior. Whether or not I am the only person here or if others notice it and if so what have we seen? What can we observe? I'm never shy from openly engaging a conversation about this.

You mentioned reputation in your post and I'm wondering exactly what it is you're getting at there as well. From my perspective, reputation is an ever changing thing, so if that is a concern of yours the best time to work on changing it is from right now onward, if that's something you're interested in doing, but I'm really not sure what to take away from all this. I tried to adsorb what it is you're saying but some of your wording is murky. Eloquent but difficult to decipher.

That's correct. A reputation can flux and change even if there's a baseline sentiment of a person. I am not in concern so much as mine and don't know about changing mine from onward because that's is wholly contingent on participating parties that may allow me to either interact with them or openly asking questions here in an awkward display of seeking community approval: the former I prefer and hence the entire premise of my topic. A topic that has nothing to really do with me, but the activity put forth in general. The issue I'm bringing forward is one where a person cannot defend themselves and fix their reputation from malicious slander and defamatory rumors. Those are real issues to a person's reputation and my question. There is no allowance because malign forces seek to sabotage a person's image and without a platform then hearsay becomes truth. That wasn't entirely different long ago, but long ago it was only done from centralized figures. My concern is further fragmentation and alienation that could drive people away.

We can't really enforce that people who run their own discord servers and the like adhere to some sort of administrative standard of zandronum administration. The administration could inspect the workings of discord servers and hand out "approval stamps" some those that are considered OK by such a hypothetical set of standards but it simply isn't something that is going to be sustainable.

There is nothing the staff can do about this and it's something I rather not get a governing body to oversee. What I want to know is what can people who don't have that level of authority do to combat slander: what options can a person use. Long ago forums were a bit more frantic in allowance of specific topics being discussed but likewise dubious rules enforced. I'm more or less looking for peaceful and civil alternatives, resolutions, or just plain old insight.

Community is some complicated stuff, so these things kind of connect. I just don't see how we can do jack doodly about it.
The only, kind of unrealistic, approach I can see is if we could somehow build up the visibility of the port in the public arena together with the part of the community that we would consider being the ideal landing place for the new members, which for example could be this very forum.
New members is a bit of a fringe topic, though, so I'll leave it at that.

My preferred method is simply taking the fight to someone, but alas that doesn't seem like a viable option. I wouldn't mind an arena of free thought, but.. that was done in the past and fortunately should remain there. We could perhaps move to a more open discussion but it'd just turn into a flame fest. It's one of those things, but that's why I made a thread.

[Razgriz]

That's not entirely the point. It isn't about people exercising their power to silence people in the community. The point is what happens after: people silence opposition and then speak falsehoods and half-truths without contention on purpose. One I can understand but the latter is a position someone should equally appreciate: the defense of your reputation. Who really should dictate what your reputation is? Why should it be so forever? Why can it not change with the times? Things weren't the same as they were 8 years ago despite us living that period in a different way so why should a reputation be constant? And why can't someone actively fight it if they don't like it especially unsubstantiated hearsay, gossip, and blatant lies.

What's a good example of a reputation that can change with reform?
Oh.. right. That happens to be me. I'm a living working example of reform along Decay. The latter having a whole topic dedicated by Zandronum's own head admin about how he is allowed to be an asshole and people wanting him out.

Reputation is constant as long as you are not working to changing it. It doesn't sound wrong to believe that if you had beef or did something against person A, and you never worked to remedy that potential mistake with that person. So what happens after? Person A is always going to talk to people about you the way of your last impression. You may have changed and done different things since then but you already left your mark on Person A and they will gladly talk about how you are because that's how they know you. You want to fight the blatant lies during a time where it's basically too late - the Doom community and the discords associated have a very low tolerance level now and if you already have been known to be causing trouble before, even if it isn't true anymore, it's a basis for pre-emptive removal or easy removal. Doing nothing bad is not the same as actively working towards changing people's minds, I haven't done anything wrong only proves change based on those you have worked on, not those who you haven't.

The issue I'm bringing forward is one where a person cannot defend themselves and fix their reputation from malicious slander and defamatory rumors. Those are real issues to a person's reputation and my question. There is no allowance because malign forces seek to sabotage a person's image and without a platform then hearsay becomes truth. That wasn't entirely different long ago, but long ago it was only done from centralized figures. My concern is further fragmentation and alienation that could drive people away.

Who is being driven away? You can get 'chased out' and then go and create/join a new one with people you like - It's very easy to do this regardless of how disliked you are. This happened all the time, and in terms of the A3 discord people have left and joined more favorable discords, so what's the deal? Someone leaves on bad terms and then they say whatever they want about you, but now you want to fight it because...it may not be true? But this is what you wanted to be seen as, from them and their people, and their peoples' people, so now in our low tolerance for bullshit era for Doom, people speak and are very glad to talk about how you are and remove or highly consider it.

There is nothing the staff can do about this and it's something I rather not get a governing body to oversee. What I want to know is what can people who don't have that level of authority do to combat slander: what options can a person use.

The option is what it's always been: don't act that way and work towards fixing it, and yes doing nothing wrong doesn't constitute as trying all the way. It requires getting involved which a lot of people don't do.

[Mobius]

Reputation is constant as long as you are not working to changing it. It doesn't sound wrong to believe that if you had beef or did something against person A, and you never worked to remedy that potential mistake with that person. So what happens after? Person A is always going to talk to people about you the way of your last impression. You may have changed and done different things since then but you already left your mark on Person A and they will gladly talk about how you are because that's how they know you.

In that scenario and as I've personally experienced here: no amount of trying ever works. A person who wants nothing to do with you will have nothing to do with you. You cannot fix all relationships and trying your best to do that is futile and a waste of time; however, one person isn't a whole community and your premise is that a reputation is stagnate which is fallacious since people (like me) have a dualistic alignment depending on who you ask. Ideally it would be beneficial for all parties to convene and discuss our differences, but usually the least idealistic approach tends to be favored and thus becomes more of a realistic approach.

You want to fight the blatant lies during a time where it's basically too late

It is never too late.

the Doom community and the discords associated have a very low tolerance level now and if you already have been known to be causing trouble before, even if it isn't true anymore, it's a basis for pre-emptive removal or easy removal.

That isn't exactly true either, but neither is the topic about me.

Doing nothing bad is not the same as actively working towards changing people's minds, I haven't done anything wrong only proves change based on those you have worked on, not those who you haven't.

That is supposition. A person who hasn't done anything hasn't done anything. You can't assume someone will or has done anything without evidence. This doesn't excuse fabrications either which is a negative (as the perpetuated is both incorrect and potentially malicious). Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right.

Who is being driven away? You can get 'chased out' and then go and create/join a new one with people you like - It's very easy to do this regardless of how disliked you are. This happened all the time, and in terms of the A3 discord people have left and joined more favorable discords, so what's the deal? Someone leaves on bad terms and then they say whatever they want about you, but now you want to fight it because...it may not be true? But this is what you wanted to be seen as, from them and their people, and their peoples' people, so now in our low tolerance for bullshit era for Doom, people speak and are very glad to talk about how you are and remove or highly consider it.

You're talking about it as if it's a form of penalization. My position in this entire thread has been rather neutral because it doesn't solely involve the mechanisms of my group (which is why I didn't mention them). My group, as you know first hand, doesn't remove people unless they plan to raid. There is no lie spread there a person cannot easily return or dispute on the spot (since, again no one is ever banned or removed unless absolutely warranted); however, that isn't important nor relevant because the working model in that specific group doesn't meet the criteria of what I am describing. As for the era? Well then that's admitting there has been a change in climate and how procedure is handled.

The option is what it's always been: don't act that way and work towards fixing it, and yes doing nothing wrong doesn't constitute as trying all the way. It requires getting involved which a lot of people don't do.

There's more than one way to fix an issue. Sometimes peace isn't always an answer.

Pokemon image

Small note: When you make a relevant image of someone.. it's good to hammer out the details. I don't know why Doomworld is there, but I guess you want doomworld to be involved? You want me to name the doomworlder? Am I attacking Zandronum? How am I confused? Are you confused? I didn't mention anybody in particular so you interpret information from? Lead me to water.. What exactly is this message conveying that I haven't.

I do agree: I have the most HP between those two combined so that does make me formidably tougher than either community.

Honestly, this topic reeks of paranoid lunacy. Bones summed it up well and so did dew.

Can't Bones speak on his own behalf here? Isn't that the point of this discussion? He could always disagree. Don't you find it ironic you are posting logs from the distance of a media instead of those people actively voicing their own opinions here? The premise of the thread is exactly about that, but yet here you are.. and why you exactly? Why Bones? Let's address it formally:

HumanBones "It’s just a fancy post that says “don’t you miss the good old days when shitheads didn’t get banned and were impossible to control”

Before I fact check you: I'm going to respectfully refute under the courtesy of this discussion as par my intent but I feel under no obligation should I fight with people who can't represent themselves; in other words, unless you are here to speak there's no reason for us to engage. I am speaking on an open forum. You aren't. That's the point of this thread.

Now keep in mind: no. Actually "shitheads" are as out of control as they were back in the day. In fact, I'd wager that this type of behavior (decay coming in to disrespect me unprovoked) is exactly that kind of behavior that one could consider "shithead," but I won't flame anyone. This topic is of no description nor do I see it relating to how shitheads are handle: I find dishonesty to be equally shitty, and that is my focus.

[8:44 PM] dewsome: I find that post amazing... So much effort, so much careful intellectual wording... And nothing is said at all
[8:45 PM] dewsome: Just empty pontificating about "people are afraid of me because I troll em good
[8:48 PM] dewsome: It must be hard typing all that out with one hand because you're jacking it with your main

Same as before that is said to Bones. I decided not to edit this quote but all the same unnecessarily defamatory and cowardly: the entire premise of my thread.

So what are all these incidents? Who are these people? Why don't you drop names, incidents, contexts? This sounds awfully like Jenova's "many people in pms" - no names no proofs. All this is speculative bullshit to try and get people riled up. Wait a sec, didn't you just mention Jenova here too?

Don't you also find that hilarious? A thread to get people riled up, but you replied.. with people riled up and emotionally charged (Dewww moreso than Bones). I made no forward accusation because there's an insufficient amount of evidence, but why should I name drop anyone and cause unneeded drama? Do you feel personally involved to quickly attack my position? I wouldn't say refute because the preamble is a mockery of me (despite the HP disparity).

Am I saying something I'm not allowed to say?

What's this shit about open discussion? Don't you mute people and give them isolation roles in your own discord if they disagree with you? Don't you rely on other people to say things for you instead of directly pm'ing people and talking things over?

Why is this about me? Why is this about you? I won't get into that because apparently one could already extrapolate a story, but let me fact check you extremely hard here since you aren't on our discord and get hearsay from compromised sources.

Our discord doesn't ban anyone unless they come to raid. That's it. The silence role was initially made for Blitz's girlfriend who was nothing but an instigator (as we saw from the previous thread: I made the right call). The "punished" role was more of a joke to traumatize Megamans with shock-art and seldom have I used it to silence anyone seriously. The only real instances of that happens to involve Razgriz who, after spamming my discord, mass highlights, creating channels for mass highlights, and even mass highlights in other discords had to be reigned in and reprimanded (hence his demotion) upon an incident involving Doom's 25th Anniversary. The same person who deleted a channel for a tournament team he was on and caused that mayhem during a team practice justifies disciplinary action. Here's another fact: Galactus has only seldom been "Punished" and he runs amok with a history of disagreements on any sort of position. He has the distinction of a @wrong again but that's besides the point: he was never silenced. He had left on his own and I invited him back (he's with us now). I may regret it sometimes, but to accuse me of dispensing the same treatment is impeccably wrong. We have a channel made for people to fight or dispute it out over petty nonsense called "Doom_shit_talks" though it can happen anywhere.

Long story short: our culture, as always, is one of conflict and debate among ourselves. Not of silence.

That's entirely what this is about whether you like it or not. You and some friends are upset you can't carry on your bullshit anywhere but your own discord.

Actually we're in a lot of discords but this has nothing to do with us.

So why do you care then? [2:59 AM] Mobius: this place can die for all I care

Is someone not allowed to defend themselves?

your reputation is built on your actions. Your actions are defined by insincerity, disguised trolling, antagonism, and targeting people. This topic isn't about unification at all, and anybody with half a brain can easily recognize that this is about not being able to generate further drama because most people are fucking tired of it and would rather pre-emptively ban than waste time with you with the same inevitable response. "You may say fatigue: I say cowardice." It is fatigue. We've been doing this song and dance for almost a decade. Nobody is interested in having data collectors in their servers either.

Besides most of that being extremely untrue which I wouldn't mind getting into: it has nothing to do with the thread. Why are you targeting me exclusively if I have not targeted anyone? Are you against someone defending themselves?

I'm mildly offended about this comparison. You never changed, you simply didn't have a psychopathetic admin banning you for no reason after you were unbanned.

What? That's actually proof of change. I was banned for no reason by someone who was irresponsible, and then when given a proper chance I "improved," unless you imply I didn't need a chance and that I was already an acceptable member of the community?

This smacks of one big role play. Like you're pretending this is a soap opera drama. You are a grown-ass man. You should probably find a better hobby instead of acting like some overly dramatic anime school girls on forums for a community you don't give a shit about.

Trolling, flame-bait, and personal attacks. It seems as though the reasons for your unbanning was misplaced if this is how you treat a discussion. Who vouched for your unbanning by the way?

Oh.. that was me.

[Mobius]

I almost thought your post was worth dissecting to reply to but then I remembered it's one big ol' "gottem" troll.

There are legitimate questions and points in that post worth addressing.

"Why are you making it about you?" says the guy who makes a direct comparison/mention of me. "Are you saying I was already an acceptable member of the community?" Not at all, you just were banned for silly things, when you are certainly worth banning for larger things. In the end, you're a net negative to the community no matter what text-generator you use to fluff up a post, and the proof of this is found in the very creation of the topic itself.

The comparison was to prove that reputation is in flux and can change, and especially with one who has become a lot more infamous and synonymous with dickery.

Secondly: So I am not an acceptable member of the community? Why? How can you determine that and say I am worthy of bans, but then the bans I gotten weren't worthy? So by what criteria are you operating on? Was the bans issued on me not sufficient? Then what was sufficient? Who determines my value to the community? Are you making that determination? Someone else? Who are they to determine my value?

The proof of my negative to the community is a topic I made for open discussion you took it upon yourself to sling personal attacks and derail a topic? I am not acceptable but my bans weren't either, but then no ban is but somehow I should be?

Anyone who actually still cares about the community knows you don't care.

Supposition.

You don't play

Play what? I'm extremely active in the community. What am I not playing? What MUST I play to be relevant? Is there an approved set of wads commissioned by some community that makes such a determination? Who are they? What authority do they have? What authority do you have?

you actively try to overshadow or mute doom related events because "8bdm is better" and hey didn't I hear a lot of discontent spilling over from there?

Evidence? You mean advertising for a paid league in doom that I actively play in? Is that a crime? I go on multiple discords to shill out my event? Is that bad?

What doom event did I mute?

The megamanifesto or some shit? Sounded awfully familiar to me. Seems there is a common denominator when it comes to the complaints!

Off topic.

You don't usually do things without a point, even if you pretend to yourself that this wasn't caused by a particular incident.

The point is in the thread that I have made multiple times.

You're so caught up in playing some sort of game and dragging everyone along with you that it can't have come out of nowhere. Something prompted this and I'd give it a good guess that it was probably my criticism of your dbab map "criticism" and slight at forage, now you're throwing a tantrum under the guise of trying to help the community.

Supposition and troll-bait.

Nobody is falling for it, nothing is going to change the way people run their discords, and people will say whatever they know. Maybe you shouldn't have fucked up so much in the beginning to warrant whatever is being said by whoever, wherever it is allegedly happening

This topic isn't about discords. Is there something you've done that would make you feel guilty for something? Am I saying the wrong thing here? Am I not allowed to ask questions?

[Doomkid]

play doom instead of the forum

[M_Ragequit]

You're telling me you don't enjoy being treated like a community bully despite having "Community bully" in your user title?
I would never expect this kind of outcome, especially when methods for keeping unwanted individuals away are more plentiful and easier to use than ever before, not to mention the decade of drama that has transpired because those methods weren't used.

Despite what it may seem like, you're not playing victim at all, you're just a victim of modern problems demanding modern solutions.
People can and will hold grudges against you after you behave like you don't want to be kept around, you knew this all along and you still didn't take it seriously, now you pay the price by being shittalked in places you can't reach;
I see no problem with this.

Maybe I'm just misinterpreting what you're trying to say, maybe because you can't help but use big words and sophisticated language that dulls everything out, or maybe because you circle-jerk for 2 paragraphs and somehow STILL always lead back into "fuck you, get trolled";
If this is the case, I take no responsibility for my misinterpretation because I have stared at your mile-long posts for half an hour trying to decypher just what the fuck you're trying to say.

tl;dr you're an adult, act like you are, or at least try.

[nax]

I read this thread knowing the details that have been occurring around the various sub communities connected to Zandronum. It'd be one thing if this thread came out when IRC started dying out and Discords were popping up creating "walled gardens". That much I agree with, the face of communities have now changed, and when you dislike the policies of the main branch you can far more easily segregate yourself into communities that behave the way you want, and are justified by the number of people who come to you. But this did not happen. This thread only happened after you and others started getting blacklisted from many communities. It's an utter lie to suggest there's zero subtext to your OP. And because of this attempt at baiting some and drudging up the support of others who are ignorant of these circumstances that lead to this post I decided I'd reply and get you to actually give specifics to your points. Strangle decided to post first and then a follow up by Decay, and while I've been opposed to the tone in Decay's reply in general on these forums since taking over, I wanted to see your responses because they asked the relevant questions or got you to be more specific. So, I decided to wait for three things.

1) Abdicating your responsibility for your own reputation.

I am not in concern so much as mine and don't know about changing mine from onward because that's is wholly contingent on participating parties that may allow me to either interact with them or openly asking questions here in an awkward display of seeking community approval

2) Admitting that the topic was bait for the "parties" involved

Don't you also find that hilarious? A thread to get people riled up, but you replied..

3) Finally, this one is more complex. I waited for you to rationalize your reasons for making this thread. You bring your self-inflicted drama onto my doorstep for a reason. What's the reason? Obviously you don't want to talk it out. You could have directly messaged people, or privately messaged people. You could have hashed out your issues with any number of people. You even did this at my behest when you first joined Megaman and admittedly were unfairly targeted back then, and while there are still people who don't like you overall you were able to integrate. But instead, you created this thread on this forum, on a forum that has long since stopped tolerating intercommunity drama to both bait the people you felt had slighted you into provocation here so that WE could deal with them, and while using them as examples for those who are ignorant of Skulltag/ Zandronum history as well as the things going on in various zandronum communities in the past year. What amuses me is that Decay baited you more than you baited Decay, because the more you rationalized this the more damning it looks.

I'm tired of it. I thought about giving Decay warnings for his posts but then I finally understood: this is a Skulltag thread. You knew exactly what you would get out of bringing this up and here of all places. So I'm gonna allow you to have your thread - everyone gets this one last Skulltag thread to say goodbye. I considered making your own role similar to your meme roles on your discord so you could only read and post in the Trash forum instead of banning you, but I'm not making the mistake of my predecessors. So this thread is going to be the extent of my goodwill.

I went ahead and changed the topic name to something more appropriate.

[frostyflakes]

if yall were playing zandronum doom 2 hell on earth soure port instead of sitting in the zandronum doom 2 hell on earth source port forums writing fanfiction there would be no beef smhhhh; now lets all go play snow mountain ctf

[Razgriz]

[Sean]

Honest question: What

[legion]

the behavior of specific discords should not be a measuring stick. I can tell you most discords don't allow things like loli porn, but yours did. if you don't like it, leave (which is what I promptly did). there isn't really any other path of action if you feel a discord is wronging you and you have nothing left you feel you can do.

as far as clearing your name, the first thing to do would be to actually state your intentions and explain yourself in detail. maybe you can't directly defend your actions, but if you explained your reasoning behind why you took specific actions, you'd probably get more accomplished

[Zakken]

I'm mildly offended about this comparison. You never changed, you simply didn't have a psychopathetic admin banning you for no reason after you were unbanned. You can pretend all you want to try and fool the 5 people who use the forums, but I was there, I know better. Example of reform alongside me? I never changed. No signs of change holds true.

Friendly reminder that Mobius, coupled with a few others, raided a FC+ server in the middle of a match for my DCWC tournament only to mock and harass the losing team in global chat to the point where I had to manually ban them in-between rounds. After confronted, he said it was my fault for not enforcing lmsspectatorsettings. This was less than 6 months ago. Hopefully nobody bought into that victim-blaming bullshit.

Now keep in mind: no. Actually "shitheads" are as out of control as they were back in the day. In fact, I'd wager that this type of behavior (decay coming in to disrespect me unprovoked) is exactly that kind of behavior that one could consider "shithead," but I won't flame anyone.

This is your only accurate statement in this entire thread. I mean...

We know already. The problem with you is that you don't get enough attention from girls outside of the internet so when you're feeling depressed and sad you take up some sort of righteous stance despite what others tell you. Then you say some stupid shit and get called on it and instead of realizing "oh shit I'm retarded as fuck" you continue to fight.

You are the worst type of scum here. Who comes in trying to tell other people what to do and parade some sort of "do something" moral activist while being inactive?

Nigga you're inactive so who honestly gives a flying fuck what you find acceptable like what is wrong with you? if you were on a discord with Bluewizard right now and told him "I am trolling A3 look!" and told me this I'd believe you because at this point you are arguing nonsense.

Also spreading negativity? This isn't a fuckin` safe space you shit eating -- you know what. I'm done with that. Anna doesn't even deserve to be brought up in the same reputation as you. You are irredeemable trash that needs a pardon for every post you make when you attempt to hijack someone else's topic to get attention. Go play in tumblr or whatever place you crawled out of with that shit "you are spreading negativity" I'd make a odamex joke but I don't have it in me anymore to continue this tired, repetitive, retard-laden ON AND ON meme warfare. Get a life.

When you turn simple Doom discussions about someone making competitive videos and concerns over the forum's activity into childish tirades of singled-out insults, and the staff does fuck all about it except lock threads and maybe hand out warnings (which resolves nothing, by the way), is it really a surprise that nobody is encouraged to use these forums anymore? You're delusional if you think the status quo of nobody wanting to "confront" others wasn't self-inflicted by you. It is ironic that you successfully killed these forums off just like you wanted, yet you were still left bitter and unsatisfied. Whether it was greed for power and relevance or just a lack of hindsight, your act has finally been laid bare for the staff to see.

Is someone not allowed to defend themselves?

If your definition of defending yourself is going "Huh? Huh? That's not true. That's not true. Huh? I have thicker skin than all Doom communities btw!", then you've already lost. Game over for you, big boy.

[Ru5tK1ng]

the behavior of specific discords should not be a measuring stick. I can tell you most discords don't allow things like loli porn, but yours did. if you don't like it, leave (which is what I promptly did). there isn't really any other path of action if you feel a discord is wronging you and you have nothing left you feel you can do.

I'm on the same page as you. I don't care for hentai culture and I don't condone loli. However, I must call you out on your fake outrage. If you truly felt that way, you'd stop using discord altogether considering they were ok with grooming discords, underage dating (with predators lurking) and higher ups being ok with loli porn as long as it was furry(cub).

[legion]

the behavior of specific discords should not be a measuring stick. I can tell you most discords don't allow things like loli porn, but yours did. if you don't like it, leave (which is what I promptly did). there isn't really any other path of action if you feel a discord is wronging you and you have nothing left you feel you can do.

I'm on the same page as you. I don't care for hentai culture and I don't condone loli. However, I must call you out on your fake outrage. If you truly felt that way, you'd stop using discord altogether considering they were ok with grooming discords, underage dating (with predators lurking) and higher ups being ok with loli porn as long as it was furry(cub).

I take action on what I can. I realize that discord has internal flaws within their own hierarchy and they are basically covering up their own bullshit. But to make my actions to the level of complete avoidance, I would basically not be able to use anything on the internet. League of Legends has had many internal issues regarding sexism, lots of current media such as movies are made by assholes, modern media is dominated by people who are detached from reality. Even Steam has major flaws when it comes to how they operate, but to abolish them for it would be basically amputating my arm if I had a scratch on it. To remove myself completely from everything that I find distasteful or even associated with distasteful things would boil down to me becoming a hermit. This is naturally not a desirable outcome for most people who wish to have any sort of contact with anybody.

It is a poor argument and anybody can realize how utterly childish it is. Perhaps I can't change Discord's hypocrisy but the best thing I can do is make everyone aware of it, and definitely avoid communities that allow such distasteful acts (like mobius's discord, for instance!). I don't buy this shit argument and I feel you don't either, but are simply throwing another jab at me, which you have a colorful history of doing! Allow me to return the favor by asking you why you are defending someone society could deem a pedophile, someone who is actively breaking Discord TOS? And why do you continue to associate yourself with him?

[Marcaek]

I'd like to toss in that Discord TOS violations should be reported to Discord: the system for reporting is in place and if they fail to act on it at least it's their failure to act.