Zandronum

I've loved doom ever since I was practically 2. Stopped playing it when i was like 10 but recently got back into it December last year when I saw skulltag. Anyways, that's not the point.

Whenever I try to make a good map (I've got fairly good mapping skills) with hopes of publicly releasing it, it just seems that no matter what I make, It wouldn't be good on Zand or even ZDoom forums. It just seems like every project released, in beta, or just a work in progress looks godly compared to my projects.

So far ive only made 2 major wads that I intended on releasing publicly, but felt like itll either get no attention or a shishload of critizism without anyone playing it.

So yeah i just feel like an idiot in the Dooming community, even though I know some stuff in it.

EDIT: Due to some demand, I may as well put the 2 wads I'm talking about up for download here.
Castle.wad

This one is only for single player. This was sort of an experimental wad in that I wanted to maximize the use of only doom 2 textures and sprites and still make it a high value wad. Probably the most amount of tags in a single map (about 70 if I can recall). It does have texture misalignments which I really don't want to spend hours on fixing, along with a few other minor issues, but overall its a challenging wad to play. Only one map, but it's very time consuming.

Survival.wad

This wad is an invasion with up to 4 possible players online (any more would make this too easy). Most of it is done, but it certainly needs more detail as well as a bit of cover. So far I've postponed it as I have other things in life to do. I'd certainly play this wad online if you can.

Becoming a professional mapper and learning everything takes time. You can look up tutorials on different sites if you need help. Also, if you don't upload some of your projects, you won't get any type of criticism. People can tell you what's right, what's wrong, and how you can make your maps better. Use feedback from others to improve yourself. Even play some maps others have made and get a good idea what makes a good map.

Nothing to be done except get better! ;p In all honesty though, there's been some pretty ugly stuff released here if you can find it. Oh yeah, and looks aren't everything.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Don't be discouraged. It is normal for the first stuff somebody makes to be bad. Post what you have, let us pick it apart, learn from the criticism (That's what it is for), and improve yourself.

EDIT: Ninja'd twice!

You could always, you know, listen to the criticism? The projects forum was designed to help people improve not massage egos.

Zap610 wrote: You could always, you know, listen to the criticism? The projects forum was designed to help people improve not massage egos.

Lets see. The one and only time I posted a project on here was a WIP of a multiplayer invasion map. I'll admit it looks a bit plain and could use more work, but overall i only got 1 post on my topic. Basically stated that I should make multileveled cliffs which would both look kinda bad and was somewhat impossible.

Just put that project on hold for now.

I'll admit it looks a bit plain and could use more work, but overall i only got 1 post on my topic.

There you go. Do a bit more work and come back with something substantial.

On another note, if you're mapping for the sake of popularity or replies you're doing it wrong. Your work should merit these on the basis of their potential or quality.

Marcaek wrote: There you go. Do a bit more work and come back with something substantial.

On another note, if you're mapping for the sake of popularity or replies you're doing it wrong. Your work should merit these on the basis of their potential or quality.

I attempt to put out quality work for the most part, but it comes down to this. If nobody will like the wad or even attempt to play it, what's the point of the release?

I gather you are talking about
http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1200

In which case, this is what it means to receive feedback. No one is just "good" at anything, it takes work, dedication, practice, and feedback. If you are making a wad for the public, it's always good to add what you think AND what they think. You're not the only one to receive feedback that you may not agree with. I'd be happy that it wasn't flaming my project or me.

W1D3A55 wrote:

Marcaek wrote: There you go. Do a bit more work and come back with something substantial.

On another note, if you're mapping for the sake of popularity or replies you're doing it wrong. Your work should merit these on the basis of their potential or quality.

I attempt to put out quality work for the most part, but it comes down to this. If nobody will like the wad or even attempt to play it, what's the point of the release?

The point is to take others criticism and use it to make your release better. Giving up implies that you're not dedicated to your project and only care about other people's opinions, and people won't take you seriously as a mapper. Creating quality work takes time and practice, and throwing out your work won't help. My early maps sucked, but I released them anyways. Since then, I've learned lots about designing maps. Don't give up and do your best. You can't become a Mechadon or an Erik Alm overnight.

If nobody will like the wad or even attempt to play it, what's the point of the release?

Don't release it until it's good enough to stand up on it's own. If you need inspiration, download some successful\popular WADs that have similar aims to your project and see what it is that makes them enjoyable.

Bump with content.

In all honesty, I completely missed that topic :S

Well, to get feedback and attention, you can make a public server with your wad, for example with help of http://[bad site] if you don't have external IP, sit there and wait, eventually you can ask some people on IRC to join and state opinions... Aaand in this point, all those people will have your wad on their computers.
It's not forums where you should get attention, IMHO, but on servers, from people playing.

Just a word of advice, you might wanna edit 'formus' to 'forums'.

IGOR FEELS LIKE HE COULD...LIKE HE COULD...

TAKE ON THE WORLD!!!

In all seriousness, W1D3A55, every person, me included, started out with bland and low quality stuff, yet I didn't hesitate in posting my projects to the ZDoom forums. I got feedback there, and people telling me how to improve, and I improved basing on those suggestions. So avoiding to post your project because it wouldn't feel up to par with other quality stuff is a stupid move on your side. If you want to improve, you have nothing else to do but show your stuff to other people. In this case, opening up a pub server with a beta of your wad is the best idea. Gather people on IRC by inviting them on #zandronum, for example, make them test your wad, and listen to their suggestions.

Also, improvement doesn't happen in a flash, it takes time. So don't absolutely get discouraged. Because starting from my quite bland and crappy mapping, I ended up mapping for Tormentor's Stronghold project. Shows how you can go places if you have enough motivation. :)

W1D3A55 wrote: If nobody will [...] attempt to play it

I didn't see a download link in the thread just now.

W1D3A55 wrote: If nobody will like the wad or even attempt to play it, what's the point of the release?

If nobody at all likes it, then chances are that there's something wrong with it. After everyone explains to you why they don't like it, you might even agree with them, making your next iteration even better. That's what you were after in the first place, right?

Getting publicity is tricky, but frequent updates and public testing on Best Ever are great ideas already mentioned.

And then as Decay said, if you get no attention then who cares? You already know pretty much what would make your project good -- you must have some opinion if you're comparing it to others'. Just keep making things how you want them to be.

On another note I would suggest you map for some small projects. I've been mapping for a while but am still quite a novice at it I haven't got the quality/time to create hugely impressive wads in there own right but I've made a map for the light-maze project and it has helped improved my mapping. also I'm making a ctf and deathmatch map for different projects in this forum, you should give it a try.
Also everyone has different opinions of whats a good map, for instance, I really like fragport when a lot of people would say it's dull and repetitive. So just stick with it, I always try and play every wad released on these forums just I can't always (nor seem able) to give criticism.

Igor wrote: THESE FORMUS MAKE IGOR FEEL GREAT
SMARTER
MORE AGGRESSIVE...

Remmirath wrote: IGOR FEELS LIKE HE COULD...LIKE HE COULD...

TAKE ON THE WORLD!!!

Would you please put up alink for your wads? I would play them and let you know what I think.They can't be half as bad as some wads we've all played here and there. Either way,the best of luck to you!