Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

Old stuff gets archived here.
User avatar
Empyre
Zandrone
Posts: 1282
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:41 am
Location: Garland, TX, USA

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#21

Post by Empyre » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:53 pm

Oh, I didn't understand that you are going to archive stuff. I'm sorry about being so slow to get that message.

I just looked at the forums home page, and almost every forum has posts from this month or last month. They are being used.
"For the world is hollow, and I have touched the sky."

User avatar
nax
Lead Administrator
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:06 am

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#22

Post by nax » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:38 am

Empyre wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:53 pm
Oh, I didn't understand that you are going to archive stuff. I'm sorry about being so slow to get that message.

I just looked at the forums home page, and almost every forum has posts from this month or last month. They are being used.
What Decay and I are saying though is that once a month just isn't enough. When most of the actual chat or discussion happens on discord I have a problem showcasing just how long it takes for someone to respond to something on these forums. Now there are some exceptions to this: Straight Zandronum Discussion, Projects, Support. These forums are what we need to concentrate on, and our Discord is what we should be encouraging people to use for chat and low level discussion.

User avatar
Cartel
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:55 pm
Location: South Carolina
Contact:

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#23

Post by Cartel » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:56 am

Samurai wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:45 pm
For what it's worth regarding my adminship of NJ, I've said various times to various people that I'm happy to give up my access to someone who is active and willing to deal with admin related stuff. I agree that my activity fluctuates a lot, and I'm not reliable enough to administrate NJ servers.
I nominate Shane. He's active, doesn't cause any problems, well liked by 99% of the community, just an overall good fit for admin access.

User avatar
Samurai
Frequent Poster Miles card holder
Posts: 905
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:17 am
Location: England
Clan: Lost Faction
Clan Tag: [LF]

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#24

Post by Samurai » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:29 am

Cartel wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:56 am
Samurai wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:45 pm
For what it's worth regarding my adminship of NJ, I've said various times to various people that I'm happy to give up my access to someone who is active and willing to deal with admin related stuff. I agree that my activity fluctuates a lot, and I'm not reliable enough to administrate NJ servers.
I nominate Shane. He's active, doesn't cause any problems, well liked by 99% of the community, just an overall good fit for admin access.
If Shane and Alex are OK with it then sure.

User avatar
Empyre
Zandrone
Posts: 1282
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:41 am
Location: Garland, TX, USA

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#25

Post by Empyre » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:39 pm

I also see a lot of activity in the Clans forum, announcements of somebody joining or leaving, stuff like that. Here are some ideas: How about combining Clans with Tournaments & Matches into one forum, and then combining the rest of Community Events into one forum? How about combining General Chat and Fun & Games into one forum? These, along with the three you mentioned would be a total of six forums, greatly reduced from how it is now, yet it would still be possible to post about any topic we can now.

I am trying to work with you, not against you.
"For the world is hollow, and I have touched the sky."

Mobius
Banned
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:43 am
Location: The center of the A3's controversial and machiavellian conspiracy
Clan: Cube
Clan Tag: Aᵌ
Contact:
Banned: Permanently

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#26

Post by Mobius » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:42 pm

Empyre wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:39 pm
I also see a lot of activity in the Clans forum, announcements of somebody joining or leaving, stuff like that. Here are some ideas: How about combining Clans with Tournaments & Matches into one forum, and then combining the rest of Community Events into one forum? How about combining General Chat and Fun & Games into one forum? These, along with the three you mentioned would be a total of six forums, greatly reduced from how it is now, yet it would still be possible to post about any topic we can now.

I am trying to work with you, not against you.
That was once a thing in skulltag if I recall. Make tournaments a subsection since that's more dead than clans or make two subsections one for clans and the other for tournaments.

Let's just do it then while we're at it

Combined News Area with HeadQuarters. All 3 are about upcoming updates for Zandronum anyway there's no reason for 2 forum sections.

Combine Help with Modding. There's no reason for Help to be a section and then have Community between that and modding that's just bad forum design. Combine them and put community underneath

Combine Community with Community Events and discussion.. and then rearrange how this forum looks because it's ugly and stupid. Here's how I'd arrange it


Section Name - News Area (no subsection)
News & Announcement
Staff Discussion
Development

Section Name - Help and Modding (no subsection)
General Help & Support
Editting Help & Support
Project, Maps & Mods
Resources

Community Event Discussion
Sub Section -
- Tournaments and Matches
- Friday Night Fragest
- Saturday Night Survival
- Clans
Delete GDA nothing happens here.

Everything Else should be renamed to General Discussion

General Discussions (No Subsection)
Zandronum Talk
General Discussion
Fun & Games


I have now taken your 990983496806787568934 sections and forums and combined them to a nice and clean 4 section and well organized forum page. You're welcome.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

satori
New User
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:41 am

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#27

Post by satori » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:59 pm

It's a bump, but I guess that's the problem, right?
Empyre wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:22 pm
I am not opposed to people using Discord, but I don't like the idea of shutting down the forums.
This.
nax wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:51 pm
Forums excel in topics that can or need to survive a long period of time as opposed to chatter which is best suited to realtime.
Yes.
nax wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:51 pm
Discord on the other hand gives people the ability to not just communicate in realtime like IRC, but also has the permanence of a forum. It basically combines the best part of IRC with the best part of a Forum though it moves a bit too quickly for showcasing development work or for troubleshooting reasons where it's preferable to leave an easily found thread.
No.

If "forums are dying", revive them. A lot of bigger and smaller forums died because of apathy on the part of the people running them. Replacing forums with Reddit was a giant mistake and I don't understand how the internet allowed that to happen. Replacing forums (and Reddit) with Discord doesn't really work, because Discord is a chat room and you need permanence and history. Replacing permanence and history with Google Docs, which way too many people is a good idea for some reason, doesn't really work even if you have an absolute god of UX running the thing. Really, replacing IRC with Discord doesn't work either, but it seems no one really cares.

Here's the thing: Discord and Google Docs and whatever fucking suck. The only reason people use them is because other people use them. This is how anything proliferates, quality has nothing to do with any part of the process. Discord and Google Docs have huge disadvantages over what they're trying to replace, but no one seems to care because "community" is more important. Worse, these "communities" are being built and maintained by pre-teens (I'd like to mean that metaphorically but I probably mean that literally) that have no idea what they're doing and that will happily allow drama to collapse a community real fucking fast.

When you die on Discord or Google Docs, you die in real life. Permanence is a lie. These platforms are not "public", so if something gets deleted from there, only Discord and Google will ever see it. These are hilariously locked-down platforms that can only be used effectively by brain-dead people. This is a bad idea, and there really needs to be more pushback against it, especially from the open source crowd.

and yes having 20 subforums is ridiculous and is a large problem with these damned 30-channel discord servers as well

it is phenomenal just how little people care about logging but also how little people care about how godawful discord search is, discord-types are fucking incapable of basic thought

Konda
Forum Regular
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:22 pm

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#28

Post by Konda » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:36 pm

Discord is great, the only problem is that your stuff belongs to Discord. That's the only disadvantage it has when compared to IRC. If you're not using the platform to coordinate terrorist attacks, you don't have to worry about disappearing from it (and also real life). Unless Discord goes bankrupt and shuts the whole thing down. Then we can switch back to IRC or find something better again.

Anyway, weren't the forums supposed to be restructured? What happened with that?

User avatar
nax
Lead Administrator
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:06 am

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#29

Post by nax » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:37 am

it's happening over time. i've already slimmed down some dead forums and got combined categories slightly, and as time goes on i will be removing the lowest activity forums or combining them with others until we're pretty slim. also the transition to discord has been fairly slow so we're still getting that moving forward

Mobius
Banned
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:43 am
Location: The center of the A3's controversial and machiavellian conspiracy
Clan: Cube
Clan Tag: Aᵌ
Contact:
Banned: Permanently

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#30

Post by Mobius » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:36 pm

satori wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:59 pm

If "forums are dying", revive them. A lot of bigger and smaller forums died because of apathy on the part of the people running them. Replacing forums with Reddit was a giant mistake and I don't understand how the internet allowed that to happen. Replacing forums (and Reddit) with Discord doesn't really work, because Discord is a chat room and you need permanence and history. Replacing permanence and history with Google Docs, which way too many people is a good idea for some reason, doesn't really work even if you have an absolute god of UX running the thing. Really, replacing IRC with Discord doesn't work either, but it seems no one really cares.

Here's the thing: Discord and Google Docs and whatever fucking suck. The only reason people use them is because other people use them. This is how anything proliferates, quality has nothing to do with any part of the process. Discord and Google Docs have huge disadvantages over what they're trying to replace, but no one seems to care because "community" is more important. Worse, these "communities" are being built and maintained by pre-teens (I'd like to mean that metaphorically but I probably mean that literally) that have no idea what they're doing and that will happily allow drama to collapse a community real fucking fast.

When you die on Discord or Google Docs, you die in real life. Permanence is a lie. These platforms are not "public", so if something gets deleted from there, only Discord and Google will ever see it. These are hilariously locked-down platforms that can only be used effectively by brain-dead people. This is a bad idea, and there really needs to be more pushback against it, especially from the open source crowd.

and yes having 20 subforums is ridiculous and is a large problem with these damned 30-channel discord servers as well

it is phenomenal just how little people care about logging but also how little people care about how godawful discord search is, discord-types are fucking incapable of basic thought
I think this is the most insightful post in the thread yet and I want to give you a reddit style upvote, but I want to interject a little.

Discord should never truly replace irc. It should be an option like everything else, and the reason is because Zandronum doesn't own Discord or any of its services and that includes google docs. This is why I write my important documentations in PDFs because when a "free" webservice goes so does everything you have contribute to it. So Zandronum should NOT follow the same route most people do and instead should keep communication open for both partial proprietary and 3rd party. Discord can die tomorrow and the last thing we need is for us to become dependent on it.

A3 Discord is fantastic.. we still use Teamspeak on my server though.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

User avatar
StrikerMan780
Forum Regular
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 9:16 pm
Clan: Shadow Mavericks
Clan Tag: [SM]

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#31

Post by StrikerMan780 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:32 am

I left the multiplayer scene years ago for the most part, because there was a severe lack of sportsmanship, and an overabundance of toxicity to the point where it wasn't worth it for me to stay full-time. I do still hop on once in a blue moon to play with friends, or get a few rounds of classic DM in, but that's about it. Every time I get randoms in the servers, I kind of remember why I left; The toxic, rude, and hateful players that can't just have fun, and have to drag the game down for everyone else (by constantly being antagonistic, trolling/stalling matches, among other things). Any criticism of the community often results in a bit of a clusterfuck as well, and it's not healthy.

The other reason I don't play nearly as much anymore, is the stagnant development. I'm a modder before anything else (it's what I do, what I enjoy), and with things taking so long with Zan, having been constantly hitting roadblocks and engine limitations when working on my mods, I just decided I'm going to wait until GZDoom gets viable client/server netcode.

Doesn't help that it always seems to be the same shit played over and over. Every time my buddies ask, "anything going on in Zan? Is it just X, Y, and Z maps/mods/gametypes again?", my response is pretty much always "Yep, just X, Y, and Z again. No surprise there.". Though, we try to remedy that by jumping into unoccupied servers running less frequently played maps/mods/gametypes, hoping others will join in. Works sometimes, but not as often as we'd hope.

Mobius
Banned
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:43 am
Location: The center of the A3's controversial and machiavellian conspiracy
Clan: Cube
Clan Tag: Aᵌ
Contact:
Banned: Permanently

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#32

Post by Mobius » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:07 pm

I like you Strikerman and we've been very cordial in the past but I have a problem with your point of view.
StrikerMan780 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:32 am
I do still hop on once in a blue moon to play with friends, or get a few rounds of classic DM in, but that's about it.
Strikeman780 wrote:Doesn't help that it always seems to be the same shit played over and over. Every time my buddies ask, "anything going on in Zan? Is it just X, Y, and Z maps/mods/gametypes again?", my response is pretty much always "Yep, just X, Y, and Z again. No surprise there.". Though, we try to remedy that by jumping into unoccupied servers running less frequently played maps/mods/gametypes, hoping others will join in. Works sometimes, but not as often as we'd hope.
How can you complain about the same things being played if all you ever do is play the same thing that's older than the things you complain about? I remedied all my problems going to the Megaman side of doom and got an interesting prospective from it looking back. You're not going to get anything interesting if you don't try anything out.

Also we've discussed the "toxicity" of the community 100000000000 times in many different threads, targeting many different people (some of whom are in this thread), have had community meetings only a few showed up to, all the way to a head admin being bounced/quitting, and even the take down of a server cluster because of this. I honestly think "toxicity" is more of a spook than ever before and we hardly get drama, and drama laden threads that address it aren't productive so much as they are blame games with a recent example of community awareness (I wasted no time in being proactive about the removal of undesirable trash). You don't like the shit someone says? F8 or ignore. Stalling a game? Go to the bathroom (if you play enough d2m1 this wouldn't even be an issue). Making a topic about how people chase you out makes you look like a weenie and a weakling which I believe is absolutely the most toxic: playing the victim to score sympathy. I don't like bullshit anymore than you do and we've been over this in the past, but goddamn do something about it. That's what I've done. Fight back or leave. Play something else in doom and meet new people alongside your friends, but don't expect anyone to clean up for you.

Having spent time in one of the most pussiest and passive-aggressive lot of doom (megaman) I can tell you that being a victim is a lot worst than being the aggressor. Just get shit done bro and do you.

Edit* Just think of the shitting you see as white noise dude. You only get white noise in idle states like your TV having static and not in a proper channel or some bad reception, except nowadays we have Cable so there's really no excuse.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

User avatar
StrikerMan780
Forum Regular
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 9:16 pm
Clan: Shadow Mavericks
Clan Tag: [SM]

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#33

Post by StrikerMan780 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:51 pm

Hey man, I've tried doing the Megaman thing, but I couldn't really get into it. And while yes, I generally play classic DM, I tend to avoid playing map packs that are already done to death (though, save for UDM3/UDMX, I tend to be a sucker for those). Not to mention that classic DM is so rarely played in general these days that it actually ends up being something different, considering most servers seem to be Brutal Doom or MM8BDM related. BTW, you literally quoted where I said that we jump into less frequently played maps/mods/gametypes... (By "Yep, just X, Y, and Z again. No surprise there." it's in reference to the populated servers on the master, not what we're doing.) TL;DR: I'm not just playing the same thing over and over, it's just difficult to get others to do the same.

Also, I'm not trying to "play the victim", but there's only so much a person can take after nearly a decade (I started playing ST as far back as 2003) of constant crap. Fighting back against the people giving you shit was basically a bannable offense here (on the forums specifically) for as long as I can remember, and it's not like I haven't tried regardless. Some shit got bad enough to the point where it leaked beyond the community, and into other websites and even my personal life, so it was time to distance myself. Sure, there were some situations that were my own damn fault, but there were also a lot that weren't, while still taking the blame for it, and that was the most infuriating and a huge driving factor in me just leaving for long stretches of time (I mean, if you're fucked if you do, fucked if you don't, would you want to stay?). Hopefully the environment has changed a lot for the better, especially with the new staff (all seem down to earth the last I spoke to them). I've been mostly absent until recently so I haven't been able to get a feel for how the community is now (in broader terms) aside from it seemingly being a lot smaller now.

Don't take my rambling about how things were in the past as me holding a grudge, and more an explanation as to why I had been gone for so long. The past is the past, after all.

Anyhow, as far as in-game- sure, I can ignore shit-talkers and dickheads with F8, and I often do, but it sucks to have to even do that because that also means blocking communication with other, good players. Would help if Zan allowed blocking specific people. As far as stalling and trolling matches is concerned, I guess I more refer to things like refusing to play properly, blocking pathways in team games, shooting allies into hazards, trying to votekick people at random, etc. Hopefully some of the more egregious stuff, like impersonation has died off like the cancer it was.

All that said, I will try to get on more often, and bring in some new blood. I do run my own community with 60 members and growing, and most have interest in old games, so I'll try my best to get them playing.

User avatar
Marcaek
Forum Staff
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:05 am

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#34

Post by Marcaek » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:32 am

Would help if Zan allowed blocking specific people
Zandronum has had an ingame ignore feature under multiplayer options for many years now: possibly even as far back as skulltag.

Mobius
Banned
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:43 am
Location: The center of the A3's controversial and machiavellian conspiracy
Clan: Cube
Clan Tag: Aᵌ
Contact:
Banned: Permanently

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#35

Post by Mobius » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:28 am

StrikerMan780 wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:51 pm
Hey man, I've tried doing the Megaman thing, but I couldn't really get into it. And while yes, I generally play classic DM, I tend to avoid playing map packs that are already done to death (though, save for UDM3/UDMX, I tend to be a sucker for those). Not to mention that classic DM is so rarely played in general these days that it actually ends up being something different, considering most servers seem to be Brutal Doom or MM8BDM related. BTW, you literally quoted where I said that we jump into less frequently played maps/mods/gametypes... (By "Yep, just X, Y, and Z again. No surprise there." it's in reference to the populated servers on the master, not what we're doing.) TL;DR: I'm not just playing the same thing over and over, it's just difficult to get others to do the same.
Tried Progduel?
Strikerman wrote:Also, I'm not trying to "play the victim", but there's only so much a person can take after nearly a decade (I started playing ST as far back as 2003) of constant crap. Fighting back against the people giving you shit was basically a bannable offense here (on the forums specifically) for as long as I can remember, and it's not like I haven't tried regardless. Some shit got bad enough to the point where it leaked beyond the community, and into other websites and even my personal life, so it was time to distance myself.
I got that like 3 years in and then some so I know. I didn't need a decade for that experience and got banned on like the first 2 years here. That didn't really stop me from fighting back though anyway I could; however, I know how it feels to be exhausted from drama. I just think it shouldn't be permanent.
Strikerman wrote:Sure, there were some situations that were my own damn fault, but there were also a lot that weren't, while still taking the blame for it, and that was the most infuriating and a huge driving factor in me just leaving for long stretches of time (I mean, if you're fucked if you do, fucked if you don't, would you want to stay?).
This right here I can't empathize. That's the exact mentality your foes want you to do, and that's fade away in defeat that the situation cannot change. Sure.. I mean when I did it I was banned from 2/3rds of Skulltag/Zandronum (IRC and Forums) but that never deterred me any. I confronted anyone and everyone on anything I felt was unjust for myself and others around me even if it meant getting banned again, because the looming threat of the knife to me wasn't a damn charity. It was a measure of control and I am one of the only people who cannot be controlled by anyone. That's exactly when you fight back (or continuing doing what you doing. Success is good revenge) and you continue. I mean nowadays the staff is 9000 percent more fair than ever when Metal and Infurnus was in charge so I doubt you need to be as fierce but still. I always find when an enemy attempts to have you pinned is when you are probably in a better position to fight. I mean what do you have to lose right? Damn if you do and damn if you don't.
Strikerman wrote:Hopefully the environment has changed a lot for the better, especially with the new staff (all seem down to earth the last I spoke to them). I've been mostly absent until recently so I haven't been able to get a feel for how the community is now (in broader terms) aside from it seemingly being a lot smaller now.
infinitely better. They actually listen for a change. People cry about favoritism because staff isn't kissing their ring (like previous status quo) but I believe they are fine now. I don't like specific people (and they know that) but NOTHING like the staff of old. I'd pick a Marcaek any day over Metal or Zapper.
Strikerman wrote:Don't take my rambling about how things were in the past as me holding a grudge, and more an explanation as to why I had been gone for so long. The past is the past, after all.
Don't worry Striker. I may not been here as long, but the crazy shit I been through is 20 years condensed into 5 with the remaining 3 years being slower than what we are use to seeing. The new staff don't take shit and all the dipshits who rode on the protection of specific staff are gone.
Strikerman wrote:Anyhow, as far as in-game- sure, I can ignore shit-talkers and dickheads with F8, and I often do, but it sucks to have to even do that because that also means blocking communication with other, good players. Would help if Zan allowed blocking specific people. As far as stalling and trolling matches is concerned, I guess I more refer to things like refusing to play properly, blocking pathways in team games, shooting allies into hazards, trying to votekick people at random, etc. Hopefully some of the more egregious stuff, like impersonation has died off like the cancer it was.
Image

Been here since Skulltag. The impersonation I handled exclusively with staff. Everything else is nature of the mod.
dewsome: i can do this all day
dewsome: do you think you're somehow special? i spent years arguing with nostar, jenova, mobius
<+Thomas13> Mobius u r inferior, go outside and get beaten up
Alfonzo ~ "I wonder who will hear him trash talk when the dirt closes over him?"

User avatar
StrikerMan780
Forum Regular
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 9:16 pm
Clan: Shadow Mavericks
Clan Tag: [SM]

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#36

Post by StrikerMan780 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:46 pm

Thanks, I was unaware of that feature for all this time. Sometimes I can be blind as a bat.

User avatar
JellyTrigger
New User
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:05 am
Location: USA

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#37

Post by JellyTrigger » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:03 pm

Just thought I'd pop my head in since I'm probably not like anyone here who recently posted, so perhaps my opinion would be valuable as well.

1)
I understand what you mean about forums in general. They're an outdated source of information and file sharing these days as players often share and communicate through discord groups. I believe Zandronum should join the crowd and make a discord, but still keep the forums open. Personally I've stopped using the Zandronum forums because nothing new is added. I only stop by every once in a while to what my favorite author has created (if at all).
2)
I don't know about all that community fractured stuff. When I came to play Doom, that's all I was here for. Sure I noticed that many people wanted to only play the big titles that you mentioned "GVH/AOW/WDI" etc., but I always played what I wanted. I couldn't figure out how to make servers so for a long time my brothers and I only played together and we played LOTS and LOTS of wads. It was only much later that I found The Sentinel's Playground and could actually play the wads I wanted to play with other people (even though they barely every joined so it was just my brothers and friends lol). Whether what you mentioned is true or not idk, but I wanted to say not everyone was knowing of the drama. They just came to play doom like me.
3)
I know a lot of them played the same stuff, but I always wanted to try new cool wads, especially Total Conversions that people dedicated a lot of time to to make it feel like a totally fresh game. The few times I did play with players they weren't toxic or anything, but I did notice they wanted things THEIR way often. Like when I was trying to beat a hard level they kept telling me to make it easier or change DM flags to make it fun for them. If I didn't want to, they got upset and quit. A good number of them didn't like playing challenging game modes that I played, but that was okay. I just continued playing what I wanted and didn't rely on them to have fun.
4)
I'm sorry but you will never find me creating anything, except maybe possibly (like a 5% chance) a player skin. I didn't join this community and start playing Zandronum in order to create anything. I personally commend people who do don't get me wrong, but I'm not a content creator. I don't find enjoyment in pain painstakingly learning how to create maps and perfect them. I don't think it's fair to make everyone who's here to play have to create as well in order to boost the community. I first came to this port because I felt it was a better MULTIPLAYER port than Zdaemon. I enjoy playing multiplayer in any game, I absolutely love it. Playing with other players is what brought me here and I think that should be plenty. Plenty of communities thrive even if everyone isn't creating something. So I feel like I have to stand up for the people who just play. I'm not forcing anyone to create more content for me to enjoy, even the regular classic Iwads are plenty. I think I've rambled too much about this.
5)
I don't know, I never felt like their NEEDED to be updates but perhaps content creators needed updates in order to fix problems with their maps and projects. I always felt like Zandronum ran fine even though when it did update some of the new stuff was freaking sweet! Like co-op survival (YEESSSSSSSSS)!

All and all this was my opinion, but I don't create anything or stay heavily into the community. I don't mind chatting with everyone or checking out new wads. My interaction with Zandronum was mostly solitary compared to much of you all so again I thought my opinion might be useful.

Thanks.

User avatar
nax
Lead Administrator
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:06 am

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#38

Post by nax » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:44 am

Without quoting everyone else who gave the discord sentiment, we are of course taking this slowly as radically changing bits of a very old community is never the right call. I understand a great deal of reluctance to leaning on Discord a bit more than Forums, but my experience is that people largely prefer it. That doesn't mean I implicitly agree with how Discord handles everything they do, or that I don't see the control Discord has over information to be problematic at some level. All this means is that I believe the best move will be eventually to lean on the strengths of our Forums and the strengths of chat. IRC is no longer a very viable communications platform in terms of activity. That said, we will *always* have an IRC. Whatever happens with Discord, we will always have our Forums and our IRC.

But I also want to create the flexibility needed to harness the activity that was happening elsewhere. Part of this flexibility will be for the time being using Discord and getting people together on it as it's definitely a more convenient resource for harnessing that activity than IRC is. I don't know if Discord will ever just truly snub everyone or if it'll last, but we can decide what's best for our community when Discord stops being useful to us. And many here have already proven that it is - Decay's Discord has been very useful in grabbing cross community players and helping them get started on zandronum or getting them involved with events. Marine's discord has much discussion regarding WDI and GvH. MM8BDM discord has activity regarding the game's development cycle. LF's discord has alot of DM priv match calls. A3's discord has routine Megaman priv matches and occasionally links tournaments. TSPG has a pulse community discord that many people interact with daily. There's nothing wrong with using a tool that is useful for the time being and discarding it whenever it stops being useful, and we as a community will end up determining that. At no point will we give up any of our privately owned resources in favor of things like Discord.

Gul Dukat
Banned
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:58 pm
Banned: Permanently

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#39

Post by Gul Dukat » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:04 pm

I find it funny that some mod disregarded my post of links of my rants from 2012/2013 about the state of the competitive scene, the state of the moderation and the toxicity or maybe lack of playful drama, which pretty much was nearly inline with Decay's viewpoints about "The Players" of the community in his OP. Now full disclosure: The moderation is a lot more better than it was when Metal was lead admin, like lol holy shit, those years were a fucking nightmare for the community. She literally was the worst admin I've seen in any community, aside from Kil "I'm gonna banned you for life because you hurt my feelings" Gore for not handling a little fucking banter and being the butt end of a joke.

Originally I wasn't even aware of this thread and I didn't wanted to post in this thread but some of decay points did caught my eye....

I just wanna say that, the reason why I posted in this thread is because, I've kinda been saying this for a while now, this isn't new to me, I literally been watching this for the past five years. I knew this day will happen and I did try to make light of it. That competitive scene would one day implode and slowly die off because a bunch of 20 and 30-something players wanna gatekeep the scene and shit on anyone new or not good enough to fuck off back to Fortnite, PUBG or some meme game of the half decade because they couldn't handle getting their asses beaten by the same nine people over and over or force to bench for hours on end because they're "not good enough" and their only chance to play was be a capt, only have the fucking priv session died because "Oh, shitplayer32 is now capt. Time to timeout or start saying GGs" or get pissy on TS because that very same player is mediocre and believe me, I was in those TS sessions in BE/Water's server while everyone was priving. I thought I'd never hear a bunch of 20/30 male adults being all bunch of dramatic primadonna with sour grapes because they couldn't fucking handle losing one game because they had a mediocre player. I'll probably give Mobius and A3 some prop, they probably don't give a shit or at the very least act like toxic spastics when they lose because had pick that one shitty player on their team in priv. Then again, I never lurk on their discord/ts when they priv but I know this is a pretty fucking common thing to hear when [R] group plays priv on their TS.

In fact, to me it's even more funnier when these very same top ranking ctf players that was gatekeepping the scene back and holding down or blocking new or unskilled players from playing priv in 2013 decided to fuck off from the port to play Overwatch, PUBG or Fortnite because "waaa, no one plays priv any more," "I'm tired of playing the same 10 players" "I hate playing with unskilled players." Now I do think Jenova point that some people have moved on does have merit but honestly, if that was the case, we should've had people who started playing CTF in 2014 start being the top players now. Yes, people will because disinterested and leave the port for good. But still, the priv''s elitism and"boys club" mentality
back in late 00s to early 10s put the death of the scene on overdrive.

Anyways, I'll leave you guys too it to this thread and the merry-go-round arguments about the competitive scene. I'll just continue to lurk and watch this community degrade to nothingness like everything that was popluar in the early-mid 2000s. Can't wait another 10 years time when it's only Mobius clan and a few randos still playing/working on this port.

(I won't be making anymore posts in this thread, so I don't really care if you spit this post too. I just wanna point out the irony that I saw this coming 5 years ago.)

Mod edit: I dont know why I hadnt banned you yet since you outed yourself as Mr Cheater previously and I sure as hell dont know why you keep thinking anyone here has any desire to read anything you post, but I'm fixing that right now.

User avatar
Fused
Contributor
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:47 am
Location: Netherlands
Clan: TK
Contact:

Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#40

Post by Fused » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:34 am

I would voice my opinion as as a moderator and a player, but since I haven't done that more recent it has cost me my moderator role, apparently. So I don't really care doing it as a player either.

Locked