Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#1

Post by nax » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:59 pm

it's interesting that you bring this up because I have a lot of things i'm working on currently that addresses much of this. as we all know the various discords are where activity is at, and I think supporting this shift is the right way to go. in terms of Zandronum Staff, we've thought of many ways we can better "market" ourselves as a place people might return to from modern games and such.

I'm not going to outline everything just yet because there's much to do and I want to see what exactly will be realistic and what won't. But there are things that will naturally bring more people to us and excite people to contribute and stay. For one, we have already talked about the issues of forum usage vs discord and i believe we have a pretty good idea on what to do regarding this.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#2

Post by Lollipop » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:01 pm

The only thing I really have to add would be why I only play when the planets and their moons align these days, aside from real life issues that is.

When I browse the server list I only see names of people I have no idea who are and my experience with joining and saying "hi" is that I will only be met with silence, which accounts for borderline anything I try to say to communicate.
That leaves me with the feeling of playing with intelligent AIs so I decide I might as well play something on my own or whatever else.

What do we do, though? An information campaign? Some sort of public meeting of sorts to discuss the matter?
If the problem is with the players, then we need to make the players change. Heck on the point with the grudges we need to make those people confront those grudges and reflect on their past or else they will hold on to them for all eternity.

I would love for this community to perk up again, it would be awesome.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#3

Post by Ænima » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:07 pm

Everyone is getting older and there is almost zero “new blood”.

The current generation of “PC gamers” did not grow up with the original Doom games in their childhood like we did. They grew up on Call of Duty, Battlefield 4, TF2, Overwatch, and Fortnite.

Why would someone expend their precious time and patience learning the nuances of a 25-year-old game and trying to embed themselves within a TINY, elitist, clique-driven community if they have NO emotional connection to the original Doom experience as most of us old-timers do?

Online Doomers are a dying breed. Newcomers will be far and few between and almost none of them will stick around very long. Everyone just needs to accept it right now.
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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#4

Post by Shane » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:32 am

I agree for the most part but I want to chime in a bit on the competitive side of things as it's not as bad as you might paint it to be, as of this moment that is.

For the most part priv has lost its exclusivity and this is a good and or bad thing depending on your point of view on things. The problem with it is the absence of a strict administration with Rustking preoccupied with megaman or various A3 things. Marcaek sticks to deathmatch primarily, Swiftshot isn't present for most of it, Frank (while a good addition) doesn't carry a lot of weight to his presence and is overall just a nice guy and Watakid isn't around/deals only in absolutes and can't make a lot of decisions based on instinct or gut. Now I'm not trying to ask more from them or bashing them on the state of things now because they are human beings and things change. For the most part this is all well and good actually as the two problem makers you pointed out, Skullrush and Killstrike, are actually absent for a majority of priv games. This doesn't go without fault however as we still have morons every so often who just want to ruin things for everyone else namely people like Edd. I am happy to report that these individuals do receive bans and punishment to their awful behavior, but there is more so an issue with the individuals who refuse to attend priv due to their view of the matter. I never let bad players or poor minded players dictate whether I go play priv, if someone wants to act up then I'll gladly put them in their place because they're not just dampening my fun, but everyone else as well.

When I recruited frostyflakes into LF he had high hopes and huge aspirations to play and get better at doom, but now that he finally has had the time to sit down and speak to people like edd or mobius or anyone with similar views he's now turned face and thinks the same. I'm speaking of course about the idea that "doom competition isn't the same without a b c or d individuals", and although I can agree with this to some degree I just can't completely believe in it as truth. However these new bloods don't know that so they come in like frosty has and listen to these guys and now they are afraid to even think about doom competition. It's not the main problem, but a big factor is leaving a bad impression at the front door and turning people away before they even plant their feet on the welcome mat. If people want old players to come back then leave the past behind and let these young doomers test their mettle then maybe when those old players come back and see that things are just as they left it and now we have the "old days" back again. We still have plenty of good players playing these days, it's just no one cares to take notice of them because of the bubble of time they can't see out from.

Lastly I do believe a "hive" mindset is also a big negative factor. As I stated before, players can be very impressionable, so they will latch onto an idea of someone else if it helps verify themselves or if they wish to fit in. Watermelon is a huge offender of this, he shows up, plays a few games and every single game he has written at least a paragraph about "dropped shots" this or "zan 3.1's fault" that and it gets really annoying real fast. Now not everyone is going to have the exact same experience when playing zan 3.1 or connecting to Funcrusher DE/NJ, but when players want to feel like they aren't getting worse and it's the port's fault they will jump on it. Problem is this is very infectious and it works in a broad sense especially since it's sung by most renegade members, players that a lot of players still trying to make a name for themselves look up to. It certainly doesn't help if someone makes a comment about something dropping and Watermelon helpfully likes to butt in to give them their satisfaction to say "oh it's the port and nothing else at all".

Far as mapping projects go there hasn't really been much of anything for a long while far as open projects go. I can't speak for doomworld, but most of the zandronum based projects have all been in house pretty much with MXU or Chaoscore. And not much drama that would force people to drop their project. I mean there was that minor Chaoscore vs. MXU thing (and by chaoscore vs mxu I really mean caboose shittalk vs A3 shittalk which was and still is stupid to and from both parties) and other than that nothing has been on the radar for years. Frank is working his xctf project (a map compilation of ctf maps similar to the vain of idl compilations) and a bunch of single party projects, but I'm unsure if a new spicy project is gonna send sparks flying in the community. There are plenty of innovative and exciting mods out there to enhance and change gameplay entirely that haven't been played today like the big 3 today.

I just really hate how people have stopped being people and just want to sign onto an idea to fit in or have full belief in something so their ego isn't harmed in any way.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#5

Post by Jenova » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:20 pm

1) Forums are outdated
Switching to Discord makes sense because it's the primary mode of communication for gamers nowadays. People don't use forum software as much anymore and smaller communities have basically collapsed into things like subreddits among other things. Discord has the potential to bring in lots of new players and it'd make sense to have an official Discord server and retire IRC.
2) This community is fractured beyond recognition
Zandronum has been the premier port because of it's strong modding and multiplayer capabilities which brought in plenty of new players. Before mods were a thing, there were roughly ~10 active players at any given time playing Skulltag. The boundaries between subcommunities exist because of people's preference to play what they enjoy. There's no reason to play GVH if you enjoy playing CTF and there's no reason to play complex doom if you're a mm8bdm hotel RP player. You can't do anything to change this because it's not up to you to dictate what people enjoy playing and force them into a specific gamemode.

Clan reputation is solely a function of a clan's members and the actions taken by members within that clan. In an ideal world, everyone would put aside their hatred for specific members of a clan (and by association, the clan itself and other members within that clan) but relationships don't work this way and people harbour discontent towards others. People are hated for a variety of reasons, not all of them rational, but it's ultimately the choice of the community members themselves to decide whether or not it's worth their time to play with an individual.

New players were always encouraged to play Private CTF, but with the current scarce availability of public CTF servers average skill of these players has declined. It used to be the case where someone would have a good understanding of game mechanics, map layout, routes, etc. all learned through public CTF before they'd enter private CTF. Now, private CTF is the only CTF that's played. While I don't necessarily agree with barring individuals from playing private CTF when they're very obviously not skilled enough, I can empathize with those who want to play a game with strong equally-skilled players and not be dragged down by others who can't compete.
3) The players
The problem isn't that people are unwilling to try new things or that they're stuck in the past -- it's that the ratio of passive to active, community-engaged members has increased. The historical trend has been that Zandronum has seen less and less engagement in various mediums because new players simply don't care. Most of the people playing nowadays aren't regulars who you'd hop on IRC and talk to, but random people who decide to try out this cool new legacy doom port so that they can play X thing that they heard about. Some of these players stick around, most don't.
4) No new mapping projects
This is a result of the aforementioned increase of passive player ratio. Doom is such an old game that it really doesn't attract many new players. The people who were passionate about creating maps and getting people to play on them have for the most part grown up, have jobs, married, and are doing other things with their lives.

The argument about "standard" maps is pretty ridiculous if you consider that the most successful competitive league in Doom history has had a standard map pool for most of its history. I don't play this game much anymore but when I pop in priv from time to time I don't even know half of the maps that I'm playing. It's not that people don't want to pay new maps, it's just that people don't play the game anymore. Changing maps isn't going to help your cause when there are no players to play on said maps. Take a peek at waybackmachine and look at some old IDL posts, and you'll see that 98% of those players aren't playing anymore.
5) Lack of updates
Agreed, anyone complaining about lack of updates should contribute themselves.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#6

Post by Empyre » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:22 pm

I am not opposed to people using Discord, but I don't like the idea of shutting down the forums.
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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#7

Post by jwaffe » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:32 pm

Ænima wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:07 pm
The current generation of “PC gamers” did not grow up with the original Doom games in their childhood like we did. They grew up on Call of Duty, Battlefield 4, TF2, Overwatch, and Fortnite.

Why would someone expend their precious time and patience learning the nuances of a 25-year-old game and trying to embed themselves within a TINY, elitist, clique-driven community if they have NO emotional connection to the original Doom experience as most of us old-timers do?
While I think generally this is true, I don't think it's quite this bleak myself. I'd guess that there's a decent sized group of people who grew up in the 90s, who might like Zand, but just never really thought to look for or play multiplayer. Almost everyone knows what Doom is, a lot of people probably loved it, but not many people know zDoom exists or that anything happened since '94. The tricky question is, how to reach these folks? I was almost one of these guys but I just kind of accidentally stumbled on Skulltag through the CQFF, and I only joined the CQFF back in '08 to reply to a meme post (seriously).

Recently I've introduced Zand to a some coworkers who were around my age, they never played Doom, they might have heard about it / seen it in magazines once or twice but they never bought it. These guys were Fortnite and PubG players, or not really even gamers at all. They seemed to like it quite a bit; I started them out on Doom 2 stock maps (because they're forgiving on people that are still learning the controls), then we played some invasion (which so far everyone seems to like, regardless of skill level, "holy shit look at all the monsters!") and some coop mods. It's not the same kind of tight survival experience like when I played with Arg or Bob but we had a pretty good time. I kinda hope eventually I can get them to the point where we can at least play survival with lives but time will tell I guess.

Not surprisingly these guys have a hard time adjusting to competitive game modes like DM, I think I got them to understand SR40 and chain tapping, I'm not sure if the Doom nuances (especially old school stuff like wallrunning and stuff like that) will be as appealing to these guys in the long run as the PvP in modern games. I think Ænima's take on this is probably spot on for PvP, even though I wish it wasn't the case. I have a hard enough time explaining the BFG, let alone 1990s traditions like the BFG sound glitch, plasma bump, etc, and I don't know what I can do to help with that. Though FWIW when I was testing my new server configs I had an Exec/Brit server up for all of two minutes while a buddy and I were testing the flags and 2-3 people joined; I'd guess that cruising around DM servers with another player is probably still a half decent way to stir up DM activity. It's not an army of people looking to master the game and start clans, but it's something.
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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#8

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:30 am

The next big mod in the image of 8Bdm, AOW, GvH, Samara, ZH, or WDI probably isn't going to come around for a long while, if at all. Currently the more populous servers are running some form of Complex Doom or Brutal Doom and everyone is just going to have wait until the next hotness dethrones them. I've seen concepts throughout the years posted on the forums, but no one really pays attention to them or the author either ruins his own work or simply leaves the mod unfinished. Making content for things like DM, Duel or CTF is nearly a waste of time. As mentioned above, DM is the type of mode where you have to actively start games with someone or some people. Long gone are the days where you could hop online and see a Dwango5 server maxed out with other people refreshing constantly to join (yeah it was zdaemon, but the point stands). Deathmatch is fun but it gets old quick and part of the reason people played DM so much back then is because it was a fresh experience to play online Doom DM vs other humans along with the fact that ZD tracked experience points. Over time, it transformed from something new to something standard.

Duel was always hogged by competitive players and if the majority didn't like a map, they didn't play it. Someone making a new map would either have to strike gold, get others to shill for them, or pander to a specific game style. ST/Zandronum never had a strong pub CTF scene so it's not a surprise to see that Pub CTF is dead.

As for the engine, there are a lot of things you can do now that you couldn't do 2+ years ago. I always see modders say, 'if zan had this I could. . .'. Yet, as more things get added to Zandro in terms of Decorate and ACS, the never ending chain of feature and backport requests never stops. Maybe if Zan ever merges with Gzdoom, people will run out of excuses and start releasing content. Or maybe they'll just move their requests to the GZoom forums instead. :biggrin:

Shane wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:32 am
The problem with it is the absence of a strict administration with Rustking preoccupied with megaman or various A3 things.
Just for the record, the last proactive thing I did was create a strike system for NJ and guidelines for punishments. When I followed the new rules that I outlined in a topic (https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8501)
and started banning people, everyone (especially the banned people) went to some random ass server Jenova threw up so they could still play with everyone. More specifically, the server provided grounds for Jenova and players to mock the NJ admin team. We didn't care though since our old problem became Jen's problem. Oh wait, where is that server now? Whoops dead......

So basically, that's what you all get. The majority wanted a shitty environment and it took it's toll. Priv was beyond a joke and it can never compare to ZD priv 2006-2012. I know there were players that genuinely hated what priv became, but hey, the loud majority ruined it and a lot of the players who weren't happy did little to discourage their clanmates or buddies from being retarded memers. It also didn't help that people would run to Alex in the past whenever they got punished, but whatever.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#9

Post by Jenova » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:00 am

Ru5tK1ng wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:30 am
Just for the record, the last proactive thing I did was create a strike system for NJ and guidelines for punishments. When I followed the new rules that I outlined in a topic (https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8501)
and started banning people, everyone (especially the banned people) went to some random ass server Jenova threw up so they could still play with everyone. More specifically, the server provided grounds for Jenova and players to mock the NJ admin team. We didn't care though since our old problem became Jen's problem. Oh wait, where is that server now? Whoops dead......
Rebellion servers aren't a new thing and have happened very often in the past, it's just at a point now where losing a few players does have a big impact. Remember the whole thing with Caboose and Water/A3? I'm not saying anyone's specifically at fault, I'm just pointing out that the drop in activity isn't based on grudges people have with others. In regards to competitive, you can cherry pick all of these little microscopic incidents of drama and assert that x, y, z is detrimental to the competitive scene but really it's just that most people have moved on with their lives and don't play the game anymore. Obviously not everyone is going to get along but historically that has had little bearing on overall activity. The truth is that the competitive scene was active 10-15 years ago, and now it's not. People have trash talked and mocked others for years, but now it's a problem because the playerbase is so small that removing 3-4 players from priv does have a significant impact on overall activity.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#10

Post by Mobius » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:46 am

Shane wrote:When I recruited frostyflakes into LF he had high hopes and huge aspirations to play and get better at doom, but now that he finally has had the time to sit down and speak to people like edd or mobius or anyone with similar views he's now turned face and thinks the same. I'm speaking of course about the idea that "doom competition isn't the same without a b c or d individuals", and although I can agree with this to some degree I just can't completely believe in it as truth.
I never had conversations like that with Frostyflakes.
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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#11

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:09 am

Jenova wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:00 am
Ru5tK1ng wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:30 am
Just for the record, the last proactive thing I did was create a strike system for NJ and guidelines for punishments. When I followed the new rules that I outlined in a topic (https://zandronum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8501)
and started banning people, everyone (especially the banned people) went to some random ass server Jenova threw up so they could still play with everyone. More specifically, the server provided grounds for Jenova and players to mock the NJ admin team. We didn't care though since our old problem became Jen's problem. Oh wait, where is that server now? Whoops dead......
Rebellion servers aren't a new thing and have happened very often in the past, it's just at a point now where losing a few players does have a big impact. Remember the whole thing with Caboose and Water/A3? I'm not saying anyone's specifically at fault, I'm just pointing out that the drop in activity isn't based on grudges people have with others. In regards to competitive, you can cherry pick all of these little microscopic incidents of drama and assert that x, y, z is detrimental to the competitive scene but really it's just that most people have moved on with their lives and don't play the game anymore. Obviously not everyone is going to get along but historically that has had little bearing on overall activity. The truth is that the competitive scene was active 10-15 years ago, and now it's not. People have trash talked and mocked others for years, but now it's a problem because the playerbase is so small that removing 3-4 players from priv does have a significant impact on overall activity.
It was a rebellion for all the wrong reasons which is ironic about it. Instead of fostering priv to be free of players who are detrimental to the well being of the server, people chose to have a priv server with numbers rather than quality. Yes, it's good to have more numbers in an online game but after a certain point it doesn't matter if the quality of the matches is sub-par. Regardless if you want to admit it or not, players throwing games, quitting mid game, refusing to play, and related infractions ARE harmful to priv. These instances are not isolated and have happened several times in the past 6+ years. People leaving the game and moving on does have a large impact on activity, but let's not try to fool anyone into thinking that a terrible priv environment doesn't bring down activity.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#12

Post by nax » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:18 am

Empyre wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:22 pm
I am not opposed to people using Discord, but I don't like the idea of shutting down the forums.
Shutting down the forums is not currently on the table. However, vastly shrinking the forums in favor of a focused and basic first point of contact is what I'm going to be considering moving forward. I've been considering reorganizing the forum around 3 key areas: News, Support, and Projects / Content. On the same page as the forums will be the main Zandronum discord link, as well as a list of unofficial related discords that will primarily replace the current wide swath of forums we have currently.

The idea is that the forums would be the first and primary landing point for community members - a baseline for people to dip their toes into the community. It is therefore important that this baseline is focused and inviting. The Official Zandronum Discord would be the secondary landing point which would offer a more lax environment for chatting and discussion, and then the cluster / zandronum-related discords would be the final landing points which are privately maintained and have their own level of discussions. I believe this to be the best way to allow people to integrate into the community and the best way to still involve people who may not fully integrate but still have things to offer to the community in general.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#13

Post by Empyre » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:36 pm

I haven't used Discord, but as I understand it, it is some sort of a cross between IRC and Teamspeak. I don't have a working mic, so I would be that guy who is typing while everybody else is talking ... awkward. Anyway, everything said there is fleeting, so there is no record of what was said, and you can only have a conversation with somebody who happens to be there at the same time. This is where forums come in handy. Why do you think this discussion is happening here in the forums?

I like the forums they way they are now. They are not broken and don't need to be fixed. Shifting the focus to Discord doesn't necessitate getting rid of most of the forums. Something like Discord is much better than forums for live chats, but the forums are better for discussions with people who aren't on at the same time. You can search the forums for answers to questions and for announcements of projects that you are looking for. Please don't throw all that content away.

I am not arguing against Discord. I propose having Discord and the forums (as-is) running in parallel, each fulfilling an vital role in the community.
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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#14

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:07 pm

Actually, at least in doom, no one really uses their mics or has one in 2018. Discord Voice Chat is limited and inferior to TeamSpeak and even Ventrillo. The majority of servers I'm in stick with text chat which works the same as irc since Discord logs every message.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#15

Post by Samurai » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:45 pm

For what it's worth regarding my adminship of NJ, I've said various times to various people that I'm happy to give up my access to someone who is active and willing to deal with admin related stuff. I agree that my activity fluctuates a lot, and I'm not reliable enough to administrate NJ servers.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#16

Post by Razgriz » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:46 am

Decay wrote:It will never grow beyond what it is now, because that takes effort and work, and nobody wants to do that.
The primordial reason why majority of projects fail, you can add "commitment" to the list. This also explains why Discord/IRC >Forums, because it takes a lot more commitment to open the forums and type out a long thought out paragraph instead of just reading what the current topic is on IRC/Discord and typing up a one liner here and there. This topic proves that there's only a handful of people willing to get involved in some way, unfortunately.
Shane wrote: Watermelon is a huge offender of this, he shows up, plays a few games and every single game he has written at least a paragraph about "dropped shots" this or "zan 3.1's fault" that and it gets really annoying real fast.
The irony of this is actually how it's his own code is what caused some of these current problems. It's actually the reason why I haven't ran another TDM tournament, I remember all of the funky shots happening throughout the tournament on other players' sides and my own and I can say I only enjoyed playing roughly 60% of it as a result. I don't have any interest in running another one and putting other players and myself back into that spot where shots just completely screw up. The next version of Zandro should fix this thanks to Leonard's detective work, but Water can only blame himself for what he's experiencing at the moment.

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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#17

Post by nax » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:51 pm

Empyre wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:36 pm
I haven't used Discord, but as I understand it, it is some sort of a cross between IRC and Teamspeak. I don't have a working mic, so I would be that guy who is typing while everybody else is talking ... awkward. Anyway, everything said there is fleeting, so there is no record of what was said, and you can only have a conversation with somebody who happens to be there at the same time. This is where forums come in handy. Why do you think this discussion is happening here in the forums?

I like the forums they way they are now. They are not broken and don't need to be fixed. Shifting the focus to Discord doesn't necessitate getting rid of most of the forums. Something like Discord is much better than forums for live chats, but the forums are better for discussions with people who aren't on at the same time. You can search the forums for answers to questions and for announcements of projects that you are looking for. Please don't throw all that content away.

I am not arguing against Discord. I propose having Discord and the forums (as-is) running in parallel, each fulfilling an vital role in the community.
First and foremost not that many people use Discord for voice chat versus text chat. Before you criticize prioritizing chat on discord I'd like you to download discord and join some of the doom communities so you'll be better prepared to have a discussion on that topic.

The forums are not currently fulfilling a vital role in the community. If anything, the forums are currently terrible first impressions for anyone. Why would new players use them when we don't even use them? Most of the functionality for all the forums we have is being utilized by discord instead. Every clan has a Discord, every cluster has a Discord, and Zandronum has a discord. If people actually used the forums you'd have a point here, but we don't. IRC is just as antiquated in terms of usage rates. In no case would I ever consider deleting either the forums or the IRC, but we need to be realistic about what people are actually talking on.

Forums excel in topics that can or need to survive a long period of time as opposed to chatter which is best suited to realtime. This is important because Zandronum's website needs to be an all inclusive landing page for people to get into the community. This would mean our website and forums are best equipped to showcase the best assets of zandronum as well as provide a low noise area for project development, support, and port discussion. Discord on the other hand gives people the ability to not just communicate in realtime like IRC, but also has the permanence of a forum. It basically combines the best part of IRC with the best part of a Forum though it moves a bit too quickly for showcasing development work or for troubleshooting reasons where it's preferable to leave an easily found thread.

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Empyre
Zandrone
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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#18

Post by Empyre » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:42 pm

At no point have I criticized prioritizing Discord. You were talking about shrinking the forums, which means deleting parts of it. That is what I am begging you not to do. Maybe you can move some of the forums into subforums. Reorganize, but please don't delete anything.

I have memories of trying IRC about a decade ago and finding it to be a waste of my time, but you have convinced me to give Discord a try.
"For the world is hollow, and I have touched the sky."

Lollipop
Zandrone
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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#19

Post by Lollipop » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:02 pm

You can also use discord from your browser without having to download it. That way you can try it out before you decide if you want to download it or just continue to use it from your browser, which is what I do.

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nax
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Re: Decay's POV: Zan forums dead and online not much better

#20

Post by nax » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:04 pm

Empyre wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:42 pm
At no point have I criticized prioritizing Discord. You were talking about shrinking the forums, which means deleting parts of it. That is what I am begging you not to do. Maybe you can move some of the forums into subforums. Reorganize, but please don't delete anything.

I'm really starting to get frustrated with how many times I've said "deletion is off the table". No forums in the foreseeable future will be deleted - however the ones clearly no one uses will be archived.

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