Re: Major Best Ever moderation change
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:55 am
You seem to know a lot about clans. You seem to know a lot of clanless people suitable for the freed positions too.
Teach us sensei
Teach us sensei
Leading the way in newschool multiplayer Doom online
https://zandronum.com/forum/
I'm not sure if serious or...scroton wrote:I believe I have a solution for the issues the Zandronum community faces:
1) Create separate but equal copies of all sub forums for general clan members--"Clan Projects", "Clan Editing", "Clan General" and so forth.
2) Make it so that all forum members that are currently in clans or have been in clans at any point in the past are only able to post in these clan sub forums. Make exceptions for bug reports and other such things which assist development of Zandronum. For the sake of organizing events, allow non-clan forum members to post in the clan sub forums.
3) Remove any and all forum Admins and Moderators which are in a clan or have been in a clan at any point in the past from their positions and put them in charge of moderating the clan sub forums. Allow them autonomy in appointing new clan moderators from clan forum members.
4) G-line all IRC users that are in a clan or have been in a clan at any point in the past from the main Zandronum IRC channels, such as #zandronum. Leave other IRC channels as-is.
I believe these changes will improve user experience for the entire zandronum community as it will mean that non clan members will be able to post about zandronum and zandronum projects, and clan members will be free to post about clans and clan feuds without interruption from moderation.
Thank you for your time.
Good job spitting on what also contributes in making Zandro a non-coop-only port.Konda wrote:TL;DR Zandronum competition was cancer
Shouldn't have let the drama affect BE. Also, what was up with that "No fun allowed" at the top of the forums? Was that also influenced by drama?
scroton wrote:I believe I have a solution for the issues the Zandronum community faces:
1) Create separate but equal copies of all sub forums for general clan members--"Clan Projects", "Clan Editing", "Clan General" and so forth.
2) Make it so that all forum members that are currently in clans or have been in clans at any point in the past are only able to post in these clan sub forums. Make exceptions for bug reports and other such things which assist development of Zandronum. For the sake of organizing events, allow non-clan forum members to post in the clan sub forums.
3) Remove any and all forum Admins and Moderators which are in a clan or have been in a clan at any point in the past from their positions and put them in charge of moderating the clan sub forums. Allow them autonomy in appointing new clan moderators from clan forum members.
4) G-line all IRC users that are in a clan or have been in a clan at any point in the past from the main Zandronum IRC channels, such as #zandronum. Leave other IRC channels as-is.
I believe these changes will improve user experience for the entire zandronum community as it will mean that non clan members will be able to post about zandronum and zandronum projects, and clan members will be free to post about clans and clan feuds without interruption from moderation.
Thank you for your time.
Kara Kurt wrote:I'm not sure if serious or...
HTG wrote:Edit: fell for it gg
My post was completely serious.Ru5tK1ng wrote:Lol. Oh Karakurt, that post is obvious troll bait. But good on you to not fall for it.
I know exceedingly little about clans, which is precisely as much as I care to.ZZYZX wrote:You seem to know a lot about clans. You seem to know a lot of clanless people suitable for the freed positions too.
Teach us sensei
I may be mistaken, but isn't what makes Zandronum a non-coop-only port the existence of multiple game modes supported by the port itself?Kara Kurt wrote:Good job spitting on what also contributes in making Zandro a non-coop-only port.
I agree with you that there are indeed many clans that do create Clan HQ wads and various Brutal Doom mutators, but I do not know if those can be, technically speaking, counted as mods or content.Ru5tK1ng wrote:Besides, the issue isn't entirely about clans or competition being at fault. There are plenty of clans who don't get involved in shit and there are plenty of coop and mod based clans with no hand in competition.
I'll be extremely kind to you -- This is not the kind of thread for you.scroton wrote: Stuff...blabla
That's the point. Actually Zan has so many game modes that you can't count them on the fingers of two hands, which is quite positive although nowadays some of them only gets played during public events (FNF), but the thing is most of them are competition-oriented. However, to get mentioned game modes played, you might need a stable player base, that means these players contribute in making Zandronum a good multipurpose port. Needless to say that not everyone who plays CTF and is part of a clan is forcefully involved in dramas because when you (you as in everyone) want to keep a game alive/playable and sane, you know you must avoid getting into dramas. That being said I don't think blaming the competitive side of Zan is correct.scroton wrote:I may be mistaken, but isn't what makes Zandronum a non-coop-only port the existence of multiple game modes supported by the port itself?Kara Kurt wrote:Good job spitting on what also contributes in making Zandro a non-coop-only port.
I will just point out that most of the moderation team (including the developers) are/were in a clan.scroton wrote: This does bring up a good point, however, as it exposes a flaw in my proposal; there do exist a small number of individuals (for instance, Ænima) who, despite showing exceedingly poor judgement in joining a clan, also produce worthwhile content separate from the clan they are in.
I sincerely appreciate your kindness, but I am just fine in this thread.Ivan wrote: I'll be extremely kind to you -- This is not the kind of thread for you.
I was aware of this regarding the moderation team. My proposal includes placing these individuals into the clan moderation team, where they will be in charge of moderating the clan subforums.IdeIdoom wrote: I will just point out that most of the moderation team (including the developers) are/were in a clan.
While there are certainly some small fraction of forum members that join clans for reasons other than feuding in the forums, you must admit such people are an extreme statistical anomaly.IdeIdoom wrote: And exceedingly poor judgement? Do you even know what clans are even? They aren't just for competitive play, or to make drama. Hell, you're better off joining a clan to make friends.
I hope he didn't off himself but I think we can all agree that nothing would be lost.ZZYZX wrote:It's still to be explained why is BE currently down despite Jenova's statement that it'll continue to run normally, with Jenova himself vanishing for 24 hours already, which is a really rare thing (he's usually never or almost never offline).
Also scroton's suggestion is the reverse of what Jenova did: punish all clans and all players in them for what one person does, as opposed to punishing clanless players for what staff member did. Both are equally stupid.
I'm sorry... what? So if I want to make a team to play with my friends, or join another team for the same reason, it's a poor life choice? I'm sorry again, but you probably were dealing with the wrong people.scroton wrote:Regarding the extremely poor judgement remark--I'm not saying that clan members can't be good people, or that they are all terrible drama-mongering individuals that hardly ever actually play Doom, but when I find out someone is on a clan I do usually lose a great deal of respect for the person as it is usually indicative of general poor life choices.
#NotAllClansZZYZX wrote:I'm sorry... what? So if I want to make a team to play with my friends, or join another team for the same reason, it's a poor life choice? I'm sorry, but you probably were dealing with the wrong people.scroton wrote:Regarding the extremely poor judgement remark--I'm not saying that clan members can't be good people, or that they are all terrible drama-mongering individuals that hardly ever actually play Doom, but when I find out someone is on a clan I do usually lose a great deal of respect for the person as it is usually indicative of general poor life choices.
You have a really unhealthy obsession with clans. Basically your theory seems to dive down to 'all people who are in a clan, or who have ever been in a clan should be banned from Zandrounum'.scroton wrote:I sincerely appreciate your kindness, but I am just fine in this thread.Ivan wrote: I'll be extremely kind to you -- This is not the kind of thread for you.
I was aware of this regarding the moderation team. My proposal includes placing these individuals into the clan moderation team, where they will be in charge of moderating the clan subforums.IdeIdoom wrote: I will just point out that most of the moderation team (including the developers) are/were in a clan.
A quick check of the development user group, if I'm reading it correctly, reveals that almost none of the developers are in a clan. Neither Torr Samaho or Blzut3 appear to be in clans.
While there are certainly some small fraction of forum members that join clans for reasons other than feuding in the forums, you must admit such people are an extreme statistical anomaly.IdeIdoom wrote: And exceedingly poor judgement? Do you even know what clans are even? They aren't just for competitive play, or to make drama. Hell, you're better off joining a clan to make friends.
Regarding the extremely poor judgement remark--I'm not saying that clan members can't be good people, or that they are all terrible drama-mongering individuals that hardly ever actually play Doom, but when I find out someone is on a clan I do usually lose a great deal of respect for the person as it is usually indicative of general poor life choices.
I don't think he did anything of the sort, nor should he ever do anything of the sort - he has probably taken a much needed break given the circumstances so I'm sure he'll be fine. Also, "nothing would be lost" is not, in my view, something at all appropriate to say unless you're called Leonard. He's still a person, and even though he may have pulled some incredibly dumb and petty shit for years, that doesn't mean anybody should be glad if anything wrong happened to him. Just saying. I absolutely distance myself from statements such as these and I think you should think twice before posting something like that. Unless I misunderstood the point you were trying to make in which case I apologize.GramGreen wrote:I hope he didn't off himself but I think we can all agree that nothing would be lost.
My proposal does not seek to punish clan members; it's a measured, reasonable set of guidelines to promote a positive user experience for all forum members. While most clan members will best fit into this new paradigm by being grouped with other clan members in their own special clan subforum, the pass mentioned in my proposal revision allows for the infrequent clan member that can constructively contribute to the larger community to post in the larger community (with moderator approval for all posts, of course.)ZZYZX wrote:Also scroton's suggestion is the reverse of what Jenova did: punish all clans and all players in them for what one person does, as opposed to punishing clanless players for what staff member did. Both are equally stupid.
If any of those desires lead to you joining a clan, then yes.ZZYZX wrote:I'm sorry... what? So if I want to make a team to play with my friends, or join another team for the same reason, it's a poor life choice?
I have never played All Out War. While I dabble a bit in modding, most of the time when I play online I play with more "vanilla-ish" mods.ZZYZX wrote:Wait, actually, do you play AOW? I know a lot of people from competitive clans will go troll to AOW simply because they don't even care about it :P
I have seldom paid much attention to clans. My posts in this thread are the first posts I have made which concern clans in any capacity.Samurai wrote:You have a really unhealthy obsession with clans.
My proposal does not include banning such individuals from the Zandronum forums, merely restricting their posting to the proposed clan subforums. Depending upon how the proposed Clan Moderation Team decides to moderate the subforums, they may find that moderation is less lenient and thus they would in fact be less likely to be banned, rather than as you suggest.Samurai wrote:Basically your theory seems to dive down to 'all people who are in a clan, or who have ever been in a clan should be banned from Zandrounum'.
I agree with you in theory, but real-world observations lead even the casual observer to a conclusion of "yes." I am uncertain of the cause for the discrepancy.Samurai wrote:Because I decided to wear a little tag infront of my alias, does that mean I'm going to suddenly act like a dick to people, where as if without having a clan tag I would be nice to everyone.