Major Best Ever moderation change

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Major Best Ever moderation change

#1

Post by Jenova » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:27 am

Hello everyone!

Because I have been extremely busy with school and other activities, I have decided to impose some changes on our current rules. Here are the new rules:
  • 1. BE will not moderate servers for its users. This will be solely up to the server owners themselves.
    2. Because of various DDoS threats, BE will not report the IP addresses of suspected cheaters to the staff. We will however relay the IP addresses if the staff manages to show sufficient proof that the user is cheating. This is to protect the players.
These two rules mean:
  • 1. The banlist has been completely wiped. Banned wads, however, will stay.
    2. If you think a player is cheating, please report it to the server owner (join #bestever and type .owner <port>) or report it to #staff. We will not ban any cheaters, as this is up to the master server administration.
    3. If you are being harassed, you can voice your discontent to the server owner (once again, join #bestever and type .owner <port>). They are under NO obligation to ban the offender, however. You can however, host a server with the same settings if you think you would do a better job at server moderation.
    4. You can be banned for ANY REASON. You can be banned for being from Peru, from Brazil or from Canada. Obviously I would never do this and I don't endorse it, but it is possible.
We understand that this causes problems for a large portion of players. A lot of people appreciated what the admins did, but I have little free time, and the free time that I do have I do not want to waste arguing with others or viewing 6 hour demos for cheaters, looking at logs, banning 600 proxies, etc. This is why we have delegated responsibility to the server owners.

We will be trialing this for the next few weeks and will potentially revert the changes if this causes a huge decrease in server quality. We're hoping that the "free market" will decide which servers are high quality and worth going to.

As always, since this is a forum, please feel free to voice any objections you may have. Obviously I'm not omnipresent and I do make mistakes sometimes. This could be one of those times. Feel free to discuss the rule changes, why you think they are good, why you think they are bad, etc.

Thanks for reading! Hopefully this change doesn't have a direct impact on your enjoyment playing Zandronum!

Edit: I forgot to mention, Mifu runs a really good set of servers. If you like the old BE, TSPG is essentially the exact same thing. You can join their irc channel at #tspg-painkiller and visit their website at http://painkiller.allfearthesentinel.net/
Last edited by Jenova on Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#2

Post by theundeadsoldierx9 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:38 am

Nice Idea I hope this works very well and people doesn't use rcon just for admin abuse.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#3

Post by Jenova » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:43 am

I hope so too! From what I could tell, the majority of the players that hosted Best Ever servers did it with the right mindset and genuinely cared about the experience of the players. Hopefully this means that we won't see much abuse. If there is abuse, feel free to start your own alternative server.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#4

Post by Combinebobnt » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:44 am

awesome now i can use rcon for admin abuse

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#5

Post by mifu » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:52 am

Ho boy.

I dont want to sound like a dick or anything but I dont know if this is a wise move. Anyone want to place a bet how long before this turns into a cheaters haven?

Thats my exact concern right there. Not i could do much and I see your willing to change it back if it does not work out but lets be honest. We have seen this before, not in zandronum though where a server admin did not give a fuck about their servers and chose to not ban anyone or whatever. Of course back then, their server got delisted from the master but I think this would be 10x worse at the caliber of the host seeing as people run servers of your resources.

If you wanted more free time, could take a break and either get someone else to run while your on vacation or schedule an outage whatever is easier. This is going to cause chaos, you know full well it will. But hey thats not really none of my business since I dont own the server so I wish you luck there. I hope it works out well.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#6

Post by Mobius » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:57 am

mifu wrote:Ho boy.

I dont want to sound like a dick or anything but I dont know if this is a wise move. Anyone want to place a bet how long before this turns into a cheaters haven?

Thats my exact concern right there. Not i could do much and I see your willing to change it back if it does not work out but lets be honest. We have seen this before, not in zandronum though where a server admin did not give a fuck about their servers and chose to not ban anyone or whatever. Of course back then, their server got delisted from the master but I think this would be 10x worse at the caliber of the host seeing as people run servers of your resources.

If you wanted more free time, could take a break and either get someone else to run while your on vacation or schedule an outage whatever is easier. This is going to cause chaos, you know full well it will. But hey thats not really none of my business since I dont own the server so I wish you luck there. I hope it works out well.
Not exactly. The server host can easily ban suspected cheaters and relinquish the IPs to the staff since it is up to host's discretion to do this. It just means Jenova doesn't have to do it on behest, unless of course, he is 100 percent clear crystal the person is cheating. It isn't as bad as it sounds. It's a two-way street.
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#7

Post by Jenova » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:58 am

Thank you Mifu, we hope that this doesn't turn into a cheaters haven. If someone is suspected of cheating and you can show that they are in fact cheating, we will definitely give the staff their IP to be banned. However, it should be noted that the burden of proof rests on the staff to prove they are cheating, not the players to prove they are innocent.

We have mostly genuinely good people hosting servers. A few bad apples should hopefully have no large impact on the quality of play that players experience.

As I stated in my original post, players are welcome to host on TSPG instead, as you guys are essentially using the old BE methodology.

BE started as a project to aid developers host servers. Instead, it turned into a major server host and replacement for the majority of mods on Zandronum. This wasn't my original vision but I rolled with it. I did not expect to have to worry about cheaters, griefers, etc, as I assumed the server hosts themselves would do this. This is what it should have been like from the start.

If players have a negative experience on one server, they are obviously free to switch servers. We respect that the master server allows any server as long as that server isn't using some type of exploit to let cheaters play. I hate cheaters as much as the rest of the playerbase. This is why we have an exception for cheaters as I stated above -- proof without a reasonable doubt of cheating and we will definitely hand out their IP address. Hopefully this doesn't cause too many problems!
Last edited by Jenova on Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#8

Post by ZZYZX » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:44 am

Protecting the players from the master staff sounds like something I'd read on 1st April.
Especially given that IPs are still perfectly visible to server owners who are way more random people and thus are more likely to abuse this knowledge.

wat.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#9

Post by Jenova » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:35 am

ZZYZX wrote:Protecting the players from the master staff sounds like something I'd read on 1st April.
Especially given that IPs are still perfectly visible to server owners who are way more random people and thus are more likely to abuse this knowledge.

wat.
Very reasonable response. Any server hoster on BE is free to report anyone they want -- this goes without saying. I'm simply stating that I personally will not hand over the IP addresses of players in your servers to the staff unless there is proof of them cheating.

You do raise a good point about the server hosters disclosing IP adresses. Give me a bit of time and I will create a website for players to find ideal VPNs close to their geographic location. Hopefully I'll be able to grab an extensive VPN list so that players can have a variety and choose the highest quality one near them. I'm going back home to visit my parents tomorrow so I'll be free for the next few days to work on this.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#10

Post by ZZYZX » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:51 am

Isn't it better to instead build a modified server that doesn't show IPs in the log and to RCON, but instead writes them to separate log that's only available to a cluster admin?
Although this would require trickery to enable bans... well, both ways have downsides. VPN doesn't sound like a perfect solution either.

You could hash an IP and only use this hash with bans, which sounds relatively okay, except mask bans, which are bad to do either way.
The problem with this approach is that the user won't be able to take an already known address and ban it at BE, and they also can't take an address from BE and ban it elsewhere.
As for the first part the server could just check for both classic IP and a hash, and the second is ultimately the price for being able to host a server without a valid internet connection at home.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#11

Post by Jenova » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:04 am

ZZYZX wrote:Isn't it better to instead build a modified server that doesn't show IPs in the log and to RCON, but instead writes them to separate log that's only available to a cluster admin?
Although this would require trickery to enable bans... well, both ways have downsides. VPN doesn't sound like a perfect solution either.
VPN definitely isn't a perfect solution. Since I don't want to handle banning myself, I need to delegate it to the users. Your method requires me to intervene and ban people, which I said I will not do.

Perhaps a command like banuser which also bans their IP (and an optional octet range) would be a good idea, but then we still need to modify the source to hide IPs from rcon clients, which is itself a bit difficult considering the extent to which they can view IP addresses (think of the commands playerinfo, viewbanlist, etc).

VPN list is good for a few reasons:

If done right, connecting to a different VPN should only take a few seconds.
Players not worried about their IP leaking can simply not use a VPN.
VPN will also protect them from alternative methods of obtaining IP addresses (think IRC, websites, getwad, etc).

Of course it goes without saying that releasing a website like this would make incredibly easy for cheaters to ban evade. However, these players are likely to ban evade regardless so it shouldn't be that bad.

I plan on making this VPN list fragmented -- certain IP adresses will only be available to certain clients, to prevent someone from just DDoSing all of the IPs in the list, but we will see what comes of this.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#12

Post by ZZYZX » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:14 am

Jenova wrote:If done right, connecting to a different VPN should only take a few seconds.
Players not worried about their IP leaking can simply not use a VPN.
VPN will also protect them from alternative methods of obtaining IP addresses (think IRC, websites, getwad, etc).
From my experience most IRC networks have a way to register which hides your IP and replaces it with pseudohostname of the network (Zan, ZD, qnet, esper, etc...)
Do you expect someone who can't learn to use /nickserv register to know how to use a VPN? (do you expect capodecima to host his own IRC network?)
To me it sounds like you're just reinventing the wheel like Tor, except on a way smaller scale and with less security (but still random static list of outgoing nodes with encryption).

Also doing VPN instead of IP hiding ultimately prevents banning by IP forever. It's not matter of evasion, it's that the admin will just ban the VPN address instead of offender's. 1st April again?
Unless Zandronum switches to ZDaemon-like forced auth which will ultimately solve everything, including the necessity to display players' IPs anywhere.
Jenova wrote:Your method requires me to intervene and ban people, which I said I will not do.
Why? If you log user's IP hash instead of the actual IP, and make the server recognize such hash in banlist, users will handle it themselves.
You will only participate in this when there's an actual need to retrieve the original IP, for example when someone is cheating and needs to be masterbanned.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#13

Post by Combinebobnt » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:36 pm

Hey here is the 2015 banlist if u guys want it: http://pastebin.com/8mJpxAfi

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#14

Post by Jenova » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:09 pm

If you still want the VPN banlist on your servers, you can look at TSPG's banlist and copypaste the bans over onto your server.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#15

Post by FascistCat » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:21 pm

This explains why personalities like Hobo Filystyn came back to do nothing else than annoy everybody. Like usual.

Since you are busy because of IRL stuff then this change is for the best.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#16

Post by Tenchu » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:18 pm

EDIT: I retract my statement about BE specifically. My argument more points to "should the Zandronum Staff have access to every players' IP address?", and that is a discussion for another thread.
Last edited by Tenchu on Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#17

Post by Jenova » Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:34 pm

It makes perfect sense to withhold IPs of suspected cheaters. If they can show a player is cheating, then I will without a doubt hand over the IP.

The reason for this is partly because I don't entirely trust the staff members of this port. I am not going to go into details why, but I don't want to put players that play on BE at risk because of suspected cheating. Suspect is a slippery slope, I'd rather have definite proof than put "suspects" at risk.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#18

Post by Ænima » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:55 pm

Do the staff members even have the time to follow up on all "suspicious" cases?

Like, what would they do? Follow that player into a server and sit there F12'ing him for a good chunk of their free time? Or just ban them outright based on >x number of people making accusations against them?

Also, the "cheater's haven" argument doesn't really seem to hold anymore. With all of the reliable server clusters to choose from nowadays (as opposed to the 2 or maybe 3 big ones that we had in the 96f days), I can't really see a CyberHunter situation occurring ever again. Players will eventually get fed up and play on a different cluster, and then the host has no choice but to do something about it if they want to retain players.

So yeah basically free market.
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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#19

Post by Jenova » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:49 pm

TLDR: Read the bottom

I know this is double posting but I just want to explain why I decided to do what I did. I also sent a similar message to the staff and they discussed it internally.

I stepped down partly as a fuck you to the administrators of this port. It's pretty clear to anyone who reads this topic that that's pretty much what it is. I just want to be clear that I still want to obey all of the rules, and I'm not dropping BE because there are many people besides myself who benefit from it. I get genuine enjoyment when people use BE and thank me for doing this because they know I don't have to do it. I assume others like Konar, Alex, etc. also enjoy when people play their servers because their work and effort is also validated.

TSPG exists -- and I strongly recommend you stick to TSPG if you want an actively moderated server cluster because I'm not dealing with this shit anymore. Yes, I am literally using my position in this community to voice my dissatisfaction. Is this petty and shitty? Absolutely, without a doubt. I have no doubt that there are specific players in this community who will use the rule changes simply to piss off other players, troll, grief, etc. I also strongly hope that these people are in the minority, because once again I would rather not impact the people who play on BE and have done nothing wrong.

Before I continue and explain why I'm doing what I'm doing, I just want to remind everyone that BE is open source. Yes, you can clone the repo at https://github.com/IvanTopolcic/BestBot and host your own version. I've only seen two other people (besides Mifu) do this and they used it internally. I made it open source to encourage contributions, patches, and others to host their servers. A few players (read the other Capo ddos topic if you are unsure who I am talking about) have argued that I've only started BE to get a hold of the community and control it. This is the most laughable thing I've heard. I was asked numerous times to be an administrator of this port, a position I declined because I knew that I didn't have the time commitment to deal with Zandronum issues as well as with BE and NJ issues.

---- skip if you don't want a long ass explanation of my doom history ----

For people reading this who don't know my history, I believe it's important as it will give context to the next few paragraphs that I'm about to write. I'm also going to tell you because it will without a doubt be brought up by certain individuals. I started playing Zdaemon back in 2003-2004. During this time, I did a lot of absolutely despicable shit, including but not limited to: harassing other users constantly, namefaking a dead player (Thunder, rest in peace), and cheating around 2006, which I was banned for. I don't want to make excuses for myself but I believe my age and immaturity played a large role in deciding what I did. Not a lot of players knew about me back then, I was just some random Zdaemon player.

After I was banned for 2006-ish in cheating, I switched over to Skulltag. During this time, I found a few exploits that I reported to Carnevil to have them patched up and fixed (walk turbo204 sr50 if anyone remembers was a large one). I'd also just like to remind you that I was still a complete asshole at this point, having been banned from irc, forums, etc. I became friends with Spak members (Redshirt, Radnsmash, etc) who are basically what I think of as the "old school" A3. These players (including myself) caused a lot of shit and started a lot of drama in the community. We made stupid memes like Metalbread (which Ralphis used later I believe) to harass her constantly, and talked trash about her physique (you know what I'm talking about, no details for the unaware). We made fun of all of the admins and were banned many times from many servers. I was literally one of the most banned players in this port at one time. After this, I became friends with A3 players and hung around their teamspeak. I ddos'd Legion at one point in a Zdaemon private CTF game because he did something to piss me off (I don't remember exactly what but I wouldn't just randomly ddos him, it was unjustified 100% and I'm not trying to justify it but I believe context is important). Then I won a few masterbowls (CTF tournaments similar to how Football leagues work), started Best Ever, went back to school, and generally have distanced myself from most of the community with the exception of the few shitfests that happen once every few months. I also became admin of Funcrusher some time during this (I don't know exactly when to be honest) but it may have been even sooner than this.

Honestly I don't remember the exact order most of those events transpired but I believe the above is important set up for this big wall of text that I'm going to write next.

---- continue from here ----

Important note: when I refer to A3, I generally refer to Mobius because he is essentially the root cause of the problem. There are many great players in "A3" (the community, not necessarily the clan members) such as Bob, Kuchi, Dranzer, Goliath, etc (there are probably more -- the people who I dislike 100% know I dislike them) who I haven't seem cause problems and are open to thoughts and opinions from others.

First, I'm going to give my honest opinion on what I think of the staff. I think there are many weak-minded staff members who are insecure about their authority and are actually actively frightened to ban A3 players because they are afraid of the public backlash they will receive. These players should NOT be a part of the staff. They should be moderators -- forum moderators, IRC moderators, etc. They should lock topics and kick people. For "sensitive" topics, such as permanently banning some A3 members from IRC and forums (not the game, I don't think you should ban people from the game unless they actively cause TONS of problem inside the actual game itself, which usually isn't a problem). Infurnus was probably the best administrator we had, but he seems to have disappeared. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind if Infurnus read this he would at least partly agree with the points that I'm raising.

Now, I'm going to provide you with what started all of this. Around two days ago, AVC started calling Strangle names inside #zandronum, presumably (someone please correct me) because Mobius and co. were harassing him about his IRL pictures. I believe AVC called Strangle retarded or something, which should have warranted a kick or a ban assuming he wasn't just joking around, which from what I could tell he wasn't. Instead, Mobius randomly joins the channel (because somebody told him about this, I wonder who) to come to defend his friends, because many A3 members (remember: I'm not generalizing the entire clan, I'm talking about a specific subset of players) are incapable of talking 1 on 1. I believe Strangle told Mobius about this but I am not 100% confident, obviously this is speculation. Mobius come into the IRC channel #zandronum and starts giving AVC shit about being broke as fuck, black, fat, ugly, and being poor because he was taking pictures in some bathroom. I don't doubt that this type of vigilate justice is sometimes warranted to deter others from doing it, but I believe that they always take it extremely overboard, to the point where players have actually left this community because of harassment.

Now -- I suggested to the staff that they should have banned AVC and Mobius for doing this stupid shit, which they did -- they banned Mobius for 1 month from #zandronum. But note that nobody gave a shit until AFTER I reported it in the #staff channel. This is the weak minded attitude that I'm talking about. The type of ban in my opinion was also completely unwarranted. They will tell you "we usually wait to ban", "we need to discuss it", but these are poor excuses because nobody on the staff is man enough to ban people. In fact, a specific staff member has literally told me they don't want to ban Mobius because they are frightened of the "community" backlash. Mobius has been banned how many times? I'm not talking about 4 or 5 years ago, I'm talking about from 4 or 5 years ago to the present date. For instance, Moti was constantly harassed by these people over IRC for having a long neck, giraffe neck, etc. Jwarrier literally left this community because his children, yes, his two young children, were being shit on by Decay over and over and nobody gave a shit (please read the thread if you think I'm joking). During my argument with A3 a few days ago, I've had numerous people private message me telling me that they agreed with me 100%, but they try to stay out of it because they didn't want to be targeted by them and harassed, etc.

Now on to the length and severity of the ban. Does anyone seriously think a one month ban from #zandronum even means anything? After he was banned, he joined #grandvoid with the sole intent of starting an argument and shitting on me. Then, about 4 other people joined in (all from A3, of course) to basically shit on me too. Notice how when I trash on players I don't need a group of 5 to do it? This hivemind mentality is cancerous to this community and I'm surprised that they haven't been permanently banned. I understand that the staff want to be independent of policing on other "non-official" channels (what does this even mean? you own the fucking network) but I believe that problem offenders (he has been banned how many times from irc?) should be permanently g-lined. In case anyone wants to read the dramafest in #grandvoid 2 days ago, here is the log: http://pastebin.com/qpRWL8iH

Now on to other aspects, I have tried to be a fair and just administrator (on BE and NJ), and in my honest opinion Strangle should NOT be a Zandronum administrator. Strangle, Rustking and Mobius all work together to cause shit and constantly back each other up. They dig up old shit on other players and threaten them with it, in my case it was from ddosing Legion about 4 years ago. Just read the posts and this becomes obvious. Strangle does not take criticism well, and in fact has even banned me from the #staff channel because I called him a shitty admin (sorry that you're a shitty admin, Strangle). Strangle absolutely knows this #zandronum ban has absolutely no impact on Mobius -- he's not stupid.

Now, on to the reason Strangle was actually picked to be an admin. A few years ago I believe during the formation of Zandronum (my timeframe may be off but the events are correct), Infurnus and the "renegade" group of Skulltag admins split off from the Skulltag community and moved to Zandronum. This was a necessary change as Carnevil did bad shit that caused a lot of players to lose faith in him, such as adding backdoors to the Skulltag executable to give him RCON access on any server. After the split, and in lieu of the past (mostly poor) administration, Infurnus decided that he would try to get a representative from each "major group" of voices to be admins (A3, R, NJ, and GV was already properly represented). This is when I was asked to be an admin but turned it down. Strangle however took him up on the offer. I don't know why Strangle was chosen or what Infurnus was thinking but I genuinely believe that this was an extremely poor choice. It's pretty clear that he has shown extreme preferential treatment to certain players and is not a good fit for an admin position.

A3, R, and most other forum users are the vocal minority. We are like 5% of the playerbase. The rest are people playing mm8bdm, gvh, aow, and generally do not post here. Admins need to be assertive and ban instead of beating around the bush and being scared about complaints. Who has heard of an admin team that is scared to ban problem members of the community. This is absolutely pathetic.

TLDR: I am a crybaby and complain about the Zandronum staff not banning problem players even though they've been repeatedly banned 700 times in the past and still cause problems to this day, but are not banned. I think some of the Zandronum staff members should not be staff members, but instead delegated to forum/irc moderators who have very little input but still carry out tasks such as locking obvious shitposts. More sensitive issues should be dealt with by people who know what they're doing. I believe certain community members need to be permanently (or at least 1+ year) from irc, forums, or wherever they shit on.

This is the longest post I have written anywhere and I could probably finish my university essays if I put in half the amount of effort or passion as I did writing this post.

In case it isn't aware, I am upset with the administrators in this community and I have decided to be a petty fucking dipshit and remove moderation from BE. I believe if the admins don't want to remove problem players from their community, then neither will I.

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Re: Major Best Ever moderation change

#20

Post by Ru5tK1ng » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:33 am

Now, I'm going to provide you with what started all of this.
All you simply had to state was you got upset after being removed from the #staff channel and started attacking in the A3 channel. Don't paint yourself to be some superhero getting jumped because this is definitely NOT the first time you attacked members of the clan verbally. You already know the outcome of doing something stupid such as shit talking to a clan in their own channel. Don't pretend to be so naive that you never expected (you should because as I stated, you've done things like that countless times).

You complain that the staff are weak and afraid to ban people because of who they are, but I didn't see you complain when metal's staff was around. If they knew about your DDos attacks, then obviously you weren't going to be banned because metal was never going to allow it. Essentially, NOW the staff appearing to be afraid to ban people is a bad thing because it doesn't benefit YOU anymore. It was made clear when you threw your fit after getting kicked out of #staff.

You can also stop trying to paint AVC like some poor helpless child. He's not a child, he's 18 and our actions against him are due to his similar attitude when he is around us. During scrims, priv, etc, he enjoys shitting on and insulting members of the clan. Apparently, he cannot handle things when they get thrown back into his face but that is his own problem. He should have just kept his mouth shut but didn't. The beef with AVC and A3 is not a 1-way street and he is far from innocent.

There is far more to the jwarrier incident than you know because you weren't there from the beginning. It all stemmed from him getting personal on TS and insulting Ivan's accent and inherently his nationality. Once he went personal it was fair game was it not? You should know, you made fun of Ralphis and threw personal attacks about him for years during ZD IDL. Making personal attacks is fine as long as you're doing it, right?
Notice how when I trash on players I don't need a group of 5 to do it? This hivemind mentality is cancerous to this community and I'm surprised that they haven't been permanently banned.
Because only an idiot will attack an entire clan and get shit on. You know who does things like that too? Capo. Your clan has performed the hive mentality many times in the past. By extension you're all also cancerous and should be removed. Or do you want a free pass because it's your clan?
. Strangle, Rustking and Mobius all work together to cause shit and constantly back each other up. They dig up old shit on other players and threaten them with it, in my case it was from ddosing Legion about 4 years ago
That's a good one. So we are terrorist now who blackmail people to get things? Money? Humorous assertion. Aren't you doing the same thing to get Decay and Mobius perma banned? 'Dig up old shit'. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

If you want an essay response to your essay, you'll have to wait for that from someone else. I'm not at home and I simply had to respond to the romanticized version of your recollection of the events.

Locked