Zandronum

Well, aren't you? I've also heard things in private (PM, etc) and otherwise to prove that fact, but I don't think that person would appreciate if I plastered it all over the forums. Call me a liar if you want, I don't care. Not my prob anymore anyway.

Edit: And that doesn't make this a giant conspiracy theory like you're going on about.

Ru5tK1ng wrote: <Metal> Give me some examples of where you're seeing A3 conspiracies
<Metal> Or that I implied there were any

Metal wrote:

Dusk wrote:"it's always some mxu or a3 conspiracy". Does that sound familiar?

Yep, MXU and A3 sound familiar because they are constantly annoyed with staff.

Doesn't sound like a "conspiracy", just that members of those two groups were constantly upset about staff decisions, which is kinda true, although honestly the only names that seemed to keep coming up were Mobius and Decay.

Metal wrote: Well, aren't you? I've also heard things in private (PM, etc) and otherwise to prove that fact, but I don't think that person would appreciate if I plastered it all over the forums. Call me a liar if you want, I don't care. Not my prob anymore anyway.

Edit: And that doesn't make this a giant conspiracy theory like you're going on about.

Actually I remember in 2013 I got logs about certain staff members spouting off in one of the staff channels that there was some A3 conspiracy going on, and this was between people who still lived in 2010 and thought that era was still relevant. It was pretty funny and sad because back then (and like now) the majority of the clan did not play and weren't really that involved on the forums on the political level (unless you count me and HeavenWraith being on staff) though also was funny seeing people older than me act half my age. So yes, people still use that old and worn out A3 conspiracy even today.

It's also true that some people never change, and seeing how aggressively Metal remarks about how bad the staff is publicly after leaving just show's that she really wasn't meant to be in the position. Nobody that angry and vengeful should be welcomed back into the same position they once had.

Was it an actual statement or was it a sarcastic remark? I'm pretty sure "A3 conspiracy" became a staple norm because of 2010 events.

Razgriz wrote:

Metal wrote: Well, aren't you? I've also heard things in private (PM, etc) and otherwise to prove that fact, but I don't think that person would appreciate if I plastered it all over the forums. Call me a liar if you want, I don't care. Not my prob anymore anyway.

Edit: And that doesn't make this a giant conspiracy theory like you're going on about.

It's also true that some people never change, and seeing how aggressively Metal remarks about how bad the staff is publicly after leaving just show's that she really wasn't meant to be in the position. Nobody that angry and vengeful should be welcomed back into the same position they once had.

Where are you seeing this? My god...

Angry and vengeful? Pulling accusations out of thin air again.

Not to get in the middle of this but it for people stating Metal is ' angry and vengleful' looks a little over the top. She's just defending herself against some wild accusations, and i would have thought many people would have acted with a lot less dignity under the same circumstances. This just seems like a witch hunt that everyone wants add logs to there fire to.

Sorry but give me the staff here compared to the shit we endured in Zdeamon any day.

Is it just me, or are people of the staff just seeing Metal as some sort of heretic. "Ermahgerd, she pissed nao, burn at zhe stake! D:" (like a witch hunt, as Samurai has mentioned above me). I could literally imagine these guys in some cultist outfit with torches and pitchforks going after Metal. First off; WHAT!? Second; THE FUCK!? Third; This all just shows the "maturity" of the community, including it's staff. I'm sure all of you guys are old enough to not act like some popular high-school kid who thinks he or she can do anything he or she wants. Once all of you can get out of your babycradles, then we might get some progress.

This could've gone much worse. So far I'm convinced that Metal hasn't done something wrong, then "some" people tried to pry the wound a bit more open. You've got only yourself to blame for what you've caused :/ Don't fight fire with fire, I'd say. I highly appreciate what you guys have done for the community. This too could've gone to hell a lot sooner if it weren't for you guys. I know; it's not perfect, nothing is, and neither could you have expected Metal to manmode quite a lot of responsibilities she had. This doesn't mean you should just go full tyrant on her ass once she had left the function of an admin.

Hekmatyar wrote:I could literally imagine these guys in some cultist outfit with torches and pitchforks going after Metal. First off; WHAT!? Second; THE FUCK!? Third; This all just shows the "maturity" of the community, including it's staff.

uh, if you haven't noticed, Metal was the one to start this to begin with. So please put your "witch hunt" accusations back where you took them from in the first place.

Woah woah dusk, don't go actin like you're not innocent either. You should interact more with the community if you really wanted to understand what they mean.
If you don't, read swifts last line.

Dusk wrote: uh, if you haven't noticed, Metal was the one to start this to begin with. So please put your "witch hunt" accusations back where you took them from in the first place.

The same could be said for your accusations about Metal. Let's see...:

Dusk wrote: I don't know about everybody else here but let me ask you this: what kind of administrator ragequits lead adminship in a fit of emotion, only to try to get back in, in order to what I presume is to feel important. I'd say, a particularly selfish one who cannot seem to be able to make rational decisions. If you really seem to think you're so untouchable and that us voicing concerns to other people automatically makes us "backstabbers", I can only say having you off your gold-plated throne will only make things better for the community. Good riddance.

I rest my case.

Zap610 wrote: Friendly PSA: If Zandronum falls into chaos, then Carnbarn has won. Don't let the Carnbarn win, don't let Zandronum fall into chaos.

I would like to stress this point.

It's a bad sign when there is infighting among the staff. Most of this thread consists of staff accusing each other.

Well... Originally I didn't really want to be involved in something like this, especially since my involvement in this whole thing that has happened wasn't really that big, but I was there I guess, I committed the crime of voicing my opinion so I'll just go through it.

The first thing I want to address, because you keep coming back to it, is the whole "nobody talks to me" bit. You have been the exact same for years, people have criticized you for the same things for years, and you have not changed at all. You leave when things don't go your way, you are very irrational, hold grudges and put on a false happy face for the people. To talk to you would mean that we would still want you around, in hopes that you would change. In fact, we DID try to talk to you, many many many times, but all we ended up with was our attempts at reform becoming a running joke among the staff. Therefore at this point to talk to you would be entirely defeatist to the cause of getting actual true staff reform. I mean, this is your entire attitude. You are incompetent, knowingly stir the pot, and have to have people do things for you.

I like how this small group of people who mean fuck all, decide what's good for staff.

So in your view, a developer and other prominent members of the community "mean fuck all" just because they voiced concerns to someone. It's good to know that our contributions are valued I guess, unless we happen to disagree with you, that of course makes us about as useful as a broken fan, and in fact to you makes us comparable to Kilgore for some incomprehensible reason.

But anyway, after the attempts to talk to you fell on deaf ears, this "small group of people who mean fuck all" (not actually that small as RustK1ng wisely pointed out) we decided to talk to the people who actually host and develop zandronum, and they decided to listen us, instead of shooting down our complaints as "just some guy complaining about his banned friend who creates a staff reform thread in return". I'm sorry if you feel that the ones directly responsible for the existence of zandronum shouldn't be contacted for any reason and that you are able to handle everything and we shouldn't have dared to contact them, but well, what can I say, shit happens?

I'll bite. Cause you know what? I just don't care anymore. It's people like you who make it not even worth it anymore.

If you don't care anymore, then please I'm curious tell me the next part of your grandiose plan, continuing to make backhanded comments at the ones you deem responsible for getting you to step down just so you can take your revenge or some other outlandish plan like that? Because you know, not that I like constantly bringing up the same thing, but there was a certain person who was warned for "making backhanded comments at the staff", and now look at who is doing it...

You may not like me, or Dusk, or RustK1ng, or who knows how many other people that dared stand in your way. This however is as far as I'm concerned no justification to all the attacks you are doing.

May I ask what level of psychology you're taking?

Sorry if we took the liberty of judging you. I forgot you were the only one authorized to insult people (behind their backs even) and comparing them to kilgore for reasons that have nothing to do with what happened. Seriously, why don't you spare yourself further embarassment and step out of this thread?

You ignored a majority of the points made by Dusk's post, and in reality, this is all you do. You selectively pick and choose things to get mad over, even out of context. Try actually addressing the points next time you argue with someone instead of picking out the most subjective things. This quote of yours, "You didn't fix it, because now it's worse than it was." The moment you leave staff, in your mind, apparently it began to suck. If you think there is a problem with "tattling" then something is wrong. And there were MANY things going wrong, but there is so much we could pick from that I'm not even sure where to start. Nonetheless, I think this should suffice: http://pastebin.com/nGRqS2vq . No matter what you say here, the logs and the posts show you are pissed, and this thread proves you are being spiteful and vengeful. But let's go to crazy-hou-lou-mou land for a second and assume you are not pissed. Remember the "Let's Talk" thread? Where you said you'd step down if asked? So why aren't you just going quietly instead of raising a ruckus? If you were in a calm and collected mood when you resigned, none of this should be happening. The fact that it is happening is pure drama, instigated by you. Not entirely unlike something that had been seen before either.

Again, evidence was provided to demonstrate that your track record of administratorship is full of holes. Any time something actually comes up, you falter, and the logs show it. There are better people for this job, and I look forward to supporting infurnus in these new times. For those saying this is a witch hunt, you are quite wrong, it is a truth hunt, and truths are presented. Look at who is the first post, look who is insulting people, look at who is being aggressive. I think the best way to end this drama /you/ started would be by repeating something you made a while ago, probably the only good thing you've ever done

<Metal> Do you what you want
<Metal> I dunno
<Metal> I'm done with this
* Metal has quit ()

As for me, I'm just gonna echo what Razgriz, Dusk and others have said: Good riddance.

Samurai wrote:Sorry but give me the staff here compared to the shit we endured in Zdeamon any day.

Just because something is better than something else, doesn't mean it is perfect. I think there's room for improvement, and that's what we tried to do here, nothing more, nothing less. In light of this I don't think the attacks Dusk received were warranted, especially since all he did was explain the truth to the community.



Now... I certainly wouldn't be surprised if the stuff I said was taken out of context, if I was called a crybaby and a traitor, and if I was insulted somewhere outside of this thread. But I would like to say that everything I've done for zandronum, I've done it for its good. I was a mod for some time, and when metal was in charge many times on altdeath and IRC I stood up for her, defending her actions even when I advised she shouldn't do it, and most of the time even against my better judgement. I could be called a "staff hater", but in reality, it's mostly Metal I have a problem with, and for example to this day I still say to people that I think Cyber didn't do that bad of a job back when he was the admin, and there were a lot of people on staff that I am glad I have worked with (not sure if the same goes for them). And as I already said, I look forward to what infurnus and the other two admins are going to do in their respective fields, and have faith in them. But I just think that after years of the same arguments, same drama and same problems always occurring, it's about time I said what I really think. Now if I should be crucified for that, that's up to the community to decide. I think for once, change can finally happen. Change for the better. But regardless of that... Zandronum still goes on. The forums are still there, the IRC is still there, the master server is still there. This certainly isn't the end.



EDIT: fixed some broken links and removed some unnecessary ones, I apologize.

I know the some of the staff (and ex-staff) despises me for my actions and ideas since #WTF and several moments in #STMods [back in the SkullTag era], but I am going to share my thoughts on this entire subject - and then I'll just continue to read the rest for my entertainment later tonight.

I really wish this entire issue was dealt with in a mature manner, mostly everyone (exception to a few posts) is showing their true childish behaviors. If you are going to argue over these pointless issues, do it in another environment and in a proper attitude without being immature or carrying the "Whatever" or "I am always right" etc etc... These posts makes me feels like I am reading theft for the very first time.

Brief and not so pin-point accurate general thumb of rule: If the Administrator is incompetent and shows no signs of bettering themselves, then it is time for a change. If the entire staff can not get organized or faces issues, then the administrator (or a position higher than the staff member) must sort it out.

EDIT Reason: Revision update

Lol i hope Rustking will never Admin/mod here. All why he is here. Is for drama and drama and again drama. Without any effort for community. He can seems strong and smart sometime. But its only for affection important ppl. And make more effective his another trolling, pranks, dramas etc.
Simple this all ppl like Dynamo or HW and all the A3 or MXU could just disappear forever. You guys left your positions. You could also left this community and stop care. LMAO

I did want to keep out of this drama completely (as I've tried to do in the past) but I feel like something should be clarified since I see this come up over and over again.

MXU is not Decay, Heavenwraith, or Dusk (compared to most other members HW is also pretty new). I originally lead the group and while my involvement has waned over the last couple years, I still do lead the group. However, the individual attitudes and behaviors of those within the group are not reflective of the attitudes of the entire group. When I took my year-long break from Doom last year, the group was sort-of left to its own devices for a while and Decay, being the most salient member of the group during that time somehow became the figurehead for the whole group - but nonetheless it is a mistake to conflate the two. Most of MXU's members have actually been staff at one point, and heck, I'm still an IRC Operator.

And in cherry-picking what some would call the more problematic members of the group (depending on which side of the fence you are on) to represent the entire group, you are leaving out those who we can all be sure are not involved in any community drama. Jimmy? Dr3K? Malinku? Kamai? Hicks? Shane? Disguise? Remmirath? Contributors like Blzut and Wartorn? Do I even need to give more examples?

Especially considering how I am around and more active now, I don't appreciate the hasty generalization with regards to the entire group. This is between two sets of individuals, MXU is just a modding team, we're just making maps (albeit a little slowly right now).

Grymmoire understands. I still believe it's more of a problem with the people who have gotten in trouble here on zandro, (any skulltag events I consider void) and have continued to cause it as the source of most issues, as some posters here have seen. To me it feels more of a "why is he in less trouble than me" deal where two people are in trouble and one is upset that the other got a slap.

Since we're discussing metal, a lot of bans were discussed, I know those logs were not between my retirement Except maybe one. However a lot of them had a root effect from them starting trouble, getting in trouble for it, then someone else whose a first timer gets in trouble and a lesser sentence is given. Suddenly here comes the first one who asks why, admin gives reason, and then trouble guy 1 goes around screaming unfair.

The deal is that people don't see that when gossip like "I got banned" is spread so they don't know the full story of why. Take the backhand comment on water for example in dynamos log. Did anyone know he's been trolling individual users for a while? I didn't either and I still hope he tried to improve that but the point is I would be against him too if he was trolling users just to troll.


More to come maybe but I'm at work and dependant on what involves me.

You know, if this is how Metal behaves now, I have to wonder how she got appointed to any position of power in the first place.

Also notice how admin drama in the Zandronum community is always disconnected from the rest of the community at large. It's almost as if this bickering is ultimately petty and pointless, and that the community is doing a better job of policing themselves than the staff are at keeping each other in check.

Arche - it's like I said before, the only ones who ever care are the ones who get in trouble and share half the story to the rest. The majority of us cares less since they don't do anything to warrant a ban of any limit. Even with metal gone, the rules here are just as soft as mine where you have to case trouble on a big scale to get banned. In short community wise it won't change unless the current staff decides to stop fighting among each other and start paying attention to the actual community if they want to get things done, or they go stricter with their rules.

People have no problems with a person unless they do something to gain the attention of a higher up. This is where we're at.

capo why are you still here

Luke wrote: But yes, I don't want to advocate anyone or anything here.

Luke wrote: I would even purpose myself for a staff's position,

You contradicted yourself there...