A note to all future server hosts

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Jenova
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A note to all future server hosts

#1

Post by Jenova » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:21 pm

As many of you know, me and Watermelon host the BE server cluster. BE allows any Zandronum player to customize and host any server they like, and gives the hoster total control of their server. Users can also upload any wads or configuration files they like. We use our own system resources, and I personally pay out of the pocket for the dedicated server. We provide this service free of any charge, free of advertisements, and have a very lax set of rules which dictate what you can and can't do with your servers.

I figured since each server administrator is given the RCON (a unique key), they could moderate and keep their own server under control, shifting the effort I had to put in to administrate the servers to the server starters. This worked out great for me because I am mostly just interested in updating the bot, and am usually too busy with business/school related things to keep constant watch of all of the servers (peaking at around 90 at one point).

The reason I'm writing this is because someone had brought to my attention a conversation between Konar6, Dusk, and DarkAssassin (respectively, IRC administrator, developer, and former administrator). During this conversation (which you can read here: http://pastebin.com/qhuguXcN) they were criticizing BE for allowing users to administrate their own servers. Personally, I think it's a great idea, because it means that I have to do almost nothing, while server issues are handled by the server hosts themselves. I should point out that in case of extraordinary circumstance (server admin abuse, which almost never happens) a BE admin can easily intervene and ban the said user, as well as shutting down their servers.

However, this did not seem to go well with the three aforementioned players. Instead of acting like mature adults, these "admins" had considered: Banning me, Blocking BE from the master server, blocking AOW2 from being run on BE, and even implementing a virus that would crash the server if it's run from BE. I'm posting this to address some of the concerns, as well as expose the "administrators" for their ridiculous selfish attitude.
Konar6 wrote:you are one of the BE followers (probably because half of the server including you has rcon...) Kinda awkward from someone who's a regular here to support the rebellion server and settings that shit on all the work that has been done on AOW
According to Konar, giving power to the same people that play your servers means that it is some kind of Rebellion server. Oh no, we don't conform to having one administrator (Konar) that is able to ban everybody for any reason! We are criminals!

To address that second part, these people have some type of misconception about what "shitting on the work that has been done on AOW2". Apparently, because Zoido, is hosting an AOW2 server that runs an older version, that the majority of players seem to prefer over the newer version, I am somehow indirectly shitting on the work of Dusk.

I'd just like to point out how stupid the above statement is. How about instead of forcing people to play what most consider an inferior wad, you fix the issues in the newer version that would make people want to upgrade? These same people critcize Zdaemon for their tyrannical-like ruling style, but want to force users to play wads that they don't want to. Stupid.
Dusk wrote: 2013-02-11 08:55:51 <@Dusk`> pretty much so Ermac
2013-02-11 08:55:56 <@Dusk`> by all logic i should just ban you now
2013-02-11 08:58:01 <@Dusk`> what do you have in your defense?
2013-02-11 08:58:11 <@Dusk`> in addition to a shitty server to spite my years of work
Great attitude for a developer of Zandronum to have, even though if you check the log, literally the only thing Ermac said was "Why is BE bad? I ping low there".
Konar6 wrote: 2013-02-11 09:07:14 <%Konar6> + side remark, BE appears to be actually in New Jersey so idk why Jenova claims NY in the hostname
To address this to any future readers, BE is actually located in New York: http://www.reliablesite.net/network/
Dusk wrote: 013-02-11 09:07:40 <@Dusk`> well new jersey is in new york
Well, that might explain it!
2013-02-11 09:17:01 <@Dusk`> i'm offended that your server is in direct opposition of what i've worked for
2013-02-11 09:17:10 <@Dusk`> you host the maps that were removed (and for a reason)
2013-02-11 09:17:20 <%Konar6> if it was just maps
2013-02-11 09:17:25 <+Ermac> I am not admin of that server, they offered me but I refused
2013-02-11 09:17:38 <@Dusk`> your kindred still supports it
2013-02-11 09:17:38 <%Konar6> but that server is idiot fest... like playign with fraglimits...
2013-02-11 09:17:46 <@Dusk`> it lets them vote for stupid fraglimits that get -- yeah
ACK OH NO PEOPLE ARE PLAYING WHAT THEY ENJOY CODE RED ABORT MISSION ABORT MISSION UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
2013-02-11 09:19:21 <@Dark-Assassin> Why not start out own port, based from the best early zdoom build, and make it modern. Not another OS thing, not ZDoom's scale of hacks. Totally separate.
2013-02-11 09:19:31 <@Dusk`> i've considered doing that
Good idea Dark Assassin! Maybe you can get your admin removed on that one too! Maybe Dusk, Konar6 and DarkAssassin can all team up and create the ultimate doom port, where the only wad you can play are the official AOW2 releases from Dusk, and everything else is blacklisted! I'm liking the sound of that!
DarkAssassin wrote: 2013-02-11 09:44:57 <@Dark-Assassin> That's what happens when you get A3, UD and R in to the staff. But it's not really that anyway. Though the staff could be more encouraging.
Yes, everyone in R is on the staff. We have vital R members spying right now: TheToxicAvenger[R], Dynamo[R], and don't forget Ruin[R]!!! In case you are reading this DA, that was a joke (you do not seem too bright).

To be honest, I could probably keep on going with these little excerpts, but if you read the pastebin you'll most likely get the gist of it.

I find it hilarious how Konar complains about people playing what they actually enjoy and "ruining" the wad. God forbid people actually play what they enjoy! Konar, the same person who criticizes private CTF players for only playing private CTF is now complaining that people are adding too much variety.

Here's some food for thought Konar: Why aren't more people playing on GV? If the self-administrated servers are so bad, why do they still get used substantially? If people had a problem with the admins, wouldn't they just not play on the server? Then again, I'm not surprised this is coming from a Grandvoid administrator. I remember a while ago where I had to convince some Grandvoid admins for 45 minutes that there was an aliaser in the private CTF server, while they tried to convince me that it wasn't against the rules. Maybe if you had hired more competent administrator (or even let users administrate their own server, like BE!), you could actually do a decent job of running servers.

To summarize, this is the type of treatment you're bound to get from administrators once they stop playing on their oh-so-beloved Grandvoid servers, and play on alternative servers that they actually enjoy! I would normally expect this sort of treatment from some random people who just have some personal issues with me sure, but going as far as to code a virus into your wad is pretty pathetic. The overall impression that this gives me about the staff is just terrible, and as a result really questions the validity of the staff. I can't wait until I get banned, and my servers blacklisted for criticizing this joke of a discussion that was held by former and current staff members!

This is the type of treatment you're in for when you try to provide a service for the Zandronum community!

Have fun!

Stan
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#2

Post by Stan » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:28 pm

I like the idea of being able to host/play what I want, when I want.

I think BE is a good thing, I'm sure the number of people that like having BE around will outnumber the people who dislike it by far.
Last edited by Stan on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Watermelon
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#3

Post by Watermelon » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:35 pm

I hope BE doesn't go down. I helped out on adding features to the bot and have spent a lot of time helping people out, would not be fun if all that work was removed.

:(

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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#4

Post by Monsoon » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:35 pm

GreenHell wrote:the people who dislike it by far.
all of three people dislike the service.
Last edited by Monsoon on Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Combinebobnt
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#5

Post by Combinebobnt » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:40 pm

I hope the staff converse so that this is resolved in a just and orderly manner and doesn't end up with two sides fighting eachother like world war 3 and bad things happening.

I do have a slight feeling however that the 'konar side' (whatever you want to call it) didn't completely catch that people who host with bestever have their OWN responsibility and choice on what they host and to manage it, and it is entirely up to them to keep to it. Jenova doesn't intervene unless really dumb stuff happens or there are obvious rules being broken. In other words, the servers are by the people; best-ever is mainly a tool for getting a physical server hosted.

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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#6

Post by Tux » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:40 pm

a drama everyday keeps the players away
why did you post it here anyway? meh, this community is falling because dramas every single week; last week it was teletha and J, today it's this thread
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dear diary, tux today was a faggot again[/size]

Watermelon
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#7

Post by Watermelon » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:42 pm

BigMacintosh wrote: "I don't like Konar, and here's some pastebin snippets of people expressing their opinions."

Why did you spend so many words saying just that?
Registering an account just to post something that completely missed the point of a thread is not a good start.

I implore you to read it again.

Zap610
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#8

Post by Zap610 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:43 pm

OH MY GOD AN IRC OP, A DEV, AND AN EX ADMIN WHO WANTS TO FORK HAVE OPINIONS THAT DIFFER THAN MINE BETTER MAKE A THREAD TO STIR UP DRAMA! Because the opinions of two staff members totally equal the entire Zandronum team.
Last edited by Zap610 on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Galactus
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#9

Post by Galactus » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:46 pm

i like be a lot i can't see what the problem is that you can host whatever you want.

Reach Term
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#10

Post by Reach Term » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:58 pm

All I see is K6 and others crying about Jenova and Red's server getting more players. I wouldn't be surprised about the whole ordeal if smaller clusters hosters would be on K6's side.

Hello mate. I see you still have a little bad in you. I thought the admin hazing removed all that bad.
OH MY GOD AN IRC OP, A DEV, AND AN EX ADMIN WHO WANTS TO FORK HAVE OPINIONS THAT DIFFER THAN MINE BETTER MAKE A THREAD TO STIR UP DRAMA! Because the opinions of two staff members totally equal the entire Zandronum team.

EDIT: Whoa, thanks for reporting my post I didn't mean to post that many times the forum bugged out.
Hello mate. I see you still have a little bad in you. I thought the admin hazing removed all that bad
Last edited by Reach Term on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zap610
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#11

Post by Zap610 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:17 pm

Nobody is perfect.

Neewbie
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#12

Post by Neewbie » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:26 pm

I'll make some popcorn.
I'm on the BE side this time :>

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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#13

Post by Ivan » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:28 pm

The services BE provides is good, rest of the servers should also come up with their own bots IMO if they are all this bothered with it.
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#14

Post by Slyfox » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:28 pm

Mobius Law:
In the Doom community: each pastebin log either contains the name Mobius or associated A3 material
Last edited by Slyfox on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#15

Post by Hypnotoad » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:34 pm

People should have the right to host whatever they want. I know it can be really frustrating when someone hosts an outdated version of something you're working on and it takes players away from the updated servers, I've been there myself. The best solution is to get in contact with the admins of that server ASAP; normally they will agree to update/fix the server and it is often just out of ignorance, but if they don't then there may be something wrong with the latest version of your project and you're better off rectifying those issues instead instead of demanding some draconian server policy.
Last edited by Hypnotoad on Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zakken
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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#16

Post by Zakken » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:35 pm

Zap610 wrote: OH MY GOD AN IRC OP, A DEV, AND AN EX ADMIN WHO WANTS TO FORK HAVE OPINIONS THAT DIFFER THAN MINE BETTER MAKE A THREAD TO STIR UP DRAMA!
It becomes a problem when they threatened to block BE from the master and implement a crash virus (you know, stuff that usually warrants a master ban?). Keep in mind that they aren't just "expressing their opinion", but they are also apparently seeking to terminate a server cluster and lock a popular mod.

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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#17

Post by Catastrophe » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:36 pm

Reach Term wrote: All I see is K6 and others crying about Jenova and Red's server getting more players. I wouldn't be surprised about the whole ordeal if smaller clusters hosters would be on K6's side.

Hello mate. I see you still have a little bad in you. I thought the admin hazing removed all that bad.
OH MY GOD AN IRC OP, A DEV, AND AN EX ADMIN WHO WANTS TO FORK HAVE OPINIONS THAT DIFFER THAN MINE BETTER MAKE A THREAD TO STIR UP DRAMA! Because the opinions of two staff members totally equal the entire Zandronum team.

EDIT: Whoa, thanks for reporting my post I didn't mean to post that many times the forum bugged out.
Hello mate. I see you still have a little bad in you. I thought the admin hazing removed all that bad
Didn't you quit this community? I see you are only here for drama.

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RE: A note to all future server hosts

#18

Post by HeavenWraith » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:40 pm

The issue has been resolved and I'm archiving this before it gets hot again.
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[18:55] <Decay> if you're upset, it is your obligation to make someone else upset

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