Moderator Warnings [split from MM8BDM Challenge Thread]

[Qent]

This annoys me because it's sort of a contraction. If someone made a bad thread that wasn't a project and no one likes it, shouldn't that person take that very harsh criticism?

A contraction?

By the way, harsh criticism is not necessarily bad, and it would probably be helpful in this case.

Before anyone states: That's trolling.

Welcome to the world of the grey area of trolling. Because at this point how can anyone see the lines between people who are being harsh and people who are being subtle.

Yes. And I will try my best to use all available information to determine whether some thread is trolling or legitimate. Sometimes I will be wrong. Meanwhile, everyone else can help by not feeding trolls.

Well Watermelon you see, different punishments for different people is the definition of ST/zanzan administration!

Perhaps this isn't what you mean, but the same post made by two different people could be interpreted very differently. If it's a known troll, then, absent any other information, chances are that the post is yet another attempt to troll. If not, odds are it isn't.

[DTDsphere]

There's so much text in this thread! Lets hope something will come of it.

[ibm5155]

Warnings are not needed in threads like these; wait and see where they go. There is no point in continually telling us "don't state your opinion or get warned" or "no pointless posts or get warned," it's all in the rules anyway.

Nobody likes to have that shoved in their face. Those kind of "don't post or we will warn you" post can absolutely fuck off. The community doesn't need it's administration power-tripping all over the place. We damn well know when we post something warn-able, we see it coming. Unless we compare minecraft to lego, then it's a little unpredictable. You don't need to continually tell us what we already know.

Totally agreed. That's why I am getting more and more inactive in this forum ....

this.
Well for now I only got two warns, one 10% and other 20% (with a bit reason and not right explained from my part)

Off-topics, it´s a forum, you just can´t warn people and delete some off-topics from a post, it´s just natural to came some kind, but it have limits you can´t ex:"author post your first mod, other guy post that the screen shots remember he a video of a banana, other dud post about the same thing, and the other post about another thing..."

I think it could be like this "author post your first mod, other guy post that the screen shots remember he a video of a banana, other dud post about the same thing, and the other post about another thing But returned talking about the author mod, and the other guy talk about the mod,..."

I still don´t get why a warning system, if I get 100% warn i get a ban? isn´t better just warnings with no points and ban if required?

[Metal]

Warnings are not needed in threads like these; wait and see where they go. There is no point in continually telling us "don't state your opinion or get warned" or "no pointless posts or get warned," it's all in the rules anyway.

Nobody likes to have that shoved in their face. Those kind of "don't post or we will warn you" post can absolutely fuck off. The community doesn't need it's administration power-tripping all over the place. We damn well know when we post something warn-able, we see it coming. Unless we compare minecraft to lego, then it's a little unpredictable. You don't need to continually tell us what we already know.

Totally agreed. That's why I am getting more and more inactive in this forum ....

this.
Well for now I only got two warns, one 10% and other 20% (with a bit reason and not right explained from my part)

All three posts cry "I got warned, the mods are power tripping because I was right and they were wrong. Now I'm going to be here less because the mods do their job."

Get over it :/

Edit: Kinda funny too how all 3 of you have warning %'s for legit reasons. Just saying.

[Metal]

Get fucking bent.

I had asked you to tone down your attitude. And you've been warned for this before. Take a break for a little while.

If anyone else would like to discuss this in a civil and mature manner, please feel free.

[Zakken]

Take a break for a little while.

Your fault for generalizing his post and saying he was crying about something that had little relation to what he actually wrote. I would be offended too.

[Metal]

Take a break for a little while.

Your fault for generalizing his post and saying he was crying about something that had no relation to what he actually wrote. I would be offended too.

I asked him to stop being hostile and maybe I would listen, but he didn't. He had to be REMINDED that he needs to bring things up in a civil manner. Thus the public warning I issued him. Did you read that? Doubt it. But sure, play the blame game here and call me "Kilgore".

[mifu]

Hey guys, Ive got the solution here.

The fact that you may think the public warnings are annoying as hell, fact is people seem to not get the message. Im not a forum mod, and I see posts or threads what break various rules anyways. Im not going to post examples because you can find them all in the Trash section.

If you do not want the mods to publicly warn everyone to not do something, then how about you help us out a lill and actauly follow the rules? If you have to remind us that your breaking a particular rule or if a thread is going to go downhill, then a mod may feel inclined to remind you of the rules just to attempt to save the thread. If you do not want to be warned at all, well you know.

And if you guys feel that this system is flawed, then instead of ranting or hating on the staff. how about provide feedback in a civil manner as Metal tried to explain. And keep the stupid posts out of here.

We do accept feedback, just when your going to be uncivil about it is when things go downhill.

[Cyber']

Mifu's got a point, and considering if TTA didn't post in that thread, I wouldn't be surprised if people decided to do their troll post for that +1 trash board. It seems to be pretty common around here.

[Reach Term]

This annoys me because it's sort of a contraction. If someone made a bad thread that wasn't a project and no one likes it, shouldn't that person take that very harsh criticism?

A contraction?

By the way, harsh criticism is not necessarily bad, and it would probably be helpful in this case.

Before anyone states: That's trolling.

Welcome to the world of the grey area of trolling. Because at this point how can anyone see the lines between people who are being harsh and people who are being subtle.

Yes. And I will try my best to use all available information to determine whether some thread is trolling or legitimate. Sometimes I will be wrong. Meanwhile, everyone else can help by not feeding trolls.

I'm sorry, I was up all night because of a messed up sleeping schedule. I meant contradiction. Also yes, but still, some people in the moderation community plays favouritism and allow subtle trolling whether it'll be the forums, in-game or even the main irc channel. It gets me going when someone who leaves a light heart-ed scacastic remark and get a warning(even worst a ban) as the same as someone, actually for example our mean spirited rager Decay who just told Metal to "get bent" because of a misinterpreted comment. You know, I know this community in terms with moderation is going to great heights. I think why people are getting pissed off because they want a more liberal(or worst, anarchist) place. I do want more freedom but if the cost of that freedom is people posting shit threads and shit people posting in those shit thread to stirred shit.(Quite the saying, lol) Then I would say no. I do agree that topic starters should be liable for the contents of their topics(given they're not new and first offenders) and that said thread should be deleted and warn for attracting shit. However, new and first time offenders should not get warn but rather a PM saying they've been unofficially warned and not to do it again.

[wildweasel]

This probably isn't going to help things at all, but I feel I need to say that this is just one of the many things that drives me absolutely nuts about being a moderator. It is impossible to satisfy everybody. Many times you'll find that the users think they know how to do the job better than you. Maybe once in a while they're actually right. But most of the time, there's no way to make everybody happy. There will always be the dissenting parties, the people that will take offense at absolutely every little thing that a moderator does.

All that said, I feel that the moderators here are doing just fine. The rules, and the mods that interpret and enforce them, are the compromise the community has to accept, over the alternative of being "run" by the sorts of people that would be banned under any sane rule set.

[NachtIntellect]

Wow... just wow, if I may add something what decay said was really uncalled for, I would've like to think he could talk about this all calmly without any abuse to others, I did not actually think he was that type of person, but it appears I got proven wrong if only he could of done this in a calm matter all of this could have been solved in a matter of minutes instead of a few hours.

Also WildWeasel I completely agree that it is hard to satisfy everyone and sometimes when you try to satisfy someone it gets in the way of your job as a moderator I often found a lot of times for doing the right thing as my job I would get abused for it in a crude manner by some troll or kid, they even went as far to spam my inbox with different emails.

[Zap610]

I've taken a look at some of the split posts from this thread, and I'm honestly shocked at how childish some of you are. We are willing to work with you here, hell we even made an entire area to voice your opinions in a civil manner. But some people want more and more. This isn't about trying to please everyone it's about people not being happy with what they get. And this isn't even scratching the surface of what the thread was even about. The alternatives for warnings are suspensions and bans instead of, well, warnings. A warning is exactly what it sounds like; something to say "HEY STOP DOING THAT". If you continue with it then don't expect us to look the other way just because you might think it's stupid. The right thing to do would be to discuss it here and actually explain the issue instead of making unsupported, over generalized claims such as how we want to stop users from sharing opinions. At the end of the day, it's up to you. If you want to keep slinging mud then don't expect anything to change. Change can only come about here through civil, rational reasoning not mindless force. You can push and push and troll all you want, but as shown in this thread you will get nowhere. And don't even get me started on gunning for staff members. Really, we are only human. If one of us says something you might find offensive do you think it's going to look good if you quote it and try to make us look like shit? You are bringing the issues to us so attacking isn't wise. Just say something, say what the problem is. I feel like I'm repeating myself a thousand times.

[Dusk]

I was intending on avoiding posting in this thread but I'll have to say a few words now. What I'm seeing here in general is that stuff is getting split at a very low threshold and people aren't liking it.

http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1843 - was this really warranting a ban like that? I see a few split posts which could have been avoided but banning over them feels quite rash. Maybe I'm missing something here.

What did Puhax do to get banned? I see some dumb picture about it but was that really enough to warrant not a ban, but an instant one as well? And if it was, would it still be warranting a ban was it directed at someone else?

As far as Decay goes I'm trying as hard as I can to see both parties and I'm seeing flaws on both sides. Decay's attitude was uncalled for, but:

Those kind of "don't post or we will warn you" post can absolutely fuck off.

You really need to word things better. Your whole "The whole world can fuck off" attitude isn't really getting you far and all it's saying to me is "I'm pissed off, and they're going to hear about it!". Really, give your opinions in a less aggressive manner and maybe we'll listen.

He said that the warnings being shoved in everyone's faces could `fuck off` and you jump the gun to give such a response like that? Even HeavenWraith was clearly trying to see the opposing party here. I do acknowledge that `get fucking bent` was uncalled for, however.

I'm seeing the ban hammer flying quite freely around here and am getting quite concerned about this. It's there to rid of troublemakers to keep up the peace and civilty of the forums, a last resort. Mobius and Ral I can easily understand, but banning all of SwiftShot, Decay and Puhax like that feels quite uncalled for in my eyes.

[Reach Term]

I've taken a look at some of the split posts from this thread, and I'm honestly shocked at how childish some of you are. We are willing to work with you here, hell we even made an entire area to voice your opinions in a civil manner. But some people want more and more. This isn't about trying to please everyone it's about people not being happy with what they get. And this isn't even scratching the surface of what the thread was even about. The alternatives for warnings are suspensions and bans instead of, well, warnings. A warning is exactly what it sounds like; something to say "HEY STOP DOING THAT". If you continue with it then don't expect us to look the other way just because you might think it's stupid. The right thing to do would be to discuss it here and actually explain the issue instead of making unsupported, over generalized claims such as how we want to stop users from sharing opinions. At the end of the day, it's up to you. If you want to keep slinging mud then don't expect anything to change. Change can only come about here through civil, rational reasoning not mindless force. You can push and push and troll all you want, but as shown in this thread you will get nowhere. And don't even get me started on gunning for staff members. Really, we are only human. If one of us says something you might find offensive do you think it's going to look good if you quote it and try to make us look like shit? You are bringing the issues to us so attacking isn't wise. Just say something, say what the problem is. I feel like I'm repeating myself a thousand times.

Agreed with you. In fact, I now lost immense amount respect for all of people who have their post split for this thread. In fact I've never seen such immaturity from a civilized standpoint. In fact, starting now... I take back everything I had to do with trolling in this community and stop allowing people(even myself) glorifying me in such a matter because of lack of neutral respect and civilized matter that the moderation team has asked for and shall respectfully should get - This was the main reason why I left this community from a full time standpoint. This thread was created because a person(who had a poor choice of words and that's his fault) was getting tired of of publicly open warnings and(if I understood his reasons) we should move on that thread starters should take some form of liability and consequences for their own immaturity when most of the time, even when they didn't mean it. I'm starting to think with all this balanced, over-protection and "everyone is the same" treatment is slowly destroy a person's sense hindsight and ability of basic social conventions. Gaming communities are just like social jungle of high school. If you're going to act immature and a cretin, you shall be treated as such with no redeeming respect.(Something that I've learned the hard way)

[Metal]

I was intending on avoiding posting in this thread but I'll have to say a few words now. What I'm seeing here in general is that stuff is getting split at a very low threshold and people aren't liking it.

What people? I see people from #mechanixunion jumping in and flinging crap, but everyone else seems okay with the splitting and banning.

http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=1843 - was this really warranting a ban like that? I see a few split posts which could have been avoided but banning over them feels quite rash. Maybe I'm missing something here.

That ban has nothing to do with any of this. But if you want your answer, Swiftshot has had many many warns in the past for useless posting and agitated posting. So yeah, you missed that, I guess.

What did Puhax do to get banned? I see some dumb picture about it but was that really enough to warrant not a ban, but an instant one as well? And if it was, would it still be warranting a ban was it directed at someone else?

Yeah, it would warrant a ban if it was directed at someone else. And also, he was doing it solely to troll.

As far as Decay goes I'm trying as hard as I can to see both parties and I'm seeing flaws on both sides. Decay's attitude was uncalled for, but:

Those kind of "don't post or we will warn you" post can absolutely fuck off.

You really need to word things better. Your whole "The whole world can fuck off" attitude isn't really getting you far and all it's saying to me is "I'm pissed off, and they're going to hear about it!". Really, give your opinions in a less aggressive manner and maybe we'll listen.

He said that the warnings being shoved in everyone's faces could `fuck off` and you jump the gun to give such a response like that? Even HeavenWraith was clearly trying to see the opposing party here. I do acknowledge that `get fucking bent` was uncalled for, however.

The way he worded everything was uncalled for. He's got a bad attitude and a lot of people have complained to me about it in the past, AND he's been warned in the past about it. If he wants to be heard, maybe he should let go of the cranky old man attitude.

I'm seeing the ban hammer flying quite freely around here and am getting quite concerned about this. It's there to rid of troublemakers to keep up the peace and civilty of the forums, a last resort. Mobius and Ral I can easily understand, but banning all of SwiftShot, Decay and Puhax like that feels quite uncalled for in my eyes.

I'm not. I see Swift, Decay and Puhax now banned. 3 bans in a 1-2 month period isn't exactly 'harmful'. Considering that these people deliberately break the rules. If people want to flame, troll, and agitate others and expect no consequences, then that is there problem.

[Torvald]

If you do not want the mods to publicly warn everyone to not do something, then how about you help us out a lill and actauly follow the rules?

Someone please sticky this.

This whole thread is a prime example as to why these warning are handed out in the first place. What Decay said was pretty harsh - even by my standards.

It's not like TTA said "anyone who makes a joke is getting banned". He simply left a calm & simple warning telling people to keep it civil; and given the past history this forum has had with bronies & MM8BDM, it's completely understandable.

None of this would even exists if outbursts like this never happened. That's almost the same as a criminal complaining of being babysat by a probation officer. If he didn't break the law in the first place, he wouldn't have to deal with all that bullshit.

[Reach Term]

Decay's ban

To be fair, I thought the ban was in order. Metal told him to calm down and word things better and he just told her to fuck off and gave her the finger. It was like he was asking for it.

[Alpha]

I can't help but ask who is right and who is wrong?

[NachtIntellect]

Although it would be easier (Not better) to blame just one party I would have to say both parties are to blame, it could have been just one more simple warning to calm down the tone.