Rules revised or flexible actions taken.

[KalFoxis]

Better than making even yourselves look stupid for trying to explain such a trivial thing that can't be simplified any further.

It's a rule. Deal w/it. If you can't understand why such a rule exists, then I hope that one day you will. If this rule makes no sense, how come nobody supports you? That would mean that you are the only one smart here and we are all dumb, which is not quite possible.

There you go. nuff said.

[Guest]

WHERE THE FUCK

are the rules?

[Qent]

After that kind of action i would also recommend to the Zan Staff to remove the reputation system.

You are free to opt out of the reputation system: go to your group memberships, join the "No Rep System" group, and set it to your display group.

[Wartorn]

I have the problem where my mods aren't screenshotable or worth recording (see: drop pack). wat do

Besides a download link (Which in most of these cases you've already provided and as a result you're already covered), I can probably implement a utility release tag if there's enough demand for it.

[Guest]

Fuck...

How can we have a good behavior if the rules are so hidden? I can't find it!

Don't complain if people start to bitch like an ass about the staff actions (don't matter if it's right or wrong). I was poked by one few days ago, but at least he was polite, in my opinion (please, this is not sarcasm).

http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=210

Thanks Disguise.

[UnTrustable]

Don't complain if people start to bitch like an ass about the staff actions (don't matter if it's right or wrong). I was poked by one few days ago, but at least he was polite, in my opinion (please, this is not sarcasm).

http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=210

Thanks Disguise.

And so were the ones posted in this thread.... it only kinda escalated with the negative reputation AND where Decay changed my words into
"NAZI this and OMG Do it my way" sentences.
Dear Captain ventris...,he can't possibly have imitated me.
He twisted my words and attempts to make this thread a nice and respectfull discussion, So
if one or two of the posters have not learned how to debate, then the next thing i would like to 'whine' about, are those two really up for moderator-ship?
If they can't understand what i suggesting?
"OMG DO IT MY WAY" really means that i force you up to do it my way and my way only.
If you really have read and understand what i tried to explain i was talking about recommendations/suggestions/advices.
And in my poor english i believe that means more like a choice, and not "OMG DO IT MY WAY"
So, he stated his own point of view to my post, so, if he does do that here in this thread, what makes us believe things would go easier or more respectfuller when we take this to PM?
I dont think that will help, Decay, or does it?
Sofar i believe i was one of the people here who acted mature.
If you know what i know, you should know that a child would never admit his or her wrongs.
Instead it wil whine or scream or take actions to get his or her rights nomatter how, to think of slamming with doors and such...
Im not fighting or whining for my rights, in fact, i open admitted that i overreacted pretty much.
I also admitted that i didnt know the very details of the said topic deletion, so i came here to hear things out from the other side.
So you see, im willing to listen and to understand.
That's what a mature-being would do in my point of view.
And all i get here was a negative reputation, for making this debate.
Even if i am or anyone else making a discission whether its based on facts or based on lies or false information or whatsoever,
its up to the moderators to set things right.
Decay, as far as i can see, you indeed did tried to put things right the right way so why was the punishment (the negative rep) good for?
I mean, you put me back on my spot, AND you punish me? That is slapping me twice in the face.
Wasn't slapping me ones in the face not enough for you?
So to come back again to the ' be flexible' part, would it not be better for you to think first before you post or take any action like neg- rep's for any possible outcomes?
Maybe you should take an example to Warton how he explained the things very well.
So did Zap610 and Dusk and many others after that, although to look at YOUR reputation list given by zap:

Code: Select all

Zap610 (2) - Last updated Yesterday, 02:26 AM 
Rating given for Post [url=http://zandronum.com/forum/showthread.php?pid=5384#pid5384]#5384[/url]

Positive (+1): Amen... 

where he praise your twist of the facts, by amen...?
Zap610.... come on.... are you really back him up with such a lame action?

This is all my point of view, and you guys can't get mad on me just because i point out where i see some wrongs in here.
I don't hate you guys, i just give a free advice where i see that things can go better.
Don't do that for me, do it for yourselves, if you want this for yourselves btw.
I have flaws myself too, and many have said where i can improve myself.
Maybe from some of the moderators here in this thread, they might say that i shouldn't "pick on some of them" this way, and actually, i did not to begin with.
I haven't said that the '24 hours and you must have posted screenshots'-rule will fail, i haven't said anything about a change of the said rule, like the way some of you claims i did:

It's a rule. Deal w/it. If you can't understand why such a rule exists, then I hope that one day you will. If this rule makes no sense, how come nobody supports you?

Where did i made you believe that i wouldn't understand the rule or the reason of that rule?
The said rule DOES make sense... it absolutely does.
What is the title of this thread Konda? "Rules revised or flexible actions taken". What did i wrote in my posts?
I was talking about moderators, please be flexible.
And apparently they were in the said topic deletion issue.
Then the discussion was basicly over, right?
Things were set, but suddenly i got 2 neg rep by 2 guys.... so the discussion went on, or at least it did for me.

If this rule makes no sense, how come nobody supports you?

In whatever claims that i make, or will make now or in the future, i have no desire from anyone to support me.
besides in this debate, there isnt any support needed because i did understand the said rule, and i stated already that there is nothing wrong with this one.
The thing that did matter to me, was HOW are the moderators using their possitions and their ability to take actions to something that goes on on this forum.
Will they use the exact 24 hours and then they instantly delete a topic that doesnt meet the rules?
Or are they still flexible, and give the poster still more time to re-edit their posts, to think of 'what day is it-situation'.

Anyways, im pretty tired of explaining myself to people who are twisting my good attempts and make me look like the bad guy here.
If you are incapable of making respectfull debates towards each other you are not fit for the title if i may say.
Yes, i am 40+ of age, and for those who thinks that i dont act that way, look in the mirror, when you have my life experients or more, and you still have the oppertunity to look back to this thread in the future, read and understand how you act like a jerk.
Just a free hint to you: Even if i was a jerk, and comes with a claim that really has no foundation whatsoever, YOU as being a moderator, should show yourselves being better than i am.
And how can you do these things to 1 solve the problem, and 2 get more respect from the claimer (or the trouble maker)?
I dont think its necassery to lay that out for you again, i pretty summed it up, in this thread.

So you'd rather have him clutter the forums and make them look bad?

I make them look bad? Don't make me laugh, They made ME look bad.

Decay Wrote:Negative (-1): Stop complaining, please. It's annoying, and reading your posts give everybody a headache.

Thats pure your problem. I would recommend you to take a painkiller or 2.

Okay, do we now have a full understanding towards each other/ or are we still going to start a troll or flame war?
Good day.

[Wartorn]

Fuck...

How can we have a good behavior if the rules are so hidden? I can't find it!

There's a sticky right here in every forum of Staff Discussion, Off-topic, and Zandronum Talk. I've just reposted them so that they appear in almost every forum now since they are kind of hard to find. I'll see if I can ask Dark-Assassin to implement a big glowing button at the top that says "HEY THESE ARE THE RULES READ THESE".

[Zap610]

That would be cool. I gotta admit I didn't even see them at first... I liked what we did on ST with the "THESE ARE THE RULES IGNORE AT OWN RISK" topic.

@Untrustable
And yes, I did give him rep for that post. He said what many people were thinking, including me. He didn't insult you and I honestly don't see anything wrong with it. I don't want you to think we make this section only for you to be shut away because that's not true. But the feedback does work both ways. We put ourselves out there to be judged by the community and when someone stands up with something to say about it, they do the same. Granted, it still needs to be civil. In the future, you will be met with less hostility from the community if you don't put your assumptions as actual facts. Also, Decay's post was directed towards how he saw YOU acting. And last but not least, your posts are extremely difficult for me to read and understand. I understand there's a language barrier and I respect your determination to convey your ideas, but to me it is very hard to understand and it often leads to mis-communications.

[Wartorn]

To be fair I could technically already do that on registration with giant red bold letters.

[UnTrustable]

@ Zap610... alright.
I'll accept.

...and yes there is a language barrier, that is also another point i like to bring under the attention....
At least try to understand. We dont all master english, and google translater sucks too many times.
Sometimes when i read someones post, with also poor grammer, i automaticly leaves out any possible outcomes that leads to mis-communications...or anything that might 'fire-up' the calm atmosphere.
With that im almost always at the right track with the poster's questions, while at the days on Skulltag, many users
started to yell, to work on the grammer of the said poster...
Maybe thats also a situation to think over some day.
Not the thing that people say "work on your grammer first", but
the fact that sometimes the question is so clear and obvious that dispite the bad grammer, the question is still understandable, and if not, just give multiple answers.
Thats what i always did. It really works.

Well, left to say, i've said what i wanted to say here. The debate from my side ends here.

[Edward-san]

Using exclusively google translator for help doesn't help...
about people which might write something misleading, you can also ask what they meant... it's not bad as you think!

I've heard/read somewhere that learning a different language from native can improve your intelligence drastically... with no exceptions!

[ibm5155]

It´s simple, don´t have anything to show, don´t post, i don´t wanna read just history file, i wanna downlods links or at least screenshots or videos...



off:wow first ban in zandronum i think, someone spam the PM and got banned with the text "skulltag is alive" and you go to a skulltag.ru adress o_O and common, how can a Unregistered guy send a personal mensage? the same guy send the same mensage again ¬¬

[infurnus]

You guys are only going to end up repeating yourselves, if you wish to persist you should really take it to PM. Practice what you preach.

off:wow first ban in zandronum i think, someone spam the PM and got banned with the text "skulltag is alive" and you go to a skulltag.ru adress o_O and common, how can a Unregistered guy send a personal mensage? the same guy send the same mensage again ¬¬

That was an issue that happened a bit ago, I addressed some of it here.

[Guest]

Thank you, Wartorn!

What i ask for is flexibility to those of what we all know, they DO work on projects.

We understand that all you are asking is just a longer delay about deleting a topic, for example, 48 hours instead of 24. But giving privileges is not a wise idea for the staff, it will give them troubles in the community.

If they benefit a particular project in this rule, they would have to do the same for the others, because the authors would start to complain "BAAAAAWWWWW!!! WHY DID YOU GAVE HIM LONGER TIME TO POST SCREENSHOTS AND YOU DELETED MINE IN SO SHORT TIME INTERVAL?!??!?/11?!!?!/1/1 BAAAAAAAWW!!"

What would they say? "Because his/her last project was cooler than ice cold and yours not."?

It's wiser if they manage everyone as equal.

[infurnus]

I hope people realize we're not all always monitoring projects 24/7 and will miss things like that from time to time.

The idea is that if you don't meet the requirements, your thread could be scrapped relatively soon. This is meant to encourage people to have more information about their project, not so we can censor or play favorites.

[Ijon Tichy]

I still have the problem of "my mods aren't screenshotable", with an additional issue - this one mod I made would only make sense previewed through a video, and I can't exactly record right now (neeeeetbooooooook). wat do

[Dark-Assassin]

Perhaps have anyone else who can record do so.

[UnTrustable]

We understand that all you are asking is just a longer delay about deleting a topic, for example, 48 hours instead of 24.

No, Keep the 24 hours in combination with:

I hope people realize we're not all always monitoring projects 24/7 and will miss things like that from time to time.

But if you really want some numbers, just to have an indication of what im preferring: Between the 24 and 30 hours.
But now that i see Infurnus wrote this, i think that this 'delay' already stands.
But this is not the only one, or the only way im asking for flexibility of using the rules/verdicts/punishments.

Allow me to give another example of what i mean by flexibility.
It happened ALOT during the Skulltag era.
A coop game, friendlyfire on:
1) A player uses his/her rocketlauncher to shoot another teammember into the lavapit where it can't get out and eventually dies.
2) A player uses his/her rocketlauncher to shoot at monsters, and another teammember runs in between, so that the rocket kills the player that shoots the rockets.
The one that runs in between won't die, because it is friendly fire.
3) Heretic: A player has collected alot of morphing eggs and morphs players into chickens everytime he/she can.

1 and 2 can happen by accident, but what if they do this deliberately??

What i always do, is to return a favor, in the hopes that they understand that his or hers actions aren't appreciated much, and if that
won't help i quit the game and find myself another server.
If needed i play alone.
If others would do the same, only the player who is ruin the game stays left.
Yes, you can votekick him out of the game, but can you imagen what this person might gonna do?
"Why am i kicked from the game... for no reason !! blah blah blah."

Anyways, i go more further if you guys don't mind, because not all of us would quit the game and find themselves another server.
Alot of players are going to yell, calling names "Why are you shooting me, stupid MF !" things like that.
So, when that happens, other players will notice that, and if the person in action won't calm done at once, HE or SHE will get kicked from the game.
Sometimes it results into a ban and not just a votekick only.

Now, all i ask is, be flexible with the usage of the rules here.
Sure, calling names and such things isn't the way.
Many of the Skulltag members have had suggested to make screenshots and contact the hoster with it.
But how are you suppose to make a screenshot of somebody who shoots you into lava pits all the time....deliberately?
Not all of us can video recording WHEN this happens.

Anyways, in the end only the victim gets punished for calling names and such.
The actual perpetrator goes free, and certainly goes on with its own game....
He or she might do it now more carefully....or continue his/her game the next day.

In the Skultag era many users somehow came and talked to me about it.
Just don't tell me why they just did.
Maybe some where in my SD clan, or maybe they believed that the hoster or moderator didnt listen to their story.
Or maybe they did listen but didnt had the time or energy to get into the situation.
Most of the time the bans were for just 24 or 48 hours, so in fact, those verdicts were pretty much 'flexible' , but still, they punished the wrong person here.
The rule said, dont calling names, so in fact, the rule has been applied the right way, towards the right person, but was forgotten WHY this person started to call names.
That always made me sad in the Skulltag era....
I was waiting untill somebody stood up and dealed with the problem simular like the way i would have tried to solve the problem.
Eventually i lost most contacts with them.
I guess they are no longer on Skulltag, and so no longer at Zandronum.
It would have happen anyways, but the reason of leaving, i wish it could be different, like we could say later: "I had a great time there, for as long as it lasted."

I hope with this wall of text to clarify myself abit more when i talk about being flexible.
Its goes futher than just the forums or the game only.

In MSN there was some dude who i found out later that he 'suffered' ADHD, but i didnt knew that at that time.
And he was alot spamming me. calling me names.
...and i just let him.
First i believed he was angry, and i wanted him to steam off, as long as it would take.
He never confirmed it, but i think he was testing me out.
I think many other people shutted him out of their msn, because of his spamming.
Minutes passed, untill at certain moment i had enough too, so i asked him why he is spamming me this much, and calling me names.
Why did i deserved to receive this from him...
I can't remember every word of what he wrote after that, but in the end (after some weeks) we became
'friends' for 1 or 2 years?
Last year my msn computer pretty much crashed, and i didnt had the time to repair it so quickly... but THAT maybe broke our interaction.

Anyways, i cant tell really but i believe he respected me by reacting towards him quite calmly.
I guess i was one of the people who reacted differently than all the others.
And sure, in time i was hoping that i could make this clear to others.
I mean, if they would react like i did, maybe things would go alot smoother between all of us.
Maybe its my age or my life experients, or maybe its because i have an interest in how someone came to certain conclusions, believes, why they do things the way they do....
I pretty much learned at Skulltag, that i never can change people for the better, if they dont want to.
I pretty much learned how people often responded simular to: "There is nothing wrong with me ! Fuck you !"
And in the time you get older like i am, ONLY THEN you will understand that "There is nothing wrong with me ! Fuck you !" is a typical
childs-thing.
I did this too when i was 13. And why did i do that? because i had the need to proove myself for some reason.
When you are mature, you will figure out one day that you no longer have the need to proove yourselves for whatever reasons.
You have no need to be the best player at all times, you dont have to proove that you are better than others....
When you get older, than that is no longer a priority. (and in general, that is how i figure things out who is mature and who is not)
(And not only that, ....there are many more variables to figure out who stands for what or what to expect from them.)
Recently i got confirmed that some of you automaticly believe that i have to be a troll, as soon as i speak up things like this thread.
Believe whatever you guys want, i know, i can't change you all. Only YOU can.

Don't do the things that i would do to better the community, do the things when you choose it to do.

[ClonedPickle]

I hope with this wall of text to clarify myself abit more when i talk about being flexible.

I don't think it worked, buddy.

[Captain Ventris]

I hear that if you read Untrustable's posts as they are typed, it synchs up with Dark Side of the Moon, topic changes matching song changes and all.